Is Microsoft changing policy on System Builder licensing for Windows 8

[ICIT2LOL]

In a paragraph tacked into the end of last week's announcement of cheap Windows 8 upgrades, Microsoft appears to have made a significant change to its Windows licensing rules. What's really going on?

Read more at:
Is Microsoft changing its policy on System Builder licensing for Windows 8? | ZDNet



I found this in the ZDnet news and if I read it correctly then it means I cannot build a machine and use it myself using an OEM Windows - is this right? If so then I guess there will be a lot of illegal machines out there.

 

[alphanumeric]

It's been like that for a while, other than stopping NewEgg and TigerDirect from selling OEM copies, there isn't much they can do about it. You can't call Microsoft for tech support with OEM versions anyway. It may violate the EULA but they activate and pass WGA. I dare say a some people may contemplate pirating the OS instead of paying almost double the price for a Retail Version. I don't think its hurting them that bad that they want to go out of their way to stop it and piss a lot of people off. All my PC's are running bought online OEM versions, I am my tech support.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yeah I agree alpha I am my tech support - well if you don't count on all the friendly folk in here.

In fact I have never had to contact their tech support apart from a full version Office program I bought ages ago and have had to reinstall because of drive failures.

Frankly I just hate greed whatever form it takes and if you think about it if all Windows OS's were sold at OEM prices or say 30% more rather than have a progressively less affordable system they would still rule the world in fact if that were the case they would have the market. I call it shooting oneself in one's foot really.:sarc:

Of course it would still have to be more for more ie Starter - Ultimate but it ain't going to happen eh?

 

[solarmystic]

Errm.. what i understand from reading the article that Ed Bott's written up is that MS may be actually changing it's EULAs to officially allow hobbyists and enthusiasts to use the OEM system builder's pack for Windows 8 when it heads to RTM.

This following paragraph is what made me understood it that way:-

The burning question is this: Does this post constitute an announcement of an upcoming change in System Builder license terms? At one point, Microsoft officially sanctioned this use of System Builder software. It's possible that this use will be written into the license agreement for Windows 8.

Sanctioned in this case meaning authoritative permission or approval...

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hiyya solar yeah I know but I am more reading between the lines in general and well I have had a bit of a go at 8 when it was up for trial and to be honest I won't be going there anytime just yet well not until 7 dies at least and if what I read is right I'll be long gone

 

[King Arthur]

Given that retail copies of Windows allow transfer of the license between computers, contrary to the OEM license, that increased price is worth the cost to some people. I know I went for the retail version of Windows 7 precisely because of the OEM limitations in this regard.

I'd have done the same for my other Windows XP computer as well but all that were available at the time were OEM copies (I got it right before XP sales were "officially" closed) and I've contemplated ever since what to do if the mobo in that thing were to die (and undoubtedly it will, eventually).

 

[SIW2]

Just had a look at that.

I would imagine they didn't want businesses doing it.

Makes sense to change it:

Looking round the net nobody seems to pay any attention to it anyhow. MS are not going to try and enforce it because they seem like some giant corporate bully - I don't think they could enforce that kind of restrictive practice in Europe anyhow.

Seems to me the reason for changing it now is simple:

They want as many as possible to be running win8 - they don't really care how little you paid for it as long as you have it.


Win8 is a very hard sell for them, it is very unpopular among those who have tried it.

The public market might not be so tough - the average user just gets whatever comes on a machine and puts up with it.

 

[ripbox]

To obtain a legal as far as i was aware to obtain an OEM copy you have to buy a piece of hardware but this said you don't actually have to install it this can be anything like a cable for 50p
As far as i can see, a simple work around is to get a an invoice from the Retailer showing that you acted legitimately for the fact that a system build does not have to consist of all new parts
Maybe im wrong however as i see it is perfectly legitimate

If in the case of the quotation regarding internal workshops then you will just need to create an invoice of £0 per build this way you will have passed the computer on to the 3rd party / end user

Edit: i cant help but feel they are scared that 8 will be another failed OS like Vista thus want to maximise profit ready for 9

 

[alphanumeric]

I think they sell enough Retail copies at Staples and FutureShope that its not that big a deal for them anyway. Its too hard to enforce anyway. Around here, the only way to get an OEM copy is to buy online. Anybody walking into a Retail shop has to buy a Retail copy. I bought OEM because it was a lot cheaper than the Retail Version. And also because I'm a tech enthusiast that builds his own desktops. I can buy 2 OEM versions for the price of 1 Retail and not worry about transferring it to another PC. At one time you actually had to buy a motherboard or other hardware with an OEM version. OnLine retailers wouldn't sell you OEM install media all by itself, siteing the EULA as the reason.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

To obtain a legal as far as i was aware to obtain an OEM copy you have to buy a piece of hardware but this said you don't actually have to install it this can be anything like a cable for 50p
As far as i can see, a simple work around is to get a an invoice from the Retailer showing that you acted legitimately for the fact that a system build does not have to consist of all new parts
Maybe im wrong however as i see it is perfectly legitimate

If in the case of the quotation regarding internal workshops then you will just need to create an invoice of £0 per build this way you will have passed the computer on to the 3rd party / end user

Edit: i cant help but feel they are scared that 8 will be another failed OS like Vista thus want to maximise profit ready for 9

Yeah this what was my impression too as I have refurbished a few machines for myself and others by just adding say a new or "refurbished" (wiped) HDD and say upping the RAM and then selling them on for just the cost of the replacement parts to folks I know that cannot afford a new machine or even at all and the cost to me is negligible and well most of the less fortunate are more than willing to lay out $100 - the cost of an OEM for me.
Surely anyone including Microsoft wouldn't begrudge them that - would they?

 

[windude99]

Will this mean that they will change the Windows 7 system builder licensing too? If so, I can use my system builder license that I have sitting around that is illegal to use right now
It's funny that Microsoft tells us that it's illegal to use those, but I can buy a copy from Amazon and they don't try to verify that I am not an end user and I can install it on one of my pcs and it will activate. You can tell they don't enforce it.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

I think they sell enough Retail copies at Staples and FutureShope that its not that big a deal for them anyway. Its too hard to enforce anyway. Around here, the only way to get an OEM copy is to buy online. Anybody walking into a Retail shop has to buy a Retail copy. I bought OEM because it was a lot cheaper than the Retail Version. And also because I'm a tech enthusiast that builds his own desktops. I can buy 2 OEM versions for the price of 1 Retail and not worry about transferring it to another PC. At one time you actually had to buy a motherboard or other hardware with an OEM version. OnLine retailers wouldn't sell you OEM install media all by itself, siteing the EULA as the reason.

Hum I wonder how much you are paying for your OEM's then cos down here I can get about two and a half OEM's for the price of the retail price. Mind you the local dealer does sell the OEM at double online price so he is shooting himself in the foot eh? for the extra $40 you get the retail

I was thinking too that I can understand the big deal when things got going with the software but in my mind anyone with an ounce of sense will sell potatoes for $2 a pound and sell twice the amount rather than selling them at $3 a pound and sell less - or send someone elsewhere. Now that is twice the turn over and a lot more people would be happier and more likely to buy Microsoft products than others or am I dreaming it all up?

 

[windude99]

I have two questions:
1. Does this mean that the Windows 7 System Builder is legal to use now?

2. Is it ok for me to use this on a prebuilt system? I have an old Dell desktop that can run Windows 7 and i have one of these packs for it, but until now it's been illegal for me to use it on that system.

 

[alphanumeric]

@ICit2lol If I bought Retail locally its probably 4 times an OEM bought online, even with shipping costs. I didn't look it up but it likely is closer to 2.5 or 3 times the price to buy Retail over OEM at the same online vender. I can't remember if I bought any hardware on the same order but I don't believe it was a requirement to get an OEM copy.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

@ICit2lol If I bought Retail locally its probably 4 times an OEM bought online, even with shipping costs. I didn't look it up but it likely is closer to 2.5 or 3 times the price to buy Retail over OEM at the same online vender. I can't remember if I bought any hardware on the same order but I don't believe it was a requirement to get an OEM copy.

Hum and heres me thinking it was cheaper stateside. My net price is $99 + 12 (but I usually am ordering a heap of stuff with it) and the local retail for Home Pre is $249 so it just goes to prove in a way that there is obviously rules governing where one buys the software!

It truly doesn't make sense because US prices for CPU's mobo's etc is quite a but cheaper than down here where we are usually 10- 15% more expensive for the hardware.

 

[Hopalong X]

Newegg

W7 Pro SP1 32 or 64bit $140 OEM
W7 Pro SP1 retail $250

They also have builder 3 packs $400. So you save $20. Newegg has the OEM's for $110 several times a year so catch it on sale.

 

[alphanumeric]

The way I look at it is, if I can buy Ultimate OEM for about the same price as Home Premium Retail, I'll buy Ultimate OEM.

 

[MagusMagnus]

I was not too thrilled to discover that unlike XP and earlier, 7 now defines a "computer" by:

4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION.
Activation associates the use of the software with a specific computer. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the computer.

I had my primary drive fail on me last year on my prebuilt (OEM) system. Knowing that was a simple replacement, I'd ordered my drive, installed it and went to load back my factory recovery media. Tried all three of the ones I'd made (previously working before the drive died), none of them worked. Then I ordered a set from my system's manufacturer, loaded it up - and it failed again, and the same thing with the second manufacturer set - each time, it just kept telling me it was not compatible with my system's hardware (ding, ding, ding - read Section 4 again, that's why). Called up a computer shop, told them what was happening and they'd told me they had NEVER had this problem, that they reloaded those same factory image media back onto systems all of the time after hardware changes and so that they couldn't help me.

And Microsoft and my system's manufacturer were, of course, of NO assistance whatsoever with this problem I had either. I've heard many people say all you need to do is to call up Microsfot to get around that problem, but I tried and it didn't happen.

So, I went out and begrudgingly bought a RTM copy of my OS, loaded it, installed it - and what do you know? It worked. So... what this basically means is that hardware changes are now NOT only limited to just the motherboard (as with XP and earlier), but EVERYTHING according to 7 and I presume also 8.

Seems to me, OEM is just not be the way to go anymore unless you can miraculously be assured NONE of your system's hardware will be failing on you. Fat chance of that. IMO, system manufacturers should just drop OEM altogether if this is the kind of 'cute' stuff Microsoft is going to be pulling from now on - let us buy the system, and load our own choice of software. No sense in forcing us to purchase a POS OEM software at $100 in the total system cost that is not going to deliver our money's worth (system was barely approaching 2 years when the drive failed and this BS came to light - so not my money's worth).

Anyway, just saying. Be very, very, very weary of the OEM versions. You'd be better off shelling out that extra $60-$120 on a RTM straightaway, unless of course you don't mind spending $100 on the OEM with your system and THEN the full nelson for RTM when something takes a dump on you later on.

Two cents, for whatever they're worth.

I'm never going with OEM again, building my own systems from now on too (yeah, even willing to say goodbye to mobile systems just to avoid this headache from now on as well).

 

[alphanumeric]

@MagusMagnus There is a big difference between preinstalled OEM versions and System Builder OEM installs.
Preinstalled OEM versions use SLP and don't activate online. They activate against a SLIC table in the motherboard BIOS. As far as I know you can replace any piece of hardware you want except the motherboard and not effect Activation. You can even replace the motherboard provided its an exact match and has the required SLIC table in the BIOS.
OEM system builder copies activate online and keep a hash of the hardware installed on. Hardware upgrades and replacements are allowed. I've swapped hard drives going from IDE to SATA on my system and online activation was no problem. I've upgraded my CPU, RAM, and added a dedicated Video card without having to reactivate. I even swapped my ASUS M2N68 motherboard with a M4N68 and didn't have to reinstall or reactivate.
I have no idea why your hard drive swap messed things up so bad, very unfortunate to say the least.

 

[Bertison]

Currently in the UK, at Play.com, a FULL RETAIL copy of Win7/64 HP is available for £59:99. It is advertised as 'Not in original packaging' and 'from a Windows software distributor' (Spelled "distributer").
I know nothing more about the product, except that I have never had a problem with a Play.com order.

At Amazon UK:
Win7/64 HP Full Retail 1 user - £109:99 Win7/64 HP OEM 1 user - £69:99
XP/Vista upgrade 3 users -£141:00 XP/Vista upgrade 1 user - £96:88

My first Windows O/S was 3.1, 95, then 98. I had Full versions of each and I still have the 98 SE, which I have kept for a retro project I have in mind.

When I went for XP, I had hit a bad patch, becoming disabled and out of work, so went OEM. I believe that I installed that OEM copy in at least 5 different machines, one of which is still working at my son's house. However, I bought Full retail of Win7/64 HP, which is what I run now. I was lucky enough 3 years ago, to obtain a (correctly packaged, genuine) O/S at £70 or so. I will NOT go down the Win8 route; I don't have a Smart phone or tablet, just a PC and the wife's lappy. I don't criticise anyone who does: we all pay for what we want and we all compute in different ways. But as long as I can afford to, I will buy a Full Retail copy of whichever Windows I want, before I fall off my perch and go before the Ultimate IT Manager.