Is Microsoft changing policy on System Builder licensing for Windows 8

[z3r010]

I've always bought OEM's for my home built systems.....there ain't no way I'm paying twice the price for a retail copy.

 

[rvbfan]

N/M

 

[pparks1]

The way I look at it is, if I can buy Ultimate OEM for about the same price as Home Premium Retail, I'll buy Ultimate OEM.

Depends, if you need the features and whether you want to move it to another machine. The OEM of Windows 7 Home Premium at NewEgg today is $99, and Windows 7 Ultimate is $189. So, if say you had a desktop and a laptop, you could nearly buy 2 OEM copies of 7 Home Premium for the same price as 1 Ultimate.

Previously with Windows 7, MS said they didn't want home hobbyists using the the OEM license. It was intended for sale to system builders only who were going to sell the computer to an "unrelated" 3rd party. As is the case with OEM, the reseller provides the end user with support, not Microsoft.

MS took no steps to enforce this and quietly looked the other way. If people bought an OEM rather than pirating it, it was a win for MS.

OEM licenses can be great for the type of person who builds a machine and sticks with it for a long time. However, if you like to upgrade your mobo, CPU and such at a regular pace, you may find a retail license to be a better fit as technically, in the eyes of MS, you have changed computers...and an OEM license cannot be moved.

 

[MagusMagnus]

There is a big difference between preinstalled OEM versions and System Builder OEM installs.
Preinstalled OEM versions use SLP and don't activate online. They activate against a SLIC table in the motherboard BIOS. As far as I know you can replace any piece of hardware you want except the motherboard and not effect Activation. You can even replace the motherboard provided its an exact match and has the required SLIC table in the BIOS.
OEM system builder copies activate online and keep a hash of the hardware installed on. Hardware upgrades and replacements are allowed. I've swapped hard drives going from IDE to SATA on my system and online activation was no problem. I've upgraded my CPU, RAM, and added a dedicated Video card without having to reactivate. I even swapped my ASUS M2N68 motherboard with a M4N68 and didn't have to reinstall or reactivate.
I have no idea why your hard drive swap messed things up so bad, very unfortunate to say the least.

Yup, I know that - should never have happened, but it did and I do highly suspect it is because of some kind of a change on Microsoft's end in the 7 EULA under that section 4. It is either that or the master image for my entire system's line is botched and everyone having this specific system will all be screwed over soon enough.

But hey, at least I did learn one thing first-hand... Microsoft is virtually useless as far as mere questions are concerned when you really need to get to the bottom of something to which the answers simply are not online or in some "knowledge base"... guess they simply don't care anymore. Sure seems that's what it boils down too. :huh:

 

[alphanumeric]

@MagusMagnus, that's the thing with OEM versions, no live tech support from Microsoft. You only get that with Retail versions. You have to call the manufacturer of the PC. My guess is there was something in the Boot sector of the original hard drive that the recovery disks looked for. That or the recovery procedure was poorly implemented.

 

[MagusMagnus]

I realize that. But when you can't talk to MS OR the system's manufacturer, there's a huge problem there. Point of fact, the system manufacturers wouldn't even know the first damn thing about Microsoft's programming or what the problem is with THEIR software in the first place. So I suppose those of us lucky enough to encounter this are just SOL and shafted. Beautiful.

I'm just saying, that's crap. There should at LEAST be some form of open line of communication with the actual software maker to inform them of the problem so they can maybe give two squirts to address it for one and all at some point, if not personally 1-to-1 as with the RTM goody-goodies. Because right now, the only solution is to just run out and spend more money on something you'd already bought (OEM, RTM - don't care, bought it with the system, same system, same OS, it should bloody well continue to work despite the most common hardware replacement being done on it. It's bordering on if not totally outright theft on somebody's behalf that this is happening. I want my $100 back or an equivalent OEM; fat chance, but in a perfect world... I'd not have been robbed by such means and that's exactly how I feel about it: I was robbed. <$100 and nothing for it).

Regardless, I stand by what I've said for the benefit of all: beware of the OEM.


Also, I hope you were not implying that anyone could possibly botch the process of feeding the optical drive the recovery disks and waiting for the setup to finish... I'd say that's an impossibility, myself. Especially seeing as I did it three times with my own sets (confirmed working previously to the hardware change), twice again with the ones directly from the manufacturer. But again, wasn't the point - the whole point of me mentioning all of that, was:

Beware of the OEM. Not a great loss if the claims in this article are true as far as I am concerned.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

I can't understand why all the difference in pricing except that the outlets are putting different mark ups on the OEM and the US prices are outrageous compared to here and as I mentioned before the hardware side of things US prices are flogging th crap out of what we pay.


Plus in my mind those system builders should at least supply a rescue disk or even a copy of the OEM that came with the machine instead of all that hassle getting it fixed.

Well you know what they say absolute power corrupts but I reckon money is a nose length behind. I just feel for those who just would like a computer and are pulled up by ridiculous and greedy pricing.

As for the legalities well if you have a couple of years to work through them then you are a better man than me Gunga Din!

 

[alphanumeric]

My "or the recovery procedure was poorly implemented." comment was meant to imply that the OEM botched the original procedure, not the user.

 

[mjf]

This has been discussed a number of times on this forum. According to the last EULA I read you need to build a machine and install the OEM OS in a prescribed way then on sell it.
I think you can legally get around these silly/unfair restrictions. I understand MS introduced the restrictions with W7 (or was it VISTA?). The OEM OS is tied to the Motherboard and in Australia the seller of the OEM OS has to acknowledge that you have purchased sufficient components to prove it is a new build. Around ~$100 is a fair price given the non portable restrictions.

 

[MagusMagnus]

My "or the recovery procedure was poorly implemented." comment was meant to imply that the OEM botched the original procedure, not the user.

Ah, it is so hard to discern some things through text lol. Thanks for clarifying, and perhaps. Something is definitely amiss, big time. Oh well, spilled milk now I guess. But I'm probably just going to start dual-booting after I build my own systems from now on. Windows for gaming, Linux for everything else. Should work, no great loss to lose a few game files you already have saved elsewhere. Its another thing entirely to lose the whole dang OS, manufacturer drivers and applications -things they don't totally provide for download for just such event as I had- and everything else with it (I'm just thankful I had the sense to make a complete backup of JUST the data instead of another restore image otherwise I'd have been totally screwed, 10 years of data by and large would have been gone {I now make very frequent backups, learned my lesson}).

Good talk.

 

[neo101]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

 

[alphanumeric]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

You can do that with some versions of Microsoft Office but not with Windows. Retail versions of Windows can only be activated on one PC at a time.

 

[M1GU31]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

You need those keys that are for like bussiness,like the ones the school use.My old high school last year when I was in my tech class used a copy of windows 7 enterprise that could be activated on multiple machines but you needed to buy that special lisence and I forgot how many pcs you could activate it on but it also had a limit but it was really big to put on all the schools pcs.

 

[neo101]

You are right guys - it was office I was thinking of for the laptop!

I knew I read you could install 7 twice but only like this >

"you can install one more copy of Windows 7 on the same licensed machine in a virtual machine. However, it has to be on the same computer."

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

You need those keys that are for like bussiness,like the ones the school use.My old high school last year when I was in my tech class used a copy of windows 7 enterprise that could be activated on multiple machines but you needed to buy that special lisence and I forgot how many pcs you could activate it on but it also had a limit but it was really big to put on all the schools pcs.

Well you are right here MIG companies can do just this too and if the company agrees to take part in the development of the software by whatever means I am not sure of perhaps they employ tech fellows who do just that - they get the licence for a whole heap cheaper than retail.

Plus the employees are entitled to buy a "chunk" of that licence for a minimal amount - I heard one fellow out here who bragged about getting the Ultimate for $20 to use on his own machine.

Now it is stuff like that gets me back up because it is usually folks on fairly good salaries who are able not only to do that but are more than able to pay for the retail we have to pay for

What more galling is that Microsoft lets this go on!

 

[alphanumeric]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

You need those keys that are for like bussiness,like the ones the school use.My old high school last year when I was in my tech class used a copy of windows 7 enterprise that could be activated on multiple machines but you needed to buy that special lisence and I forgot how many pcs you could activate it on but it also had a limit but it was really big to put on all the schools pcs.

Windows 7 Enterprise = Volume License = activation on more than one PC with the same Product Code. You buy as many Licenses as you need from Microsoft and use the one product code they give you. MSDN and TechNet codes work in a similar manner with a preset number of allowed installs etc.

 

[alphanumeric]

Check this out.
Windows 8 May Not be Sold Solo | PCWorld

 

[pparks1]

Just to add to the discussion

If you buy a full retail box version (I am thinking 7 Ultimate) you can
1. Use it on one pc at a time and any you build in future
2. Install it and use it on any Laptop you buy
(using both PC+Lappy installs at the same time)

So if you also have a laptop in da house - it halves the cost of a retail box

You need those keys that are for like bussiness,like the ones the school use.My old high school last year when I was in my tech class used a copy of windows 7 enterprise that could be activated on multiple machines but you needed to buy that special lisence and I forgot how many pcs you could activate it on but it also had a limit but it was really big to put on all the schools pcs.

Well you are right here MIG companies can do just this too and if the company agrees to take part in the development of the software by whatever means I am not sure of perhaps they employ tech fellows who do just that - they get the licence for a whole heap cheaper than retail.
Plus the employees are entitled to buy a "chunk" of that licence for a minimal amount - I heard one fellow out here who bragged about getting the Ultimate for $20 to use on his own machine.

Companies who utilize the volume license copies of Windows are not entitled to send copies of licenses home with their employees, nor can the employees buy a volume license key from the company for a reduced fee. In most of these cases, a tech employee (IT Staff, Help Desk), will get their hands on the volume license key and will simply take it home (aka "steal it") for their own personal use.

The only exception to this that I know of, is the Microsoft Home Use Program, which allows companies who maintain an enterprise agreement with software assurance to provide a download link and code to employees to purchase a copy of Microsoft Office for their home computers at a very heavily discounted price ($9.95 or $19.95 usually). The caveat here is that if the enterprise agreement ever expires, or the employee is no longer employed by the company, they are supposed to discontinue the use of that software. If the enterprise agreement is allowed to expire, future employees will not be able to hit the website and link for the download.

Windows 7 Enterprise = Volume License = activation on more than one PC with the same Product Code. You buy as many Licenses as you need from Microsoft and use the one product code they give you. MSDN and TechNet codes work in a similar manner with a preset number of allowed installs etc.

In an enterprise environment, businesses either get a KMS key (Key management server). They activate that key on that server, and as long as they have a minimum of 25 clients, they can activate that server and it's responsible for activating and handling the repeated check-ins from the clients that were previously activated. The other option is a MAK key (Multiple Activation key), which they can use to activate X # of client machines without having to deploy and maintain a KMS server.

 

[King Arthur]

Check this out.
Windows 8 May Not be Sold Solo | PCWorld

Granted that I'm still not going to buy Windows 8 even if the world were to come to a screeching halt, I still can't help but go WTF at this piece of information.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Check this out.
Windows 8 May Not be Sold Solo | PCWorld

Granted that I'm still not going to buy Windows 8 even if the world were to come to a screeching halt, I still can't help but go WTF at this piece of information.

Well I am with you KA but wouldn't put it quite like that - I have had a go with it (8) and look 7 is so easy to use why the fuss?