Windows 8: Ready, set, preorder

[Night Hawk]

:info:
Is there an actual Classic Shell graphical user interface in the Pro package?

The Classic Shell program people will be heard mentioning is an open source addong from sorceforge.net in order to bring back the Start menu and Programs. The option also sees the Settings>Control Panel item as you would in 7 while in 8 you would find the CP displayed in a Windows Explorer window or by clicking the CP Home link after a right click on the desktop to bring up the Personalization screen.

There's no fanfare since 8 is coming over like a bombshell and everyone is simply taking cover! The way MS went about stripping things away including a rational desktop to slap a new touchscreen look with limited options is a major "Turn You Off" unlike the anticipation most had felt for 7! 8 has been nothing but a big letdowm for most!

Windows 7 on the other hand proved to be a major "Turn You on!" following the bad rep Vista received where people were looking for something new and better found with 7. MS went astray however taking off in some other Fruit company/Googlitis delusional envy wondering from what works into something else in order to push their new line of Surface Tablets and W8 Phones leaving the desktop editions with some derived but limited form of the RT gui and calling it a new version?

 

[Layback Bear]

I think Windows 8 will go over well for the crowd it is intended to please. Ipads,tablets, poke and drag people that Apple and Mac have been catering to for a long time. Microsoft has been wanting a big bite out of the apple for a long time.

 

[Dave76]

It's getting busy at Eight Forums but, not like it was with Win7.
This one is going to be slower to catch on.

 

[Night Hawk]

That's an understatement! The anticipation for a new version "That Works" saw the 7 blossoming! The way MS tore up the Windows OS to slap the RT edition's gui on a desktop release is another story where many are simply tossing the towel at 8! These are the hard facts.

Someone over at 8F was remarking about MS not being able to use a mobile gui on the desktop trying to make it a univeral interface doesn't work across the various platforms. The Fruit company on the other hand has had too many years at manipulation and knows how to bridge the gaps.

What I can frown at is hearing how 8 is so much better then 7 from some while finding everything has been working on 7 but too often not on 8! What does that sum up in a nutshell? One OS will not work for everyone!

 

[Dave76]

Don't know why you had trouble, read the posts at EF, haven't seen any similar issues.

If you just get past the start screen and stay in the desktop it's not bad. The occasional visit to the start screen isn't bad after you set it up how you like, same (for me) with all Windows versions.

I truly believe everyone should use the OS they like best.

 

[Colonel Travis]

If you just get past the start screen and stay in the desktop it's not bad.

And then the reason for getting 8 is, what, better handling of printer drivers?

 

[Dave76]

It does actually supply good printer drivers, I don't have to DL the terrible HP drivers.

This has been gone over enough in EF.
I know you don't like Win8, that's ok with me, also don't feel I could persuade you so let's just leave it at that.
Run what you like, it's all good.

 

[Night Hawk]

Presently just about everything I will ever need is already running on 7. And 7 is the version that has proven itself time and again to be the best suited for a variety of reasons.

While knowing the next to come to follow would automatically be a hard sell MS has more or less gone out on a limb with 8 in not the RT gui tossed on the desktop edition but the new version also sees a number of compatibility issues more and more are now starting to report. And one other thing to note as to what those problems were is when setting up a dual boot of 7 with 8. Here's the catch.

With the CP(Customer Preview) the entry for 8 was added into the 7 BCD but the need to boot from the 8 dvd made up to repair the mbr for 8 was to be expected. Both seem to load normally as any other dual boot would have been. XP/7, Vista/7, etc. But when using the PC Refresh option now seen with 8 without any option for repair installs notice like an Upgrade to Repair install a fresh copy of 8 automatically added 7 into the RP's(Release Preview) install's boot options resulting in numerous drive errors when booting into 7 from there!

Subsequently both versions crashed upon reaching the desktop after a short period of time where nothing worked since the desktop of each was frozen solid! The Disk Check tool was able to bail 7 out of that one. But when the slightly overdue clean install of 7 went on and the drive modes were changed from Native ide to AHCI 7 reactied instantly with the fast restart finishing the change. The RP on the other hand would no longer load up!

As for programs forget DX 9 since it is now too old and was never expected to go onto the new versions once DX10 and DX11 followed in Vista and 7. But 9c still would go on the two newer from XP and run a good number of old game titles without OpenGL issues as one software dilemna. Steam? Well those titles run here saw no problems and one 2001 game title Return to CastleWolfenstein still seems to be a surviver while other titles were now out.

Other complaints surround MS Office products and other desktop apps that simply won't run. Of course this has been a problem with each newer version to come along since Legacy days where new version means investment in new softwares if not newer versions of the same programs once available.

 

[PaulGo]

Windows 8 adoption rate lags early Windows 7 adoptions by a five-to-one margin

The early results for Windows 8 adoptions likely won't please Microsoft: Net Applications reports that only 0.45% of Windows computers in October used Windows 8. That compares to a much higher adoption rate of 2.33% for Windows 7 during its October launch three years ago.

...
Even more worrisome for Computerworld is that Windows 8 may even be lagging behind the adoption rate of the much-maligned Windows Vista. Keizer notes: Windows 8 will have to hustle to match the uptake of Windows Vista. That problem-plagued edition accounted for 1% of all copies of Windows after its first full month. To equal that, Windows 8 will have to more than double its share during November.
Windows 8 adoption rate lags early Windows 7 adoptions by a five-to-one margin | Computerworld Blogs

 

[Night Hawk]

Why am I not surprised in the least?! In a way that might be seen as a little rotten for a statement while the majority of users have had the same feelings about the new version being a large "disappointment" rather then something to look forward to.

What the author there mistated was the part of "problem plagued" Vista? Two main problems one being seen only with the 64bit Windows V were evident. When going to install the 64bit Vista with more then 2gb of memory installed you ended up needing to remove all but 2gb due to an installation issue.

For the 32bit as well as 64bit the actual total amount of memory installed when going with 4gb or more wasn't being reported until SP1 was out. Besides being a larger then XP version and MS understating the actual minimum system specs required a fault of their own to tickle the OEMs a bit to get away with less and older hardwares the older version was generally more stable and secure then XP ever though of being.

For 8 however most of us already know the main reason why there would be a slump on sales while 7 was an instant success story from the get go! 7 was well thought out while MS has gone astray to pursue the Tablet and mobile markets. Should i say again that 8 is the desktop edition of the new Windows RT for Surface Tablet?!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
actually having SEEN and TRIED a surface RT tablet I was reasonably impressed with it (and I'm not a tablet lover).

Once you start adding things like internal storage cards, a USB port (the new Ms PRO tablet has a nice fast USB3 Port too) you can really do a lot of things you thought only a "Computer" could do.

Having physically TOUCHED and TRIED one of these I've changed my whole idea about tablets etc. - The thing is they have to be decently powered, be light and thin and be USEABLE for more than just a few emails, netsurfing or being on "Farce book" or twitter etc.

The Pro tablet I suspect will be HUGELY popular when it appears in January 2013 or so -- W8 works just fine on this type of device.

Both the Ms tablets do much more than an Ipad and I'm looking forward to the PRO version.

I'd still keep the laptop for Photoshop etc. though.

Ms's sales of the RT tablet have already beaten expectations even in these recessionary times -- -- that will make the success of the PRO tablet guranteed.

Don't sell your Ms stock just yet -- if people like me actually LIKE these new devices (and I was always a hater of the original tablet form like the Ipad's etc ) then you can bet 100,000's of other will like them too.

Only if they are priced too high will Ms slip up with these -- even then you'll always find discounters who will unload stocks at a very much reduced price if they fail to sell at the original price.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[geeve420]

*This entire post is my opinion based on what I have experienced, take it for what it is*

I threw a fit about 8 in previous posts, but I will say this, I preordered last night and installed. I had redownloaded the developers preview and used it with an open mind for a month prior. I have to admit, once I figured out some things, I really like it! It is worth the $40 to upgrade.

The pros so far that I have had are: Dual monitor support is very good so far, My ATI HD 4350 has no real driver support from ATI, however the upgrade carried it over (didn't like the catalyst control center though) When I opened steam and started Skyrim it reevaluated my hardware and I can now play at medium setting instead of low setting I like the metro UI once I pinned all the stuff i use to it, and set my weather up and added some apps (Wikipedia, eBay, Hulu) set my mail up. It's all one click away. Imgburn, DVDfab, Handbrake, Sonar DAW, VST effects (including wrapper) all got carried over and work without a hitch. I also like that if you need to find something, just start typing (very Linux way of doing things)

The cons so far that I have had are teaching my wife how to use the apps (I had to Google how to close them myself), the learning curve is a little steep for her, but as someone who uses Unity and gnome shell the transition wasn't terrible.

There are some interface things I don't care for but all in all it really isn't that bad. I will probably buy two more upgrades before January 31st when the deal ends, one for her laptop and one to have as a spare.

I will say this much, the thing that really pushed me to try again is that my computer repair business will start seeing more W8 machines, I figured I better know how to use it and fix it but like I said, so far I am actually really liking it.

*This entire post was my opinion based on what I have experienced, take it for what it is*

Geeve

 

[Night Hawk]

I ran the CCC here without any issues what so ever on both the CP and RP and ran Steam at full steam ahead. The gaming with Steam was never any problem while other older titles where DX 9c may be required as well as OpenGL errors on the 32bit but not 64bit 8 are solved by the use of 7 ATI drivers.

It was usually OpenGL not so much the need for the older DX while some old games need at least those if not the older DX 7 or 8 elements which none with go on 8. Those elements are simply going to be past their time.

As far as what 8 is OS wise you are likely to find the Surface Tablets are well advanced over older devices where 7 was embedded and offered limited options! You can't even do much on FaceBook with a Sylvania netbook seeing 7 embedded on that which made it awkward for doing other things like online banking due to not offering any java support for the form of IE that uses. You can go page to page on the web but not much of anything else!

The Surface Tablets do not run 8 there as one thing to note but the Windows RT version. The same gui is what is the thing placed on what would have normally the next desktop release of Windows. Unfortunately all the focus went to the Surface products while the desktop users are the one disapponted overall.

 

[andyparks]

 

[python134r]

I been using it, for now, to get familiar with it but will keep Win 7 as my main OS for now....

 

[Night Hawk]

I been using it, for now, to get familiar with it but will keep Win 7 as my main OS for now....

Why is it I don't blame you one bit?! I was forced to dump the RP install on the second OS drive I use for testing here and ended up sticking Linux Mint Debian. I would have considered a dual boot until running into all the RP problems having 8 on as the second to main Windows.

Since I have the distro on a flash drive and the bulk of the drive itself used for 7 system images I now will be looking at a completely different OS there as one more replacement. Zorin OS - Home

Supposedly this particular distro acts more like 7 as far as Linux is concerned and comes in different fUltimate, Business, Multimedia, and Gaming editions with a load of it's own preinstalled apps for each flavor. That runs about $13US plus change for a donation when converting the currency.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
the Surface RT runs the ARM version of Windows 8 but the PRO will run the full W8 version where you can install "Classical Windows " applications.

For using a touch screen with a LARGE external monitor connected W8 is fine -- for normal Desktops doing complex real productive work some people will quite reasonably want to stay with W7.

Ms Office is my really must have app as is Photoshop. The Gimp and Libre Office - good though they are don't come anywhere near to the functionality I need that the Ms and Adobe producst give me.

I use a Linux SUSE system running a a Virtual Windows 2003 server under vmware (Linux version) for Adobe and Ms office -- had too many problems with Windows 2012 server (based on W8) to use that. From a W7 laptop I just RDP to the W2003 Virtual server which also handles all the printing (have some OLD but expensive devices like an HP plotter which will ONLY run on XP or earlier)..

I've definitely found the Surf. RT tablet OK -- but will wait for the PRO if the price is right and use that instead of the laptop -- RDP to VPN / remote server is just fine.

I agree on a desktop I don't like the W8 interface -- but it's 100% OK on a tablet --quite like it on that type of device.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

The main problem is not from seeing the RT gui on the desktop edition as far as seeing touchscreen support added further in 8 for those that would use either touchscreen at the desk(not so many) or a large presentation screen(watch some tv shows like NCIS: LA) but it's not a desktop gui to start with! It belongs on the Surface Tablet and isn't actually suitable for seeing touchscreen support added further for the 8 desktop model.

MS didn't bother to work out the details for the next major desktop release with "options"! They redid the taskmanager which boosted the appearance while stuffing the tablet form of gui on rather then coming up with a new 8 looking desktop that works as a desktop. A revamped taskbar with a new twist as well as a new Windows theme and allowing you to customize things like 3D objects being the borders on winodows, effects, etc. is lacking as well as stripping out the media options!

Overall you may paying less but also getting less besides the look for the taskmanager and new Lock screen and the one other MS SE renamed to WDefender for system protection at the cost of other things. I knew while testing 7 that I would likely dual boot 7 with the next to come until trying that with the RP as I was saying.

Software issues on top of the mix is another stumbling block that some are running into as well. Everything runs on 7 but some will not on 8 being a familiar problem seen in the past as far as simply being a newer version as far as compatibility.

What that means as anyone who dual boots two versions will say is that you end up still having to boot into the older to run things that won't run on the newer! All too familiar until the 32bit 7 was different as for being able to run more old stuff that wouldn't even go on the 32bit Vista. That's where Vista and 8 have something else in common!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
software issues always occur with updates whether it's the OS or an application.

Where necessary I'd recommend running one or other OS as a Virtual Machine --todays hardware - even on modest laptops is perfectly capable of running a single VM at almost native speed. Vmware in particular has hugely improved the virtual BIOS --graphics and DVD playing for example work fine on a VM now and the VM can run in the background as well so users don't even need an account on the host to access it.

I concur though that some sort of "Tweaking" the Win8 desktop so it works better for those who want to run a desktop OS can do it properly without going throgh hoops and rings trying to pick their way through zillions of Tiles on the W8 start screen while making some type of orderly arrangement of the applications they want to run.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

Well you have to remember when on a tablet you simply swipe the screen to move from one screen full to another in one quick stroke! On a desktop however you have to click on the scroll bar arrow and wait as it moves at a much slower pace making the Start screen mostly obsolete even having a good number of programs on.

The end result is too much screen clutter for the extra icon with each program besides the main executable shortcut you would expect to find in the Start>Programs folder. Organizing and catagory options offer a degree of help however.

As far as VMs the Customer Preview went right onto VM Player 4.0.1 but wouldn't connect online. That was released in Dec. 2011. In Feb. 2012 two months later the 4.0.2 cleaned that problem right up. The CP wouldn't go the Oracle VitualBox however.

The Release Preview then refused to iinstall on VM Player at all while it went onto the latest VBox version seen in June. For desktop apps and browsing a VM for that with anything. And why the RP is stll kept on as a reference install. For just about most all gaming you can generally rule that out especially for those who depend on VPU power and higher end graphics since you are limited while there has been some recent improvement with a 512mb increase seen rather then the old 128mb AGP max.