Don't waste your money on Ultimate

[lostsoul62]

If you just speak English and want to use Ultimate then buy or build a new computer because Ultimate office multi languages but most of us just won't ever use it and then there is BitLocker which secures your Hard Drive but you better have a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 1.2 chip in your computer in order to use it. I have a 16 month old Computer and I went in my BOIS and I didn't find the chip and the BOIS will show it if it's there. You can still use BitLocker without the chip but what a pain in the butt.

 

[Dinesh]

I feel that ultimate is the best version that you can have out of Windows Vista or Windows 7. Anything lesser than that would be against my reputation.

 

[visy199]

If you don't waste your money on Ultimate it's your choice,people who want to buy Windows Seven can see the differeces between them before buying and see which's better for them!
Choose what you need and what you like!

 

[lostsoul62]

I agree because I too have a computer ego as big as a mountain and I'll just buy Ultimate and I don't care if I need it or not. I just wanted to put some info out there.

 

[burtie]

I agree because I too have a computer ego as big as a mountain and I'll just buy Ultimate and I don't care if I need it or not. I just wanted to put some info out there.

:roflmao:

 

[lostsoul62]

:roflmao:

Maybe not becasue I want to buy the Family Pack for Windows 7 and I don't know if Ultimate comes in the Family Pack, but if it does let me know and I will be the first one in line to get "Ultimate"

 

[visy199]

Watch at this topic and see the differences between Windows 7 editions
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/14422-compare-windows-7-editions.html

 

[poin2]

You don't need the TPM chip to use BitLocker. The chip is only necessary for the system integrity verification that can be run at startup.

For people who might be able to get the upgrade version of Ultimate and who would potentially have use for the couple extra features like Bitlocker, it's still potentially worth it.

But otherwise Ultimate this round indeed appears primarily a way for consumers to get all the features of Enterprise if they really truly want/need them, or if they just like the ego boost of running it. There aren't a lot of "extras" most people will need or want, and Professional should be the max needed by most, especially if they can use things like TrueCrypt instead of Bitlocker.

I'd expect those evaluating via things like Technet and MSDN likely to stick with Ultimate (or Enterprise) however. Stuff like BitLocker can come more into play in professional environments, and it's good to be able to see exactly how it works and if one's workplace might have use in particular.

 

[pparks1]

I agree because I too have a computer ego as big as a mountain and I'll just buy Ultimate and I don't care if I need it or not. I just wanted to put some info out there.

I'm just totally baffled as to why you guys would buy something that you don't need. Honestly, are you ever going to use or need these features?

How many will ever run a domain at home and need to join it? Just IT guys mostly

Who cares about BitLocker, when you can do the same thing for free and with more features with TrueCrypt?

Remote desktop support is nice.... but there are free alternatives (VNC) and hacks to enable remote desktop in home premium versions.

Virtual XP Mode....it's just a virtual machine. You can run this stuff for free with VMWare Server, Sun VirtualBox or Microsoft Virtual PC.


And no. Ultimate is not the included version with the Family Pack. It's Home Premium. So, instead of paying $150 for 3 computers, looks like you will need to spend about $600 for 3 OEM copies of Ultimate.

 

[lostsoul62]

Ultimate is not the included version with the Family Pack. It's Home Premium. So, instead of paying $150 for 3 computers, looks like you will need to spend about $600 for 3 OEM copies of Ultimate.

Thanks for the reply and since I'm retired from the computer field and no longer need to use a Domain I think I'll just take the Family Pack of Home Premium. Thanks

 

[pparks1]

Glad to be of help. It just seems people are drawn to the word "Ultimate" and they feel if they aren't using Ultimate then they are really missing out out something.

Personally, I'm a little tired of the multiple version Windows thing. They should just do like Linux OS's and Apple OSX...make 1 version. If you want more functionality, have a software repository online that you can install from.

 

[Kari]

I feel that ultimate is the best version that you can have out of Windows Vista or Windows 7. Anything lesser than that would be against my reputation.

I agree because I too have a computer ego as big as a mountain and I'll just buy Ultimate and I don't care if I need it or not. I just wanted to put some info out there.

My words, exactly. Though I need language packs on a daily basis, it is not the reason I have Ultimate. I need the capability to join a domain, use BitLocker to secure my confidential customer files, back up to a network and maybe the most important thing: I can still run my older work related software in Virtual XP.

To defend OP: he's right. If you do not need all the extras Ultimate gives, I fully understand if you choose Home Premium or even Basic. This forum has over 20,000 members and as many opinions about which version we each should have. Every opinion is as valid and right as any other.

Kari

 

[pparks1]

Kari,

If you have a need to join a domain, aren't you using an operating system that was provided and is supported by your employer? Seems like they would be using volume licensing and using Professional or Enterprise.

BitLocker or TrueCrypt...in my opinion they both provide the same functionality. 1 just comes with certain Windows versions and the other is freely available for everybody.

The backup to a network part can be done without Ultimate. There is drag and drop. You can backup locally and copy to a network location. You can use tools like robocopy to make a mirror copy on a network (that is what I do).

Anyway, not criticizing the use of Vista/Win7 Ultimate....just providing some arguing points saying that many can do the same things without necessarily using Ultimate.

 

[Kari]

Kari, If you have a need to join a domain, aren't you using an operating system that was provided and is supported by your employer? Seems like they would be using volume licensing and using Professional or Enterprise.

I am my own "employer". From my office I join domains of my customers.

BitLocker or TrueCrypt...in my opinion they both provide the same functionality. 1 just comes with certain Windows versions and the other is freely available for everybody.

I've used BitLocker with Vista Ultimate, it's served me well. I see no reason to change.

The backup to a network part can be done without Ultimate. There is drag and drop. You can backup locally and copy to a network location. You can use tools like robocopy to make a mirror copy on a network (that is what I do).

I don't have to do anything after I setup my automatical backups after first installation of Windows 7, without any third party software. +1 for Ultimate

Anyway, not criticizing the use of Vista/Win7 Ultimate....just providing some arguing points saying that many can do the same things without necessarily using Ultimate.

Exactly what I said at the end of my post.

Kari

 

[pparks1]

I am my own "employer". From my office I join domains of my customers.

Huh....your machine can only be a member of 1 domain at a time.....you seriously cannot be joining their domain and then leaving their domain and going back to a workgroup and then going to another domain at a later time. I think that maybe there is some confusion on what "joining" a domain entails.

As a network/systems admin for a few different companies over the years...there is absolutely no way that we would ever allow an outside computer to be brought in and joined to our domain.

 

[Mystere]

FYI, TrueCrypt and BitLocker are not the same thing. If you do have a TPM chip, then BitLocker will be superior. If you don't, there are still things that BitLocker does that TrueCrypt can't.. plus there was a recent exploit against TrueCrypt that made it ridiculously easy to hack.

Slashdot IT Story | Bootkit Bypasses TrueCrypt Encryption

BitLocker, for instance, allows key escrow. So your employees laptops can be secured, but you don't have to lose everything if the employee quits or is fired. TrueCrypt can't do that.

Many people want or need domains, even in the home. A buddy of mine has his family with 7 computers hooked up in a domain to make it easy to give access to those that should have it, etc..

VNC and the like are also not anywhere near as good as Remote Desktop. RDP shows virtually no lag, while VNC becomes virtually useless in a high latency environment. Also, RDP does a lot of things VNC doesn't.. including seamless mode, multiple monitors, and with Windows 7, you can even do 3D acceleration through RDP (including Aero).

Virtual XP mode isn't just a virtual machine either. Apart from the fact that you get a free license for XP with Ultimate (so you don't need to buy one if you don't already have one), it provides a seamless mode where you can put an icon for an app on your desktop and run that app just by clicking on the icon. Can't do that with VMWare.

Ultimate also has other advantages, like Windows Subsystem for Unix applications.

Now, maybe none of this stuff matters to you, and that's fine.. Ultimate isn't for you. But don't tell people that these things are useless, and you don't need or want it... Some of us do both need and want those features.

 

[Kari]

Huh....your machine can only be a member of 1 domain at a time.....you seriously cannot be joining their domain and then leaving their domain and going back to a workgroup and then going to another domain at a later time. I think that maybe there is some confusion on what "joining" a domain entails.

As a network/systems admin for a few different companies over the years...there is absolutely no way that we would ever allow an outside computer to be brought in and joined to our domain.

I know what joining a domain means. I need to do this with two customers, for both of them we have own dedicated rig with Vista Ultimate with tailor made software and access to their Intranet systems. Works well and (almost) without problems. Uptime for both rigs now over one year. EDIT: Not counting necessary reboots after updates and installations!

Windows 7 Ultimate already ordered for both, decided to wait with upgrade until official release.

Kari

 

[pparks1]

BitLocker, for instance, allows key escrow. So your employees laptops can be secured, but you don't have to lose everything if the employee quits or is fired. TrueCrypt can't do that.

Which I understand, but I would expect employers to be providing the OS on these computers and under volume license agreements it would be mostly enterprise or professional versions.

Many people want or need domains, even in the home. A buddy of mine has his family with 7 computers hooked up in a domain to make it easy to give access to those that should have it, etc..

While there are some that might want this, I don't think it's a large percentage...nor do I think most average joe's would be willing to pay for the licensing that this would involve.

First, for Windows Server 2003 Small Business Server with 5 cals, you are looking at just over $700. Microsoft Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition w SP1 version upgrade package by Office Depot

And, your buddy would need an addition 5 CAL license to cover computers 6 and 7. That's nearly $200 more dollars, PC Connection - Windows Small Business Server (SBS) 2003 Device CALs 5-pack Add-on Upgrade

Finally, 7 computers running Windows 7 Ultimate OEM is $189 per box.

So, that's $700+$200+($189 x 7) = $2,223.....that's quite a lot of money for somebody playing by the rules.

VNC and the like are also not anywhere near as good as Remote Desktop. RDP shows virtually no lag, while VNC becomes virtually useless in a high latency environment.

Ok, but most people would want RDP or VNC to connect to another computer in their house and there won't be a latency issue there.

Now, maybe none of this stuff matters to you, and that's fine.. Ultimate isn't for you. But don't tell people that these things are useless, and you don't need or want it... Some of us do both need and want those features.

It's not that the features are useless....but people just hear "ultimate" and it's like "I gotta have that". While some of these features are useful to the right person (I'm a systems admin and have been for 10+ years, with certs in MS, RedHat and Cisco)....I still believe that a majority of the functionality is not applicable to the average home power user. I've known quite a number of people who invested in Vista Ultimate and were left wondering why they paid that extra money. It's all that I am saying....make sure that you understand and know what you are getting before you shell out the dollars for something just because it's got a fancier name.

I know what joining a domain means. I need to do this with two customers, for both of them we have own dedicated rig with Vista Ultimate with tailor made software and access to their Intranet systems.

Sorry, I just didn't want to assume anything. I've heard some who think they cannot access a share on a domain unless they join to the domain...and we both know that isn't necessary.

 

[Mystere]

Which I understand, but I would expect employers to be providing the OS on these computers and under volume license agreements it would be mostly enterprise or professional versions.

Have you considered the case of "what if *I* am the employer?"

There's lots of small businesses out there. I have clients that run window cleaning services, and they want a laptop with their customer list in their vans. It's not unheard of in competitive industries to break into competitors vehicles looking for ways to steal each others customers. And in fact, one of my clients has had it happen.

While there are some that might want this, I don't think it's a large percentage...nor do I think most average joe's would be willing to pay for the licensing that this would involve.

There are lots of ways to get legal licenses... ActionPak, Technet, Student licensing, employee benefits (some people have contracts with Microsoft to allow their employees to buy cheap copies of their software) etc.. the licensing may be grey (or overlooked) in some areas, but don't be niave.

So, that's $700+$200+($189 x 7) = $2,223.....that's quite a lot of money for somebody playing by the rules.

Actually, i believe my friend got his copy of Widows server via a special student pricing a while back, etc..

Ok, but most people would want RDP or VNC to connect to another computer in their house and there won't be a latency issue there.

Most of my clients that use it, use it to access their home systems on rather slow Cellular connections. And i know a lot of people that RDP into their home systems from work. For instance, one guy RDP's into his home system to setup his Windows Media Center to record shows he wants.

My point is that we don't always know what we'll use something for. In some cases, it makes sense to buy more than what you need because you don't know what the future will bring, especially when upgrading later will be significantly more costly.

I still believe that a majority of the functionality is not applicable to the average home power user. I've known quite a number of people who invested in Vista Ultimate and were left wondering why they paid that extra money. It's all that I am saying....make sure that you understand and know what you are getting before you shell out the dollars for something just because it's got a fancier name.

That's fine. Of course you should only buy what you're going to use. I just have a problem with people trying to tell others that things aren't worthwhile when they know nothing of those peoples needs. Especially trying to downplay the advantages as being 100% duplicatable via free alternatives (which may or may not even work correctly, being that they are not often designed to work with the latest OS. VNC, in particular, has a long history of having severe problems with UAC for instance).

Sorry, I just didn't want to assume anything. I've heard some who think they cannot access a share on a domain unless they join to the domain...and we both know that isn't necessary.

No, but it's siginficantly less convenient.

 

[pparks1]

There are lots of ways to get legal licenses... ActionPak, Technet, Student licensing, employee benefits (some people have contracts with Microsoft to allow their employees to buy cheap copies of their software) etc.. the licensing may be grey (or overlooked) in some areas, but don't be niave.

I'm not being naive...I realize that 99.9% of people running a domain in their home are not doing it with legal licenses. I think the Microsoft Home Use Program is limited to Microsoft Office Applications. My last employer offered this. We could get Office 2007 for $19.99 and we could legally install it on 1 computer at home and when our employment was terminated, under legal contract it said it had to be removed from the computer.

I was actually disappointed when Microsoft Home Server shipped without the ability to be a domain controller. As you said, for some home users that would be valuable. But it's right in the EULA that you are NOT allowed to use DCPromo in any fashion to use the software as a domain controller.

With regards to the other programs, there are requirements to be in compliance with the EULA. For example, having Technet doesn't really provide the ability to install a server, run 7 clients, and use it for everyday production needs. Things like Technet are for evaluation purposes...but it seems that so many like to forget those little bits.

Actually, i believe my friend got his copy of Widows server via a special student pricing a while back, etc..

I'm not aware of any student discounts on server OS's from Microsoft. I could be wrong because their licensing is pretty complicated...but I've never seen server OS's in the list. Nor am I a qualified student anymore either.