Why Moore's Law, not mobility, is killing the PC

[Night Hawk]

Believe me when I say "Most won't"! The conditions people live and work under in some places are horrid and considerably inhuman until circumstances change and that particular culture abolishes abuses on a large scale! Speaking of waste they have had their problems(in Bejiing lately) with "Smog" the nasty word not heard in the US since the 1960s! That's when the EPA got to work getting after corporations to clean up their acts! The corps outsourced elsewhere as a result and you know where some of those places are!

In places where labor is dirt cheap and no one is demanding higher wages companies are making hugh profits suppying us with all the gimics of a modern consumer life. The rush to gain an edge by each manufacturer however has led to the present sort of stalemate as far as reaching the present limitations until some newer technology appears. That rush to compete along with commercial profit margins has come with it's price tags being tucked away elsewhere outside of our normal view on things.
http://www.zdnet.com/google-glass-y...y-goodbye-and-you-wont-mind-a-bit-7000012254/
That even includes some of the latest innovations outside of the desktop platform. http://www.zdnet.com/google-glass-y...y-goodbye-and-you-wont-mind-a-bit-7000012254/

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yes Night Hawk it stinks through and through and that idiot with the camera well I wonder how long before he gets it shoved into his face by some really big biker

 

[Night Hawk]

As you or I would be appalled by reports on what conditions are seen in those places the corporations have been exploiting the cheap labor for decades turning a "blind eye" to the local environment for the bottom line almighty dollar! And once companies find other ways to "cut corners" in lower manufacturing costs like cheaper made desktops that fall apart and fail easier people tend to jump on the ease of finding as well as ease and convenience to carry around these other devices.

The parts manufacturers on the other hands who sell to the custom case builder knows they have to keep coming out with something even better for each new thing in order to see it sell. They are now hitting a few road blocks when it comes to not being able to come out with something new that dusts off what you already have! As the writer there indicated there was no great leaps and bounds to see when going from the Core 2 to I5, I7 Core series to some extent. With AMD as well as tne Atholon IIs and Phenom IIs surpass any of the first dual cores and certainly slower single cores while not blasting past their more recent but not so new Atholon and Phenom dual cores once a bench mark region has been reached.

Unfortunately to get these updated technologies at lower more reasonable prices you have to also consider where the labor in manufacturing is from and what elements workers are exposed to when finding yourself stunned by the harsh conditions found in other places. Someone going in to take notes(and photos as well) on what is conditions are like and then reporting on it can be subject to change at times.(face smashed in, bones broken, or else :shock if someone doesn't want word getting out that is.

The harsh reality is we enjoy the fruits of the hard work and suffering of others in a "dog eat dog" world at times.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Well put Night Hawk and I for one am with you all the way.
I have seen those documentaries as I mentioned the Coltan, the plastic and heavy metal waste and also the abhorrent and truly obscene use of children in those filthy slum factories in India where they make clothing and shoes and all manner of things we take for granted.

I used to have a fellow who worked as a travelling / buying rep for horse saddlery - bridles etc etc come in for regular blood testing when I was the Nurse Manager at a small country hospital and he showed us home taken videos of some of the conditions of the sweat shops in India where he went to buy those products for just about next to nothing. They employed the people some as young as 5 who did nothing all day but tan, cut, shape, and emboss leather goods meant for horse riding back here in Australia in what can only be described as squalid and absolutely filthy. He (and the owners of those businesses there) had no qualms about doing what he / they did and retorted if they didn't have that then they would not have anything.
That in my mind is no excuse for letting that go on.

People wonder why there has to be war but until they get equality right there is no way was will ever be eradicated. Personally I think those pacifists of whatever leaning live in lala land and ought to wake up to that fact. Why do they think our troops are over in Afghanistan for the fun of it no because if it was left to what they had before is something not even worth contemplating. But I suppose I shall get a flaming for voicing what I have - oh well dog eat dog as you say.

 

[Night Hawk]

Well it goes to show that even here in the 21st century we still have a long way to go before you will ever expect to anything like what Gene Roddenbury envisioned in the Star Trek tv series(1960s) which ironically became a favorite for teaching the English language in some of these same areas! Too bad the utopian idea of a unified human race is still a far fetched dream compared to actual reality even in a modern age has to make you wonder!

As far as being in Afghanistan that was for an entirely different reason when someone planned and had carried out an attack on the US. And what happened to all the planners? We got them buzzards one by one! We had to go to Afghanistan however and will be leaving once the job is done at least for the most part. The Afghans now have to pick up where we leave off!

Who knows maybe when they learn how to do something more then blow each other up they will discover "ecommerce" or something like that and come ouf of the 13th century mind set to actually realize equal rights have to apply to all. Until then however we can only "keep dreaming buddy!" since it won't be any time soon!

 

[ICIT2LOL]

I agree to an extent Night Hawk but I also think that what was going on in that awful place - regime wise was and is as much of an issue.

I am not belittling the attack on the US and you have to remember that there were similar attacks elsewhere like London, one in Spain, and that dreadful attack in Bali all caused by the same radical group whatever you call it / them.

I think that one thinks of the twin towers the most because of the sheer enormous loss of life and injury to all individuals but it doesn't make it any worse than killing likewise anywhere else - however how many that might be I think you would have to agree.

I have no doubt in my mind that there have been attacks planned for out here that have been foiled but I do suppose that policing such acts out here is easier to do than in the US because of the difference in population levels.

I think we have ourselves to blame in some respect in that the west (and I don't aim that at the US it was all of the western countries) wrong at the time but it was done and now we are getting a backlash of what we did, and I don't see any end in sight because as you put it again quite rightly put it it is still a long lost world of thinking and ideation from which I suspect they do not want to come out of.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Free Trade is responsible.

In the "Good Old Days", countries would levy tariffs against places like the ones you guys have mentioned.

 

[Night Hawk]

Well not wanting to get further into other topics I will simply mention that the usual driving motivation is political or acquiring political power in some way, shape, or form. The harsh abuses seen are also the result of corruption and no labor laws in effect in those other places. The human race knows far more on how to harm itself then better it unfortunately. We seem to find that too much easier for some reason!

As for Free Trade that makes for "Globalization" don't you know?! "We want it We get it!" is the thought there as we tend to be consumers on a larger scale. Our economies are consumer driven types for the most part regardless of how corporations take advantage of other things to keep us supplied!

 

[lehnerus2000]

Exactly

As for Free Trade that makes for "Globalization" don't you know?! "We want it We get it!" is the thought there as we tend to be consumers on a larger scale. Our economies are consumer driven types for the most part regardless of how corporations take advantage of other things to keep us supplied!

Exactly.

The irony is the most voracious consumers, are accelerating the destruction of their own jobs.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

As for Free Trade that makes for "Globalization" don't you know?! "We want it We get it!" is the thought there as we tend to be consumers on a larger scale. Our economies are consumer driven types for the most part regardless of how corporations take advantage of other things to keep us supplied!

Yep and look what happened to the Euro zone what a shambles that is.

 

[Night Hawk]

No one said we couldn't very well fall into our own demise as empires do fall at times! We are just now seeing the Dow Jones moving upwards for a change.

The rapid progression of smaller and smaller technologies that can do most the same basic things as your typical desktop as far as checking the main, paying bills online, shopping the shopping sites, etc. as well as consumer electronics in general is creating a myriad of waste taking up land fills and in those other places producing toxins into the environments since they lack the regulations on emissions! Or as they say "Haste makes Waste" as we will likely poison ourselves off the planet before anything else.

With even your latest HD large projection type lcd screens you have to have a special large pickup or bring them into a place that deals with disposal just as you would for smaller lcd monitors and certainly any crt you still find. In other places to the opposite they can look like something out of a disaster movie as far as how things are disposed of creating their own pollutions.

 

[MagusMagnus]

Let's look at some averages...

Computer phones: $135
Computer tablets: $386
Actual Computers: $500-2000.

Yeah, if I were an average computer user who didn't care whatsoever for heavy multimedia tasks or gaming (as stated, the vast majority of computer users anyway), I'd probably have to go with the tablet at that savings too, especially in this still dismal economic climate.

Seems to me that the actual computers price schemes need to come down a couple notches to get close to an even keel.

 

[Night Hawk]

Well surprisingly most uses will have either a desktop or laptop even if not the latest to sit in front of while at home. That's the comfort zone. For those on the go that want to carry something with them all the time however since texting is a common trend all those little smart phones, keeping up with the Fruit company trend of pushing out a newer IPhonie or IPader, or a look at the Android gadgets out now you would think everyone will be switching to...

The Tablet PC is another option of seeing a tablet running a larger monitor with a separate keyboard and mouse. The 5 most common brands can be looked over in a tablet pc review seen at WHICH TABLET PC IS BEST FOR YOU?

Now as you were saying tablets and tablet pcs can easily run much higher if not actually in the same price range as an IPad. I just bought an Android with a usb keyboard included in the carrying case it comes with. The unit has a dislay on both sides one lights up for use when the keyboard is plugged while you flip it over for the touch and swipe if not using the onscreen keyboard there.

I'm still waiting to see that family member switch ISPs however in order to get back to using the 7 HP x64 desktop I built in order to get away from dialup where the phone company messed up the phones between apartments daaa and get cable if not another option like a cellular modem. Now that person actually doesn't do much but check the mail and browse the shopping sites a bit, no gaming but likes the solitare games in Windows you could also play on a Windows tablet but not 8 apparently since that one wasn't found in 8.

The difference of course there is having a no so costly custom case over going out to buy the latest OEM desktop instead where the prices will climb.

 

[spencer1]

Let's look at some averages...

Computer phones: $135
Computer tablets: $386
Actual Computers: $500-2000.

Yeah, if I were an average computer user who didn't care whatsoever for heavy multimedia tasks or gaming (as stated, the vast majority of computer users anyway), I'd probably have to go with the tablet at that savings too, especially in this still dismal economic climate.

Seems to me that the actual computers price schemes need to come down a couple notches to get close to an even keel.

From what I've seen lately, very decent desktops and even laptops are priced in the $300 - $500 range. The more expensive PC's are for gamers and graphic gear-heads.

 

[jimbo45]

Well surprisingly most uses will have either a desktop or laptop even if not the latest to sit in front of while at home. That's the comfort zone. For those on the go that want to carry something with them all the time however since texting is a common trend all those little smart phones, keeping up with the Fruit company trend of pushing out a newer IPhonie or IPader, or a look at the Android gadgets out now you would think everyone will be switching to...

The Tablet PC is another option of seeing a tablet running a larger monitor with a separate keyboard and mouse. The 5 most common brands can be looked over in a tablet pc review seen at WHICH TABLET PC IS BEST FOR YOU?

Now as you were saying tablets and tablet pcs can easily run much higher if not actually in the same price range as an IPad. I just bought an Android with a usb keyboard included in the carrying case it comes with. The unit has a dislay on both sides one lights up for use when the keyboard is plugged while you flip it over for the touch and swipe if not using the onscreen keyboard there.

I'm still waiting to see that family member switch ISPs however in order to get back to using the 7 HP x64 desktop I built in order to get away from dialup where the phone company messed up the phones between apartments daaa and get cable if not another option like a cellular modem. Now that person actually doesn't do much but check the mail and browse the shopping sites a bit, no gaming but likes the solitare games in Windows you could also play on a Windows tablet but not 8 apparently since that one wasn't found in 8.

The difference of course there is having a no so costly custom case over going out to buy the latest OEM desktop instead where the prices will climb.

Hi there
you can install all the old Classic W7 games on W8 (the real ones not those horrible ones from the store or those marked XBOX or whatever and often come with adware). You can install these easily on W8 tablets too.

There are plenty of Good versions of spider Solitaire, Hearts and others that work free on Android and are great to have a quick play with when your next Tube train won't arrive for 15 mins. !!

Here's W7 solitaire and W7 spider Solitaire (much better than the rubbish version in the store) screenshots plus the games from W7 on the start menu of W8 (and I'm running W8 enterprise x-64).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

The games are all 32bit and are cross compatible between versions(Vista, 7, 8, may not work on XP). The point I was making there however is that without me building a new case with a newer version already on it that person won't be upgrading anytime soon as a general rule not really spending much time in front of a pc outside of work.(data processing)

When that person found themselves without a working phone since dialup was still in use I ended up buying an Android tablet with WiFi to see if an alternative signal could be received at least temporarily until resituated. Amazon.com: AGPtek 10.1 inch Android 4.0 Capacitive Touch Screen Tablet PC (Wi-Fi G-sensor, 1024*600, 1.2GHz, 1GB DDR3, 8GB built-in Capacity, Front Camera, Support 3G HDMI 1.3 1080P 2160P HD Flash 11.1 Multi-language) - Black Faux Leather Case with

Now to explain how that one works not actually having two screens but two positions in the carrying case. With the keyboard plugged in you fold it up like a laptop as shown there. When not having the keyboard involved however you flip the unit by itself 180 degrees in the case and close it up to see a tablet screen staring out at you with a small border of the case wrapping around the screen itself. When set up like a laptop you would be looking at the back of the unit instead.

Now does that still look like it would replace the desktop? For some it would be cheaper then going out for a new laptop while running Android instead of Windows if you can still that model again which now seems to be disabled since last fall showing how fast the turnover rate is on these types of devices when compared to the vast distinction between new desktops and mobile apparatus. Despite the convenience you can still only do so much on any portable showing that the desktop is still here to stay despite the lack of any tremendous leap in performances when any new hardware series arrives.(cpu, faster memory, SSDs boost but not super exorbitantly.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hum the other thing about waste is the current drive to get us all to use those "green" light globes when ok they use less power but what do you do with the thing when it is dead??

Betcha everyones thinking yep less CO2 and all that stuff but what about the contaminating and very dangerous rubbish they make these things from??

Energy saving light bulbs 'contain cancer causing chemicals' - Telegraph

'Green' light bulbs could damage the environment if dumped in landfill - Telegraph

Recycling Energy-Efficient Light Bulbs | National Geographic

Food for thought next time you break one eh??

To me LED lighting is the safest and not least cheapest way to have illuminating power.

 

[Night Hawk]

That's what is now being used as the substitute when the old incandescent bulbs burn out provided the new type will fit?

Some basement and other fixtures still need to be replaced since the new flourescent bulbs won't even fit in them either while the old incandescent with a longer neck is needed. The flat after the threads doesn't provide enough space for fixtures in older structure since the manufacturers forgot to those things into consideration when pushing these out on the market.

Likewise forget about OSing any Green Power or similar energy saving drives since the OS will tend to have problems with the programs you install while the OS will still go on and run. The programs are what suffer the most with those while they still are not intended for OSing to begin with. That's a case of newer being less performance orientated and actually slowing things down as compared to the rush to see the next beat out the previous!

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yes Anak out here at least the new "green" bulbs globes call them whatever they all have the same bayonet or screw fitting.

My concern is the wretched stuff they make them with and I know there were warnings years ago ago re breaking those fluorescent tubes, just like when we were kids we loved breaking those old CRT tubes little did we know??

To me it would take many more time the waste from LED lighting equipment to come even close to the dangerous stuff that is in the currently promoted ones. I suppose it is a bit like the problem with asbestos we used it willy nilly only to find years later just how deadly this stuff can be.

 

[Night Hawk]

That's the problem often seen with any new substitute elements when it hasn't been in wide use for some time to notice just what the effects will be. Decades back I worked with stuff that contained lead as well as other toxins while in production type manufacturing to then find out just what from hair analysis I was being exposed to. It would send a chill up the ole spine! Arsenic, cadmium, lead were just a few!