Microsoft's Windows 8 Plan B(lue): Start button back, boot to desktop

[magicdave26]

Even if MS return the start menu and allow disabling of that hideous mess that is Metro, (Which we can already do with 3rd party apps) the OS is still buggier than Vista was at launch and as stable as Charles Manson on crack

They took 7, removed all the sensible features, hacked it together with a UI that should be purely on tablets, and left us with some Frankenstein monster that has no idea what it is doing on a PC

Windows XP is still going strong for some people, so I don't see there being any problem at all holding onto Windows 7 for the foreseeable future / until MS wake up and start making sensible PC OS's again

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Actually the latest leaked build - 9369 has improved the start screen a bit - there's now a button at the bottom which lists all the apps and you can sort these in alphabetical / date installed / most frequently used -- and you can group and re-arrange stuff. -- Not perfect but a huge improvement on what was available before - and clicking on a standard App opens it without needing to go to the desktop first. The search bar is also available at this point so you can enter something like W* if you want quickly to find ms Word for example. Just type anywhere on the screen - text automatically goes into the search input area.

Maybe Ms will get there in the end.

As far as a Buggy OS -- That's probably the ONLY thing people on the W7 Forums have got quite wrong -- for all its faults W8 is quite stable and not buggy at all. Most problems arise by people either having incredibly rare hardware, install very dubious software - especially from torrents, or attempting to do "Updates" when really an install from scratch is what should be performed.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[magicdave26]

As far as a Buggy OS -- That's probably the ONLY thing people on the W7 Forums have got quite wrong -- for all its faults W8 is quite stable and not buggy at all. Most problems arise by people either having incredibly rare hardware, install very dubious software - especially from torrents, or attempting to do "Updates" when really an install from scratch is what should be performed.

Cheers
jimbo

Nope, new hardware, fresh install of 8, buggy POS

Clicked network connections > Disable LAN > Explorer crashed, reproducible any time I wanted

Install a game > run game > CTD

Install same game on 7 > Run game > works

Plenty more that I cba to repeat for the 10th time on as many forums

And as you said yourself: "As far as a Buggy OS -- That's probably the ONLY thing people on the Windows 7 Forums have got quite wrong"

People being the operative word, more than 1 person, many people, when many people say the same thing, its generally because its true

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Well just look on THIS Forum also to see that people have problems too with W7. I don't think the general consensus is that EITHER W7 or W8 is particularly buggy -- Nor even was VISTA -- VISTA had a real useabilty problem with the UAC and the fact that at release most hardware around wasn't sufficiently powerful. On a VM these days VISTA actually doesn't run too bad.

I'm not referring here to whether people actually LIKE the OS or not -- the fact that it's particularly buggy is in most cases blatently UNTRUE. That doesn't mean to say some people don't have problems --they do -- same with any OS.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[magicdave26]

Hi there
Well just look on THIS Forum also to see that people have problems too with W7. I don't think the general consensus is that EITHER W7 or W8 is particularly buggy -- Nor even was VISTA -- VISTA had a real useabilty problem with the UAC and the fact that at release most hardware around wasn't sufficiently powerful. On a VM these days VISTA actually doesn't run too bad.

I'm not referring here to whether people actually LIKE the OS or not -- the fact that it's particularly buggy is in most cases blatently UNTRUE. That doesn't mean to say some people don't have problems --they do -- same with any OS.

Cheers
jimbo

I don't doubt people have problems with every OS, I'm speaking from my own experience and from what I read on many other forums

Win 7 is easily the most stable and bug free OS

Vista was a joke
8 is worse than Vista in many ways, other than it has some of 7 in there somewhere which helps

Vista for me was a certifiable nightmare, fresh install, everything fully updated and working 100%, shutdown for the night > boot up in the morning, services had disabled themselves and were non-startable due to dependency services also being dead

Only solution was a fresh install, again.

This was confirmed by MS when the 7 leaks started appearing and I spent many a day sending them logs and running programs for them until they sorted it, few leaks later and the issue was fixed in 7

Win 8 is following the decades long tradition of MS desktop OSs

95 - Bad
98se - Good
ME- Bad
XP - Good
Vista - Bad
7 - Good
8 - Bad


See a pattern ?

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I've played around with most of Ms's Windows OS's. The only TWO I can say that I had problems with were Windows Millennium and Windows NT.

Windows NT was an absolute dog -- not because it was particularly unstable -- apparently it wasn't - but lack of Plug'n play and trying to set up Network services (RAS and all that type of B/S) meant you needed a degree in Computer science to get it working. Might have been ok as a server but for a Home user this makes the word "User Aggressive" far too kind.

The other POS was Windows Millennium -- I'm still not quite sure what its purpose was as Windows 2000 was a FAR FAR better system (and still works fine today).

I found I could adapt W2003 server quite easily to be used as a desktop OS so there's nothing magical you have to do -- but Windows NT --no wonder it was called Windows Neanderthal ort Windows No Thanks.

Cheers
jimbo

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

Given that this is all just speculation and rumors for now, I'll wait until there's something more conclusive before I personally decide on anything.

However, if these rumors are true, Microsoft would be correct to go back, examine, and ideally reimplement what made Windows so successful as a desktop operating system that it took the entire desktop market by storm and defined what exactly is a "desktop" operating system with the debut of Windows 95 and solidifying it with the debuts of Windows XP and Windows 7.

Put simply, Windows 8 just wasn't Windows without the Start Menu and a complete Desktop.

What proved to be a working formula wasn't so much 95 to XP by any means since XP long awaited SP3 which actually contained all the fixes that were never tended to in the previous years! The solid versions coming up from Legacy were 3.11 turning to NT, 98SE when MS realized a large goober with 98 First Ed., 2000 and 2000 Pro bypassing the ME flop, onto Vista despite under specifying what the large OS needed there, and the working formula seen with 7!

The "make all look the same" mishap is what 8 has brought in with it there! While RT may be strictly for ARM wares Win 8 saw that same Tablet, mobile type gui slapped onto what they want to call a desktop version while focusing mainly on the mobile market with Surface. They put a working av program in while stripping away other things that made it Windows without 3rd party apps required until... 8!

The main problem from the start with 8 is decentralizing the OS while some say "who needs the Start?" the facts are Windows was far better organized having a central point to work from where everyone could catch up fast with each new version until 8 upturned the fruit basket! This went over here, that went over there, this other was hidden somewhere over ???

Doing away with the Quick launch to see items pinned right on the taskbar was a big leap forward while trying to bring up a hidden Settings/Apps Crawler bar gets a little ridiculis when half of the Control Panel as well as CP link is hidden in a right click menu beneath where the Start screen popup appears. If you don't hit just the right spot in the deep lower left hand corner your right click simply brings up what you would see by right clicking anywhere else on the desktop namely the Personalization screen. dddaaaa...

MS must have had some idea ahead of time that 8 sales could and would likely slump in a heart beat and knew a "backup plan" was a contingency they were going to need. Or Blue will be as some blog writers would say "more of the same" crapola! We'll see just what MS is cooking up soon enough however.

 

[Phone Man]

All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu. But we will see in a few Months. Personally I like the Start Screen better than the Start Menu.

Jim

 

[Night Hawk]

Well if you are accustomed to using smart phones, IPads, IPhonies, Tablets then that all works out for you. For the rest of us who want any type of productive desktop the additional steps needed make a taskmaster out of it on the other hand requiring extra steps or the need in most cases for a 3rd party intervention where the OS company should have already thought things out better for the desktop platform releases! It's a catch 22 floppy type courtesy of MS you like!

Not providing the desktop user with options and simply stuffing them with a tablet on desktop isn't a working solution and certainly wasn't well thought out if you are trying to keep desktop users onboard! MS got too busy pushing Metro out on RT/ARM and their new Surface tablets to take notice and now has to backtrack a bit?

Whether you love or hate 8 the facts speak for themselves over time. This is one mixed up turned sideways type version MS put out this time instead of learning and growing with the success 7 has been seeing! It only makes 7 look even better in the long run too! What better way you can rerelease 7 and still see 7 sales fly?!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi folks again
W8 (latest leaked build 9369 x-64) does actually have a type of start button which makes the Start screen a bit more useable instead of the POS it currently is.

It is possible to use W8 without even looking at the start screen after the initial boot - but if people are happy with W7 stick with it.

Incidentally Windows is NOT Ms's biggest money earner -- Office still makes a HUGE pile for Ms as well as Xbox and corporate services.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

Hi folks again
W8 (latest leaked build 9369 x-64)

Incidentally Windows is NOT Ms's biggest money earner -- Office still makes a HUGE pile for Ms as well as Xbox and corporate services.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo, just a question....

What or how would the end users do/accept if M$ changed how they interacted with office?

M$ users in general, as far as I've seen them, don't like too much change.

 

[SIW2]

The reason is to force the start screen at users.

It is their way of getting users into their online services.

They are trying to turn a pc into a phone. That gives MS more control and more revenue

Also, from what I remember, Windows 8 wasn't always suppose to be lacking a Start Button/Menu.......the code was always there and people were "fixing" it themselves. They pulled the code out at the last minute for some reason.....seemed like a d*ck move to me. .....and we are either forced to use a gimped OS, or stay with what we have.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi folks again
W8 (latest leaked build 9369 x-64)

Incidentally Windows is NOT Ms's biggest money earner -- Office still makes a HUGE pile for Ms as well as Xbox and corporate services.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo, just a question....

What or how would the end users do/accept if M$ changed how they interacted with office?

M$ users in general, as far as I've seen them, don't like too much change.

Hi there
Office 2013 has some metro type stuff -- which isn't very nice -- and the new Office 365 is a subscription based service so changes are already here.

However I'm staying for the forseeable future with Office 2010 -- I'm not buying into subscription based Software or Cloud based stuff. - I'll use things like Dropbox for sharing the odd file or two but relying on the Cloud for software or my own data -- forget it.

What happens with Office 365 for example when your subscription is about to expire and you can't get on to the Internet. (And please don't even THINK about suggesting "Direct Debits" --This allows the Bank / other people control over YOUR Bank account -- No thanks !!).

Office 2010 works on W8 just like it does on W7. Office 2013 does too --although it has some quirks - like some metro / touch features and lacks customisation that Office 2010 has and it only has a 64 bit version.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Solarstarshines]

One question: if you're not going to use Windows 8, then what do you intend to move to?

You can still Purchase a OEM copy of Windows 7 $4.00 cheaper then Win 8 what would you choose ?

Next opportunity I get im going to buy another 7 and finish this other machine of mine I thought about using 8 for the hell of it but with the reviews I read on just a few sites they all were almost the same too much BS to work around too much extra crap to wave through just to get going only positive thing that was said is it is really fast ?

Also forgot to mention a crap load of software issues and crashes that alone is a turn off I use programs that are old and new and work all fine on 7 if I go to 8 and can't use what I have that also is a big turn off im not trying to migrate to all new programing just for a new OS pretty Ridiculous

Now just because it is fast doesn't make me jump through hoops to find out a couple seconds shaved off is really no reason to push for something that everyone has already said is worse then Vista so with this being said I will go ahead grab another copy of win 7 or hell I'll do one better I have a copy of Vista I can just use that it will still make 8 look like Sh*t and that my friend is the bottom line

 

[Teerex]

Separate confirmation from Thurott.

Mary Jo Foley has reported on Microsoft’s plans to bring back the Start button and allow customers to boot directly to the desktop in Windows 8.1 And I’ve separately confirmed that this is really happening, with the Start button, in particular, driven by upper management, which overruled objections from the Windows team. And while there are certainly questions about these decisions, I think we should narrow the discussion to the core concerns: Why now? And why didn’t Microsoft simply design Windows 8 this way from the beginning?

 

[boohbah]

im wondering if this will affect those whouse start8 and have the start menu , will this stop you being able to use start8?

 

[SIW2]

Dunno about start 8, but classic shell and others will work fine in 7.

Might not be the same in 8. Depends what MS do.

It is possible they might put in a button that just opens the ad billboard. It might also interfere with 3rd party menus.

That would really annoy the potential customers.

Lets' see.

 

[FerchogtX]

Separate confirmation from Thurott.

...Why now? And why didn’t Microsoft simply design Windows 8 this way from the beginning?

Well, if he wants an aswer...

The reason is to force the start screen at users.

It is their way of getting users into their online services.

They are trying to turn a pc into a phone. That gives MS more control and more revenue

That's why, they want to suck every single cent from the user by renting and charging for everything you download, but that is not the worst part (indeed, is not that bad if you like to pay everytime instead of paying one license for the rest of your life)... the worst part is that they will know what you download, knowing your interests and such, and why not? selling that info to advertisers so they can attack your communication channes with spam about your interests... just like Facebook does...

 

[SIW2]

Talking about Fbook, you might find this amusing:

Facebook Unveils New Waste of Time : The New Yorker

 

[Night Hawk]

FaceBook can be a real "waste of time" at times and subject to scam artists as well! The social networks provide some new avenues for that type of activity! As for a 3rd party app like Classic Shell that can be easily removed as well as tried out on Blue once that is out to find out if it does or no longer will work?

I tend to suspect it might still work since the new button looks pushed over a bit from the end of the taskbar when looking at just where it is located there. The registry would be the real problem as well as explorer shell as far as that is concerned.

Now for grabbing additional copies of 7 I would have loved to have seen the present bargains on Pro and even Ultimate back in when 7 was launched. I would convinced more people to upgrade out of the problem plagued XP pcs some people seem to have! That would even bumped a few things up from Vista to 7 like a Vista laptop and the old desktop I set up for a friend when his old XP case simply came apart in pieces due to a cheaply made case.

This idea of subscription OSing is for the birds however! And I can see jimbo45's point about just where MS is making the big money with their office products while the desktop versions either succeed or flop! MS isn't too worried about that otherwise XP would have been delayed not Vista to clean up after the ME disaster! They would have XP much better then what proved to be namely bugged and in need of all three SPs! That was a rush job instead back in Jan. 2001 there!