More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

[Night Hawk]

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

It does kind of make you wonder why anyone would even consider any need there. Students doing term papers or some other task that requires only a small amount of drive space to begin with like customer orders for a salesman on the go would be about the size of it there.

But that's also where MS is leaning at the tablet side of life foresaking the things that made the pc a desirable item in the home environment now being stripped away courtesy of MS. What? MS foresake all of it's new 3d party backers for those fantastic tiles?

Never! Since MS improved the security by actually putting in something that catches malwares it sought out 3rd party help for all those tiles! At least Google-litis already has it's own bots and other gimic wares simply being brought out in Android.

Is it a harsh crticism? Well simply look back at what was in and now out of Windows to see the commotion is all about.

Well one example many never use the Media Center that was an option tossed in following XP MCE in 2005. That was in but wouldn't be missed much by the many who never use it. I have a PCIe tuner card with it's own form of MC provided by the card manufacturer and still couldn't use it without a paid subscription to a service not even needed.

WMP dvd playback won't be missed by many since many could say who cares about WMPlayer to begin with preferring other players free and retail. VLC works as a good sub for both audio and video being a freebie. Cyberlink has some great paid for players. And MS figured who needs support in what they added into WMP 10 since 9 included in XP lacked that entirely. Now 8 and 8.1 come along and no loss?!

But the all time original hate at first sight goober award obviously can only be given for TABLET RT gui on what they call Windows a supposedly desktop OS??? Most that wouldn't even take the time to find a 3rd party option that should never have been needed in the first place won't go looking for an app like Classic Shell but simply want to get an older version to replace 8 for certain and with the preview you get to boot to the desktop directly as an option but.... "And the Goober Award goes to... "MS"!!!" grand stands the...

 

[Iforgot]

Did I hit a nerve there?
ooops

Exactly, No one really keeps data on the tablet, It's always saved onto or worked off a usb/SD.

Maybe the students realize to do there real wok on a doc, you need a desktop pc.

I wonder if the programmers in M$ are doing their codeing on the actual tablet or on a desktop, then transfer to tablet for testing?

"Media Center" was in Vista and Win7 premium, was quite good too.
Don't need it in Win8.... no tuner cards for a tablet..:sarc:

"MS improved the security by actually putting in something that catches malwares"
M$ tried the basic form of security with Vista, but got slammed for it.
All the little geniuses complaining about putting a password in.
They wanted to log in with admin accounts like XP did standard.

 

[jimbo45]

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer. That would be the apparent direction they are going.

Seems believable to me.

Hi there
Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

IBM when it was a serious computer manufacturer had a HUGE lawsuit against it for similar alleged "Offences" and if any of you can remember the old IBM mainframe systems the OS (things like OS-MVS370) were supplied with Compiler utilites (FORTRAN, COBOL, PL/1 etc) and other utilities such as SORT, a security package - RACF, TSO (time sharing option -- the online Foreground processes like terminal services) etc. They were then forced to UNBUNDLE a lot of these so you can't blame Ms on this one.

In any case what's wrong with people developing something BETTER than the original manufacturer has designed or finding a GAP in the market and filling it.

What is wrong is artificial competition just for competition's sake -- for example in the UK you used to have one PAY TV sport service showing all the Football matches (soccer) which was SKY. Competition legislation required some of the matches were made available to ANOTHER provider - which used to be SATANTA, then ESPN, and now BT as a competitor.

So is it better for the consumer -- Not really since instead of a monthly subscription which gave you ALL the games you now have to pay TWO sets of subscriptions (i.e MORE) to receive the same service.

So again I would suggest "Be very careful what you ask for".

From what I've seen of W8.1 though I'm getting less and less impressed as there seems this inevitable push to cloud services, subscription services and pay pay pay for everything (the current terminology is that DREADFUL word "Monetisation" - the person who invented that term should be taken to the nearest public town square and publicly flogged within an inch of his / her life !!!!).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

Jimbo
Maybe not the person who invented the term, just the people who put it to practice.

And the excuse is always " for the shareholders"

 

[jimbo45]

Jimbo
Maybe not the person who invented the term, just the people who put it to practice.

And the excuse is always " for the shareholders"

Hi there
We can't always condemn shareholders -- sometimes businesses only get started if you find people who are prepared to take a risk and put up some of the money --they should deserve some sort of "reward".

I'm also not sure what the typical retirement pension is in the USA or in 'OZ but without some of the pension companies (also shareholders) being able to make profits people's retirement income would be really poor. -- Might not seem much to people who are say in their mid 20's or younger -- but remember with decent living and health care standards you could find you live as long AFTER retirement as you are working -- where I am it's quite common for people to live well into their 80's and 90's and are still very healthy. Say you start work (full time) at 21 and work till 65 that's 34 years. You could easily live another 34 years after retirement. !!!

Where I disagree with some of the commercial practices is people making a short term "quick buck" regardless of what the future good of the company is and above all sheer corporate Greed. Decent long term investment shouldn't be a problem really.

@Iforgot -- The Aussies seem to be closing in on a Ist test match victory currently -- even I am getting interested in this and I really know next to nothing about cricket. Watching on an Internet feed -- must admit some of my colleagues in the Bar I'm having my breakfast in haven't a clue what I'm watching !!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

Android is basically immune to virus by how it is made. The system partition is mounted as read-only, and there is no way of changing that without flashing stuff from outside to root the phone first (rooting= gaining admin privileges, or SuperUser as linux calls it).

This does not mean that your privacy is intact though. Especially because it's a Google's pet project.

Besides, doing backups of data is just making a copy. No need for fancy words or imaging software.

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer. That would be the apparent direction they are going.

It's a very basic cost-gain assessment. Doing like that allows them to pay less developers (as there are less features so less coding time used) while getting paid by third party companies to add their stuff on the tile ads.

Add piracy to the scheme, and what happens? they still get payed from the ads even if the OS is pirated!
You know how big is the userbase using pirated windows?

I smell amazing profits in this scheme. Besides, I mildly agree. I'm tired of MS pushing its software for the sake of it even if there are better and cheaper alternatives.

Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

I didn't see a EU court ruling that. They bashed a bit on Interent Explorer and browser choice, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

 

[jimbo45]

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

Android is basically immune to virus by how it is made. The system partition is mounted as read-only, and there is no way of changing that without flashing stuff from outside to root the phone first (rooting= gaining admin privileges, or SuperUser as linux calls it).

This does not mean that your privacy is intact though. Especially because it's a Google's pet project.

Besides, doing backups of data is just making a copy. No need for fancy words or imaging software.

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer. That would be the apparent direction they are going.

It's a very basic cost-gain assessment. Doing like that allows them to pay less developers (as there are less features so less coding time used) while getting paid by third party companies to add their stuff on the tile ads.

Add piracy to the scheme, and what happens? they still get payed from the ads even if the OS is pirated!
You know how big is the userbase using pirated windows?

I smell amazing profits in this scheme. Besides, I mildly agree. I'm tired of MS pushing its software for the sake of it even if there are better and cheaper alternatives.

Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

I didn't see a EU court ruling that. They bashed a bit on Interent Explorer and browser choice, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

Hi there
It was the EU --that's why you get that ridiculous Browser Choice screen thrust up when you install a European version of Windows or the first time you start IE.

Note also Android is only a variation of Linux so it's not 100% immune to Viruses. If you are running from a READ ONLY device then of course it can't be attacked however that doesn't mean to say that user installable applications can't contain viruses that can do unpredictable things - and on a phone where people tend to give out far more information than they would when they are at a Computer Terminal you could be very much more at risk.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any decent AV software for Android applications yet -- mind you most phone apps IMO are pretty junk anyway - except for a few travel ones and a SATNAV app.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Yes, EU courts ruled that specific thing (that I personally approve). But I don't see any EU court ruling that MS must stop doing anything else. I mean, there is no monopoly in imaging tools so it makes no sense to rule over that.

If you are running from a READ ONLY device then of course it can't be attacked however that doesn't mean to say that user installable applications can't contain viruses that can do unpredictable things

The only reason I say it's immune to virus itself is that the system partition is read-only. Even a windows 98 is immune to virus if it's read-only. Apps are run in their own VM space with no contact with other apps (they only talk with the system).

The only malware that can run on Android is scamware, that is an app disguising as another app, stealing info you input into it (or asking payments from the credit card you linked to the Google Play account).
Or stuff that runs on a rooted phone with some kind of consent from the user, as that removes any restriction.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any decent AV software for Android applications yet

That's because you just need a good firewall and a rooted phone to give it SU permission (and an app like SuperUser or similar to keep other apps without admin power). Then you lockdown access to internet to any app that does not need it. Also does wonders to in-app ads and to your mobile Internet bandwith.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
If I'm out in a Bar and using a phone what sort of Firewall should I be using -- what on earth is a Firewall on a public 4G system anyway -- the dangerous stuff is APPS passing out private data to person(s) / site(s) unknown. Any of these fairly poorly written apps are easily hackable -- Google has almost ZERO QC on the play store. Apple (if I'm allowed to say something good about Apple on these Forums) at least keeps a reasonable control over what gets loaded to an iPhone.

At home if your phone is going through your own Wifi system then you can keep a modicum of control but out in public you are 100% dependent on the service providers unless you have something on your phone - and with the OS in read only mode it's not really possible to install an AV into the kernel (without routing and modifying the OS).

However ANY application program can be fiddled to do extra stuff that wasn't what the downloaders were buying into.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

A firewall is just something that denies access to whatever according to its settings. How you connect to the internet is irrelevant. Windows Firewall anyone?

Good Android firewalls deny access to the internet to specific apps, using linux inbuilt firewall system. This prevents them from telling anyone whatever they may have gathered. To do so it needs root access (for obvious reasons).
This is the app I use and would recommend (as it has two settings per app, Wifi and 3G/mobile internet). Just try to lockdown the Google market app with it. It will no more connect to the store until you unblock it from the firewall.
There are firewalls that work even without root access, like this, but I rooted the device I own for the sake of it anyway.

However ANY application program can be fiddled to do extra stuff that wasn't what the downloaders were buying into.

Lying to customers into using scamware is the only thing that works on an unrooted phone, but if you get a firewall and lock it down, the app won't be able to relay data outside the device.

with the OS in read only mode it's not really possible to install an AV into the kernel

But with system in read-only and apps locked in their own VMs there is no need for an AV.
The only thing left is scams, and AV software cannot detect scams, as they work by tricking the user, not doing shady things like malware.

 

[Wenda]

...

@Iforgot -- The Aussies seem to be closing in on a Ist test match victory currently -- even I am getting interested in this and I really know next to nothing about cricket. Watching on an Internet feed -- must admit some of my colleagues in the Bar I'm having my breakfast in haven't a clue what I'm watching !!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

Top knock from our young 'newbie', eh, Jimbo.

That young bloke is a potential future Aussie captain in the making, methinks.

I said something similar about Ricky Ponting when he was a rookie, and look what happened there...


Wenda.

 

[Night Hawk]

Jimbo
Maybe not the person who invented the term, just the people who put it to practice.

And the excuse is always " for the shareholders"

Hi there
We can't always condemn shareholders -- sometimes businesses only get started if you find people who are prepared to take a risk and put up some of the money --they should deserve some sort of "reward".

I'm also not sure what the typical retirement pension is in the USA or in 'OZ but without some of the pension companies (also shareholders) being able to make profits people's retirement income would be really poor. -- Might not seem much to people who are say in their mid 20's or younger -- but remember with decent living and health care standards you could find you live as long AFTER retirement as you are working -- where I am it's quite common for people to live well into their 80's and 90's and are still very healthy. Say you start work (full time) at 21 and work till 65 that's 34 years. You could easily live another 34 years after retirement. !!!

Where I disagree with some of the commercial practices is people making a short term "quick buck" regardless of what the future good of the company is and above all sheer corporate Greed. Decent long term investment shouldn't be a problem really.

@Iforgot -- The Aussies seem to be closing in on a Ist test match victory currently -- even I am getting interested in this and I really know next to nothing about cricket. Watching on an Internet feed -- must admit some of my colleagues in the Bar I'm having my breakfast in haven't a clue what I'm watching !!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

No one said anything about shareholders since they do not run things but simply provide the mula for investment. They expect the company to perform in that direction and make them the big $$$$...!!!

The actual problem becomes apparent when companies start to lose their integrity as well as letting the innovation slide to become simply a "Profit House" while the quality and business practices suffer. Are we seeing that with one giant now stumbling for trying desperately to get in on the mobile market?

Sacrifice one of their main products they finally got right for some wild venture in some other direction as well as strip things out that the customer base has usually found right there for them. Well people also complained about how much Windows cost for each edition and now won't have to worry as much as the prices came down. But will they want the end result?

 

[PaulGo]

6 Reasons Why Windows 8.1 Failed Users



...Overall, Windows 8.1 seems to provide cosmetic changes, app upgrades and additions to the OS that really don’t address the fundamental problems with Windows 8. It seems Windows 8.1 just seeks to “improve” upon what we already know Windows 8 is instead of addressing concerns from users that the PC version is a mere touch screen OS port.
If Microsoft wanted to focus on the mobile market, they should’ve released a mobile-only OS instead of releasing Windows 8 for PCs. There was still room for improvements and changes to Windows 7 to compete on the OS market. Instead, Microsoft once again has proven its vision is more important than its functionality with Windows 8

6 Reasons Why Windows 8.1 Failed Users - Make Tech Easier

 

[jimbo45]

...

@Iforgot -- The Aussies seem to be closing in on a Ist test match victory currently -- even I am getting interested in this and I really know next to nothing about cricket. Watching on an Internet feed -- must admit some of my colleagues in the Bar I'm having my breakfast in haven't a clue what I'm watching !!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

Top knock from our young 'newbie', eh, Jimbo.

That young bloke is a potential future Aussie captain in the making, methinks.

I said something similar about Ricky Ponting when he was a rookie, and look what happened there...


Wenda.

Hi there
They didn't quite make it (by 14 I think) -- however rare for Brits -- almost EVERONE was willing the guy to get his 100 even though of course they didn't want to lose the Test Match. He apparently got a standing ovation - even from the Brit "Barmy Army" at the end of his magnificent innings. He scored 98 - a record for a Batsman at nr 11 - especially in a Test Match.

This Test Match is igniting Cricket interest in the most unlikely of places -- we had a FULL bar in Reykjavik last weekend glued to the TV - even though only about 3 in there (including me) knew anything about the game.

Anyway looking forward to the next one (Lord's in London on Thursday I think - and the weather looks good also).

Anyway to avoid going too much OT -- I noticed nobody were using tablets while the game was on and of course the Beer was flowing.

BTW I think we are the only country in the world to have a BEER Holiday -- this was due to the liberation of the Beer (Mar 1st 1989) -- it used to be prohibited - or only at very low alcohol percentage -- almost like alcohol free beer -- we of course imported it "illegally" from Greenland -- still a Danish province.

Now no problem of course. !!!

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/holiday-traditions-iceland-16065.html

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Nomad8459]

Ahhh, Cricket a very noble sport, Lancashire, here in England is famous for it, we used to have Shane Warne playing for what amounted to a village side!

On topic, Windows 8 is absolutely crud, I love the new Task Manager, and that is where it ends, Windows 7 is all the operating system I could want, dual booting with Mac OS X and there is no comparison. Windows 7 works, it works beautifully, I can do what I want with it, I can customise it, I actually LIKE it, believe it or not......

 

[gregrocker]

Hilarious how the thread now wants to discuss anything else to avoid the skunk in the living room.

The weather is hot and thunderstormy here in Florida and won't be much better this week when I get back to Boston tomorrow.

 

[Night Hawk]

Ahhh, Cricket a very noble sport, Lancashire, here in England is famous for it, we used to have Shane Warne playing for what amounted to a village side!

On topic, Windows 8 is absolutely crud, I love the new Task Manager, and that is where it ends, Windows 7 is all the operating system I could want, dual booting with Mac OS X and there is no comparison. Windows 7 works, it works beautifully, I can do what I want with it, I can customise it, I actually LIKE it, believe it or not......

The TM was long overdue for a new look. But it certainly wouldn't look so good having the older Legacy type look on tablet now would it?! Someone at MS finally got off their ... and updated things about it to make it look better. I noticed that as well as the new Lock screen and a few other things when first getting the 8 CP just being one of the things carried over to the 8.1 Preview.

Hilarious how the thread now wants to discuss anything else to avoid the skunk in the living room.

The weather is hot and thunderstormy here in Florida and won't be much better this week when I get back to Boston tomorrow.

Yes isn't that amazing how this is one version everyone would rather "avoid" compared to how Vista was bashed back in '07 by so many! Once you have had a good taste of 7 and find it does everything you want you would think MS would followed those lines of success. OOPS! Someone thought differently I guess! :sarc:

 

[Nomad8459]

With things moving towards tablets and touch screen, you are of course exactly right to mention that something new had to come about. Windows 8 probably caters for that element exceptionally well.

I am concerned by the idea however that in order to support these tablets and touch interfaces that the advances on legacy technology will be left to dissipate.

Maybe dual support is actually the answer, to give up totally on Desktop or Laptop interfaces, I do not believe is wise, I have an android smartphone that is touch screen, I love the OS, I love its ease of use, and despite being very reticent about touch screen interface, i havent had too many issues with it.

Windows is wise to realise that the market is moving that way, eventually, big 100inch touch screen monitors may replace the blackboard with small tablets replacing the chalkboard of old within classroom environments and we can say that this would be exciting and interesting for pupil and teacher alike, but progress doesnt move as quickly in all aspects of society and so the notion of maintaining a desktop/laptop OS (windows 7 and improvements there on) and also development of the touch interface may be the way forward for the short term.

Its interesting that Windows is contemplating allowing windows 7 to be shipped on some laptops, certainly when shopping recently for somebody wanting a new laptop, I could not get them the desired Windows 7, which I thought was a shame actually, its interesting also that Microsoft has had to realise this in some aspects.

I am sure there is a place for the development of 8 and certainly the market is moving that way, I just hope legacy is not left in the cold too quickly.

Also some industrial applications require the brute strength and robust technology that is outside tablet and touch screen at the moment, I doubt all the fans keeping my X6 cold and the heat generated from my GTX470 would compliment the slim designs of tablets....

Regards

 

[HammerHead]

Pre Installs

It's good that some manufacturers are providing a choice of OS. I just bought a MIS laptop with Win8 on it. Before buying I searched their website to see if Win7 drivers were available. Sure enough they were available. So I just wiped Win8 and installed Win7.

 

[mjf]

No one said anything about shareholders since they do not run things but simply provide the mula for investment. They expect the company to perform in that direction and make them the big $$$$...!!!

There generally are annual general meetings where shareholders do have a say. Then I hold shares in some coys and have never attended an annual general meeting. Of course the solitary investor has no clout at these meetings.
I would think the large financial investment institutions who invest on behalf of multiple shareholders have some clout.
What staggers me is the increase in MS share price and dividends
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=MSFT&a=02&b=13&c=2008&d=06&e=16&f=2013&g=m