System image installed on another partition...backup OS install?

[seligman]

It looks like a virus has damaged my uncle's Win7Pro 64bit system beyond repair so I'm going to have to reinstall Windows on a wiped hard drive. Unfortunately, no image was taken of the current installation before it got infected, so we'll be starting from scratch.

Here's the idea I had:
C partition (primary Windows 7 installation)
D partition (secondary Windows 7 installation, basically an image of the C partition)
E partition (documents and picture storage)

Would this be possible, and would you recommend it or not? The idea is if they ruined the C partition with a virus or malware again, they could boot to the D partition instead and immediately have a replacement backup OS configured with their same user accounts and programs that points to E for their document storage, just like the C partition. Other than not having access to newly-installed programs or files saved to the desktop, it would otherwise be equivalent.

I have the original Windows 7 Pro 64-bit disc since this is a homebuilt computer.

The kids are home schooled and rely heavily on this computer for everything school-related. I'm not always available to rescue them in a timely manner if something goes bad with the computer.

I'm looking for a solution that accomplishes two things: (1) easy for them to switch to and keeps downtime at an absolute minimum, and (2) doesn't require my immediate intervention and physical presence at their home to implement it.

I'm open to all other alternatives as well. Thanks in advance.

 

[theog]

Here's the idea I had:
C partition (primary Windows 7 installation)
D partition (secondary Windows 7 installation, basically an image of the C partition)
E partition (documents and picture storage)

NO, back up should not be on the same HDD.

 

[seligman]

Here's the idea I had:
C partition (primary Windows 7 installation)
D partition (secondary Windows 7 installation, basically an image of the C partition)
E partition (documents and picture storage)

NO, back up should not be on the same HDD.

Let me clarify my question. I would most definitely keep the image backed up on a separate external HDD somewhere.

I was asking whether I could also install the same image on the D partition now to serve as a backup OS installation if they screw up the C partition again. This may not be possible, or practical, or even a good idea for any number of reasons. I've never tried or considered it before, hence my question.

My uncle and his family do not have the technical knowledge to reinstall Windows using an image. I live 30 minutes away and our schedules don't always align for me to help them out. I'm looking for a way they can boot to a different, clean, installation of Windows -- on their own -- with minimal downtime involved.

 

[SIW2]

Not if you are using windows system image. Any other imaging program will do it. Or you can use a partition manager to copy the partition . Paragon does the job, ( Partition Wizard free version does also iirc.)

 

[seligman]

Not if you are using windows system image. Any other imaging program will do it. Or you can use a partition manager to copy the partition . Paragon does the job, ( Partition Wizard free version does also iirc.)

Thinking about this some more, won't there be drive letter conflicts if Windows and every installed program still believes it is installed on partition C when in fact it's on D?

 

[AddRAM]

Windows will not be on D, just the image you make of it.

You can teach someone how to restore windows from a disk image, it`s very easy.

If the only means you have to store a disk image on is the same drive but another partition, that`s perfectly fine, not the best practice, but perfectly fine.

 

[seligman]

Windows will not be on D, just the image you make of it.

The idea was to have Windows installed and operational on both C and D simultaneously so that if C failed they could boot D instead and continue about their business.

I never meant storing the image on D simply for storage purposes.

 

[DavidE]

A bootable (operational) secondary installation implies a dual-boot, and legally that requires 2 Win 7 licenses.
Are you willing to spend $ for another license so they can reboot "OS2", if they corrupt "OS1"?

Another option to consider is using a VM (Virtual Machine).
No matter which way you go, someone will need some "Tech training" to recover from a failed OS...
Even with a dual-boot, someone needs to know how/when/why to choose which OS to boot from.

Also consider, if malware is the problem, maybe the malware is smart enough to infect OS2 when OS1 is running...
That's one reason I always keep at least one copy of backup images offline...

 

[seligman]

A bootable (operational) secondary installation implies a dual-boot, and legally that requires 2 Win 7 licenses.
Are you willing to spend $ for another license so they can reboot "OS2", if they corrupt "OS1"?

I was thinking it would work for both since the motherboard would be identical, but your point is duly noted...

Another option to consider is using a VM (Virtual Machine).
No matter which way you go, someone will need some "Tech training" to recover from a failed OS...
Even with a dual-boot, someone needs to know how/when/why to choose which OS to boot from.

They could probably handle the latter with me coaching them through it, but as it was, they needed my help to access the BIOS the other night.

I'm sure most of the people reading this have been in my shoes at one time or another. I love my family but it's aggravating when they ignore my repeated advice to keep the virus and malware scanners up to date, then dump the problems in my lap later. As it stands now, I'm up to 13 hours and counting trying to rescue them from the current nightmare. Can't accomplish much when it takes ten minutes to boot into safe mode, only to be met with frequent BSOD's.

How would you reinstall Windows 7 for them if you were in my shoes? More specifically, what partitioning would you do on each drive and how would you handle the HDD images? They have a 1TB HDD and a 1TB external HDD with about 100 GB's of pictures and documents right now.

 

[gregrocker]

The Best Practice as implied is to store a Win7 backup or other image externally. If you want a copy of it on the same HD for portability this can work but requires the disk as RAM limitations may reject doing it from F8 http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/668-system-recovery-options.html so portability is limited by that.

 

[DavidE]

Restoring a System Backup Image with a program such as Macrium should not take very long, say 30 minutes or so...
You will need a bootable Recovery CD for whatever Imaging program you use, such as Macrium.
When you have a good backup image(s) and a bootable recovery disc, you should never need to reinstall Window.
Learn to restore an image yourself, and then if possible, teach them "hands-on" how to restore the system.
Document it for them, step by step, and make them do an actual restore, so they learn.
If malware is the biggest problem and you have to go into BIOS to fix things because of malware, I'm not sure what to say.

What real time Anti-Virus and Anti-Malmare programs are you using?
Any decent program should update definitions automatically.
There are free (or low cost) programs such as MS Security Essentials, Avast, Malwarebytes Pro, ... that do this.

Personally I store backup images on multiple HDs, so if any one HD fails I can still recover.
One of those backup locations is a partition on my main HD.
Some people may cringe at that, but imho an external HD is as likely to fail as the main internal HD.
99.99 % of the time I recover from an image saved on a different partition on the main HD.
I'm usually restoring to remove a program I installed and don't want, or made system changes that did not work out.
If that HD fails, or malware might have infected the online image, then I use an image from an offline HD.

If you can't teach them, I understand...
I'm a senior citizen and most of the people I help are 60-90 years old.
Some of them have children/grandchildren/friends that use the PC and do who knows what.
If I'm lucky, maybe I can get an answer to what one of them might have done to cause the problem I'm called to fix.
And, I'm thousands of miles away, trying to do this using Teamviewer and talking on the phone.
I'm doing good if I can explain how and why to burn a set of recovery discs for a pre-built, and then have to get them to go to BB and buy some discs.
So, I'm not able to drive 30 miles and get hands-on the PC.
Many times I replace their Anti-Virus and/or Anti-Malware programs(s).
I recommend MSE for most people - it's simple, light weight, free...
Maybe these folks need something a little more robust such as Avast free, but that is more complicated...
MBAM pro is a lifetime license, so it is very inexpensive - $25 or less, no annual renewal fees.

 

[seligman]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

They had AVG 2012 installed but as far as I can tell wasn't scheduled to run regular scans. That's my pet peeve about some of these programs, it's not always obvious how to schedule regular scans. I don't know if AVG automatically checked for updates in their case, or whether any virus scans were run manually. Malwarebytes (free) was installed too but I don't think they ever used it. Their Java and Adobe Flash versions were ancient (2+ years old) and I suspect that's how the viruses/malware got in.

How much room would you leave in extra partitions to store the HDD images? On the primary HDD, would you do C, D, E with D being HDD image(s) and E for documents and pictures?

What size should each partition be on a 1 TB drive?

 

[DavidE]

A backup image uses apx. 60% of the space used on the partition.
For me the C (OS+programs) partition uses ~40 GB, so a backup image is 20+ GB.
I like 100-120 GB for the C partition to allow for growth.

You need to see how much space they are using for their partitions.
Then decide how many backup images you want to keep, and plan space accordingly.
For data backups, imaging may not be the best solution, but it can be used.

Yea, some programs can be difficult to find all the settings and make sure they are set the way you want them.
I can't comment on AVG, I've never used it.
Avast is difficult and they like to re-design the UI every year making it more fun.
I will say Avast auto updates and scans work very well.
MSE is much simpler to set up...
MBAM Pro is also pretty easy to configure.
Might be worth considering spending a few bucks for MBAM Pro to get Real-Time protection, Auto Updates, and Scheduled scans.

No matter what, someone needs to take responsibility for periodically checking that all Updates are applied, and Security scans are clean.
2 years out of date for Java and Flash is like having a malware magnet.

I use these programs at least monthly to check for out of date programs:
Free Computer Security - Personal Software Inspector (PSI) - Secunia (I use the older Ver 2.0)
FileHippo.com Update Checker - FileHippo.com

I help some people remotely using Teamviewer and make sure their PCs are up to date and scanned.
TeamViewer - Free Remote Control, Remote Access & Online Meetings

 

[SIW2]

If you are looking for a free imaging program, Aomei Backupper is excellent. Best Free Backup Software for Windows 8, 7, Vista, XP and Server 2003, 2008, 2012

If you need a bunch of esoteric features, you could look to paid program, I use Paragon HDM Pro.

Sounds like you intend to make one image and keep it on a separate partition, which can be restored simply
Compression will vary depending what is on the source partition , but typically images will be about 50-60% of the used space on the source drive.

You could add the bootable .wim that Aomei makes to the boot menu, so it can be acessed via windows boot menu. Always a good idea to have it on separate media as well, in case windows boot management isn't working.