Solved Win7 keeps on putting system partition on hybrid ssd

[eatup]

This is happening b/c I wiped my hybrid hard drive and need to reinstall windows:

Windows 7 keeps on putting the 100MB system partition on the ssd part of my hybrid drive, even though I'm installing on the mechanical part. The problem is, the bios doesn't recognize the ssd, so I can't boot into windows 7 after a fresh install. Using diskpart to offline the ssd doesn't help (Win 7 will refuse to install if ssd is offline). How can I get around this problem? Is it possible to pre-create the system partition or move it to the mechanical drive? How?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Is it possible to pre-create the system partition or move it to the mechanical drive? How?

That was kinda sorta how I did it. Since my Lenovo G570 notebook had very little in the way of bloatware but did have proprietary programs I wanted to keep, before I installed my SSHD in it, I restored the original HDD to the factory state (after making an image of the drive first, just in case things went pear shaped), cleaned it up, made all my settings, reset my partition sizes, then cloned it to the SSHD using Macrium Reflect (which has an excellent free version, btw) and installed it in the notebook. It worked great.

 

[gregrocker]

You may need to break the RAID by changing SATA controller in BIOS setup to AHCI first, then the SSD chip will show up so you can partition it Logical which can not accept the Active flag or boot files for Win7, forcing them onto the Win7 target partition if it's next in line - unplug any other drives to be sure. Partition / Extended : Logical Drives - Windows 7 Forums

Is this IRST caching SSD? If so we've helped some users install Win7 onto it with select programs and they report better performance than with the IRST caching on SSD. It might be worth giving a try as an experiment to use the SSD. If that case you'd partition and select it during booted Clean Install Windows 7

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The "SSD" chip isn't a discrete component that shows up as a separate drive or as part of a RAID; it's a built in cache for the HDD portion of the drive. When an SSHD is installed, all one sees is a single drive, no matter where one looks for it (at least, that was all I saw with mine). There is only on SATA data connector on an SSHD and two would be needed to treat the "SSD" as a separate drive.

I'm not entirely convinced what the OP is describing is what is actually happening, even though the results may be the same, since I don't see how two drives can be seen in Disk Management or in the UEFI/BIOS. If two partitions are showing, I don't see how one can tell one is on the "SSD" or not. The quick and dirty way to rule out the SSHD as being the problem (or not) would be to replace it with a HDD and do the clean install there. Once everything is working on the HDD, clone it to the SSHD and reinstall it in the computer.

 

[gregrocker]

There must be different SSD caching configurations, since with IRST we've been able to unRAID it, set SATA controller to AHCI, see the drive displayed during install, even install to it.

Anak has much experience with this and Sandeep from Dell has a couple of tutorials I'll try to find about reinstalling w/o IRST caching drive. I'll also ask them to look in to see if that even applies here, and/or explain how it differs.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Ok, I got ambitious (and curious) and dug out my notebook where my SSHD (Seagate Hybrid ST500LM000 500GB) is currently residing (you had better feel privileged because I don't get ambitious for very many people, especially at oh my gosh thirty ). I checked the BIOS and it shows the SSHD as only one drive. Couldn't really do anything in there other than look because it's BIOS, not UEFI. I then checked in Disk Management again and all I saw was one drive with four partitions: the 100MB boot, C:, D:, and recovery partitions.

 

[SandeepP]

This is happening b/c I wiped my hybrid hard drive and need to reinstall windows:

Windows 7 keeps on putting the 100MB system partition on the ssd part of my hybrid drive, even though I'm installing on the mechanical part. The problem is, the bios doesn't recognize the ssd, so I can't boot into windows 7 after a fresh install. Using diskpart to offline the ssd doesn't help (Win 7 will refuse to install if ssd is offline). How can I get around this problem? Is it possible to pre-create the system partition or move it to the mechanical drive? How?

Hi hirobo2,

Welcome to Seven forums.

First of all let us know if you are using a hybrid drive or two separate drives SSD and SATA. As hybrid drive is a single drive mixture of both the technology where harddrive firmware decides what data should go on the SSD and which one on the SATA.

You would only see one drive on the system if using Hybrid drive so relocating the system partition is not even possible.

It would be better if you share the more information about the storage on your system and more detailed explanation of the issue.

Kindly update your system specs here by following this.

Keep us posted with the results so we can advise you further.

 

[Anak]

Hi hirobo2, welcome to 7F!

This is happening b/c I wiped my hybrid hard drive and need to reinstall windows:

Windows 7 keeps on putting the 100MB system partition on the ssd part of my hybrid drive, even though I'm installing on the mechanical part. The problem is, the bios doesn't recognize the ssd, so I can't boot into windows 7 after a fresh install. Using diskpart to offline the ssd doesn't help (Win 7 will refuse to install if ssd is offline). How can I get around this problem? Is it possible to pre-create the system partition or move it to the mechanical drive? How?

Depending on the make/model of your SSHD, this is normal behaviour:

Existing hybrid solutions from Seagate and Toshiba manage caching at the drive level, with the firmware determining what gets put in the flash.

WD has taken a different path: it uses driver software to control the caching scheme. According to Rutledge, WD wanted its solution to be closer to the user and to the file system.

This driver-based approach doesn't have low-level visibility on how data is organized on the SSHD's mechanical platters. However, it receives "hints" from the operating system about whether files contain so-called hot data that should be cached. Data for both read and write requests can be cached.

Source: WD explains hybrid tech behind Black SSHDs - The Tech Report

Read "hot data" as the system reserve partition (SRP). Yours is the first query into this area and I'm not quite up to speed on your type of situation.

The SRP provides three crucial functions for your system, they are:

1. The Boot Configuration Data Store (BCD), this contains boot configuration parameters and controls how the operating system is started,
2. BitLocker Drive Encryption, in case you want to encrypt your drive, and
3. The Windows Recovery Environment.

So it is logical that your SSHD wants to place the SRP in the flash/caching section of your SSHD to provide a quicker boot.

I would think if you allowed the OS installation to proceed on its own the SSHD's firmware/driver and the OS will figure out where to place the various components of the OS install, just as Lady Fitzgerald found out in her "oh my gosh thirty" investigation.

Are you allowing the install to take place normally, and it still won't boot? Then this could be an alignment problem: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/113967-ssd-alignment.html or: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/91339-ssd-hdd-optimize-windows-reinstallation.html

To answer gregrocker's question:

I'll try to find about reinstalling w/o IRST caching drive. I'll also ask them to look in to see if that even applies here, and/or explain how it differs.

I don't believe it would apply here because we are dealing with a cache that is built into the Drive, with IRST technology the cache is on special chipsets and follows a chipset to CPU, to ram to HDD hierarchy. With SSHD's this is centralized into one unit, Solid State and mechanical with ram on standby in case it's needed.


hirobo2, as per Sandeep's request:

   Note

1.) It would be better if you share the more information about the storage on your system and more detailed explanation of the issue.

2.) Kindly update your system specs here by following this.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...I would think if you allowed the OS installation to proceed on its own the SSHD's firmware/driver and the OS will figure out where to place the various components of the OS install, just as Lady Fitzgerald found out in her "oh my gosh thirty" investigation...

Actually, the unholy hour investigation was just to verify my aging memory of what I had seen before and take a closer look in the BIOS (stupid curiosity). I didn't do a clean install directly to my SSHD so I can't say if a clean installation wouldn't have gone the way of the OP's installation.

Interesting that WD will allow user control of what gets put on the NAND of their SSHD. I don't regret getting the Seagate because the WD isn't out just yet and I never embrace new technology when it first comes out, preferring to let others be the guinea pigs, and almost never while what I have still works for me (yeah, I'm that cheap).

 

[whs]

Run these commands in elevated command prompt and then install to that defined partition. Then you get no 100MB system partition.

Diskpart
List disk
Select disk n (where n is the number that was given for your target disk in List disk)
Clean
Create partition primary size=x (this is optional. "x" is in MBs)
Format fs=ntfs quick
Active
Exit

 

[eatup]

@whs. That did the trick. What I did was pre-create a 100MB partition on the mechanical using those tricks. The 100MB partition sorta irks me a little, but it's no biggie...

 

[gregrocker]

The SRP provides three crucial functions for your system, they are:

1. The Boot Configuration Data Store (BCD), this contains boot configuration parameters and controls how the operating system is started,
2. BitLocker Drive Encryption, in case you want to encrypt your drive, and
3. The Windows Recovery Environment.

So it is logical that your SSHD wants to place the SRP in the flash/caching section of your SSHD to provide a quicker boot.

Thanks Anak for explaining the difference with the chip onboard the HDD, and how the System Reserved partition is likely directed to the SSD chip to speed up boot.

Given this analysis it would be interesting to see if boot speed is faster with the SRP placed on SSD chip rather than in the HDD as it may have done by partitioning out the SRP.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Given this analysis it would be interesting to see if boot speed is faster with the SRP placed on SSD chip rather than in the HDD as it may have done by partitioning out the SRP.

While I can't say for sure, I suspect everything gets put on the HDD portion initially and some gets moved by the firmware to the NAND, based on usage. What I can say for sure is the boot speed on my SSHD has improved since I installed it. When I first installed it, it booted at the same speed as the original HDD, which in itself is encouraging since many reviewers experienced a significant reduction in initial boot times before the SSHD eventually "learned" to boot faster. After only six restarts, I'm noticing an improvement.

The big improvement, so far, has been on my two really pokey programs to open now open extremely fast. MediaMonkey and calibre (both have huge data bases) used to take 30-45 seconds to open. From the word go, they took only five seconds or less to open. That alone has justified getting the SSHD.

 

[whs]

@whs. That did the trick. What I did was pre-create a 100MB partition on the mechanical using those tricks. The 100MB partition sorta irks me a little, but it's no biggie...

I am glad it worked. Happy surfing.

 

[Anak]

Run these commands in elevated command prompt and then install to that defined partition. Then you get no 100MB system partition.

Diskpart
List disk
Select disk n (where n is the number that was given for your target disk in List disk)
Clean
Create partition primary size=x(this is optional. "x" is in MBs)
Format fs=ntfs quick
Active
Exit

@whs. That did the trick. What I did was pre-create a 100MB partition on the mechanical using those tricks. The 100MB partition sorta irks me a little, but it's no biggie...

Great work whs, an Elegant solution!

I was so caught up in trying to explain the peculiarities of hybrid hard-drives I "couldn't see the forest for the tree's".

If you, hirobo2 or anyone else could explain so its clear to me:

• When hirobo2 re-installed the OS, does the install place the system reserved into the created partition or is it empty?
• If it is empty, how does the OS boot?

 

[Layback Bear]

Great question Anak.
My 3 brain cells hasn't got a grip on how this is done in a normal fashion of installing Windows 7.

 

[SandeepP]

@whs. That did the trick. What I did was pre-create a 100MB partition on the mechanical using those tricks. The 100MB partition sorta irks me a little, but it's no biggie...

Hi hirobo2,

Its great to hear it worked fine and you were able to get the system partition on the SSD part of your hybrid drive.

If you have any further queries in future feel free to reach out to us.

 

[gregrocker]

Wouldn't you want the 100mb SysReserved partition on the SSD to make the boot faster, as explained by Anak earlier?

How does boot speed compare now with when the PC was new with SysReserved on SSD?

 

[whs]

As far as I know, the SSD part of a hybrid disk serves as a buffer (cache) to the HDD and is not seperately addressable. The buffering is completely controlled by the hardware. I doubt very much that the SSD part can be seperately set in the BIOS.

If anyone has different information, I would be interested to learn.