Solved Image your system with free Macrium

[Electron]

Thanks essenbe and whs for the help. When I mentioned buying another 1 TB internal disk, that would be the potential restore disk should my current disk drive ever fail.

My concern is not storing the image file somewhere but rather restoring it and then booting from it.

At present I am storing images on an external 500 GB Seagate backup drive.

I believe essenbe is saying that it is OK as long as the new boot disk is larger than the restored image file. It would then boot up and work like the original disk.

 

[kado897]

Yes that is correct.

 

[whs]

Just make sure that you do not forget to image/restore the 100MB system partition. You need that plus the C partition for an operational system.

 

[kado897]

A good point.

 

[Electron]

Thanks all again for the help. The more I think about Imaging the more complex it seems.

If you looked at one of our Windows 7 disks, the first 70 GB might be mostly filled up followed by empty space and then more files which are often restore points, system files, or new data. Let's assume for the moment that all data is below the 500 GB point on a 1 TB disk.

That empty space in the first half of the disk is not actually stored in the Image file, but I assume it reappears in the restored image. If the image is written to a 500 GB disk, everything would fit but with little empty space after the last files on disk.

I believe everyone is stating that Macrium would image a 1 TB disk to 500 GB disk in this way and that it would boot and run the same.

But aren't there other factors such as the MBR? The MBR knows about things like partition size so I wonder if Macrium has to make changes to the MBR. Lastly, Windows usually detects all hardware changes so I wonder how that impacts the first boot.

 

[SIW2]

1) Restore image to Same machine;

Windows will be fine if restored to the same or different HD on the same machine.
All imaging programs will take care of the details. It will boot up fine on the same machine.

2) Restore image to different machine:

You might have trouble restoring to machine with a different motherboard.
If you transfer to different machine/motherboard, most imaging programs have a function to cope with that - but only in the paid versions as a rule. You will also need to reactivate windows, which sometimes means calling MS on a toll free number to get them to do it for you. Type slui 4 at cmd prompt to get the toll free number.

 

[whs]

Thanks all again for the help. The more I think about Imaging the more complex it seems.

If you looked at one of our Windows 7 disks, the first 70 GB might be mostly filled up followed by empty space and then more files which are often restore points, system files, or new data. Let's assume for the moment that all data is below the 500 GB point on a 1 TB disk.

That empty space in the first half of the disk is not actually stored in the Image file, but I assume it reappears in the restored image. If the image is written to a 500 GB disk, everything would fit but with little empty space after the last files on disk.

I believe everyone is stating that Macrium would image a 1 TB disk to 500 GB disk in this way and that it would boot and run the same.

But aren't there other factors such as the MBR? The MBR knows about things like partition size so I wonder if Macrium has to make changes to the MBR. Lastly, Windows usually detects all hardware changes so I wonder how that impacts the first boot.

You are complicating your life. Why don't you just make an image and let Macrium take care of the rest. It has worked thousands of time - so why wouldn't it work for you.

All you need to know is that the image is appr. 65% of all data in your C partition (OS, system generated data, your own data - it does not matter) and that you can restore the image where the full data content fits (not the 65%). All other settings like MBR etc. are automatically taken care of during the restore. You don't worry about the MBR during the installation of the OS - do you ??

 

[Electron]

Thanks once again, and you're right that I should just use the program and forget the fine details of what really goes on.

Unfortunately, I worked in Engineering for many years and really like to understand as much as I can. This is especially true in this case where I might be imaging onto a disk that is smaller than the original.

I've heard mention that the paid versions of the various imaging programs can work with different sized disks where the unpaid versions might not. I know that some of that might involve changes in partition sizes but one also wonders about the MBR.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Macrium Reflect will restore an image to a smaller disk as long as the destination disk is larger than the original data amount in the image. Example: You image a 1TB disk that has 350GB of data on it. You will be able to restore that image to a smaller disk as long as that disk has room for at least 350GB of data.

 

[whs]

Free Macrium can work with different size disks - since the last releases. And the MBR is dealt with at the recovery stage - similar to an original installation. You are reading too much into it. It is straight forward.

I suggest you study what happens between the MBR > active partition > bootmgr > OS. Maybe then you will see that this is no rocket science.

 

[Electron]

Example: You image a 1TB disk that has 350GB of data on it. You will be able to restore that image to a smaller disk as long as that disk has room for at least 350GB of data.

Now we are getting into the interesting details.

Do you mean just 350 GB of actual file data, or more specifically all inner data plus unused sectors plus outermost data that resides within a 350 GB radius on the disk. I'm assuming that no files are moved which would require changes to whatever table is used to reference file locations.

 

[SIW2]

Normally you would image used sectors. That is default for any decent imaging program.

It is possible to image all sectors, no point unless you want it for forensic analysis.

 

[mjf]

When I mentioned buying another 1 TB internal disk, that would be the potential restore disk should my current disk drive ever fail.

If this is still your goal then you should make a partition up the front of the new 1TB to take a Macrium system image restore. If your OS partition is using more than say 100GB then it's too large IMO and you are imaging data which should be stored elsewhere. 200GB should be plenty for the first partition. If you need to reimage to this partition (on the 1TB) then what was on there previously will be gone.
The other partition(s) presumably would have data on it which you'd want in tact when the day came to use the first partition of this drive as your OS drive.

Note: Macrium will do this. Windows inbuilt imaging will not.

 

[Electron]

SIW2 - I agree that these programs are only imaging used sectors. However, I believe they may be inserting a lot of empty sectors between data during the restore process so that the restored image is identical to the original. That would all be part of the compression process. That observation then argues my point that the new disk must be at least as large as the fraction of the original disk that was being used including empty sectors between used sectors.

mjf - Thanks for the information and observations including Macrium versus Windows 7 capabilities. My Windows 7 disk is currently using about 70 GB on a 1 TB disk. I like your idea about creating partitions so that a portion of the drive could be used for functions other than the imaged operating system.

Since my images are stored on a USB backup drive, I really don't need to partition either internal drive although I can now see the benefit.

Your suggestion on the 200 GB Windows partition does really have a benefit compared with my current single partition setup. This is because I have a large empty space between most of the used sectors and other used sectors in the middle of the drive. That would increase the partition size required in the replacement disk.

 

[SIW2]

Yes, of course, the target partition must be at least the size of the used sectors of the source partition.

No need to stick a lot of unused sectors back.

 

[Electron]

Yes, of course, the target partition must be at least the size of the used sectors of the source partition. No need to stick a lot of unused sectors back.

I may not have explained my situation well enough for everyone to understand. My system has a 1 TB disk with a single partition. Windows has placed most of the files at the beginning of the disk but there are some files out in the middle. There is a large empty space in between.

I view this with the Auslogics Defragmenter program which shows a "map" of the clusters on the drive. The files out in the middle of the drive are mostly marked "unmovable" and I believe include Restore Points and some other files.

If this arrangement was perfectly imaged to another disk, I believe it would require roughly a 500 GB partition even though Windows is currently only using about 70 GB. I'm assuming that Macrium does not move any files and especially unmovable files.

Am I correct that this situation would require a 500 GB disk or partition? My feeling is that Window's current usage of about 70 GB is not very relevant in this kind of situation with a single large partition and some files out in the middle of the disk.

 

[kado897]

my understanding is that the placement of the data is irrelevant it is the quantity that matters.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

my understanding is that the placement of the data is irrelevant it is the quantity that matters.

Seriously, methinks you are over thinking this. Many of us here, including me, have used Macrium Reflect to restore disks and move data to new disks without problems.

 

[kado897]

If still in doubt read this article. v5: How to restore a backup image (Restore, v5). Particularly the section on modifying the partition.

 

[Electron]

my understanding is that the placement of the data is irrelevant it is the quantity that matters.

That seems to be what everyone is saying but that would require that some files are moved to different locations as part of the restore process. In that case the Original Partition and Imaged Partition would not be identical.

Can Macrium move files to accomplish that? What about the unmovable files that I have near the center (approximate 500 GB point) of my 1TB disk as described above?