Windows 10: The next chapter - 21st Jan Live event Discussion

[GeneO]

There is an additional aspect to their one OS with continuous updates. That is less development pain.

Right now with XP, Vista W8 and W8.1 out there they have to constantly worry about backwards compatibility which is a real pain for a developer. Worrysome because the customers will not move away from their old OS if their programs do not work in the new OS. Especially large companies have a big investment in own programs. And also in training of their personal.

Once they have rounded them all up to the new W10 with continuous upgrades, most of that problem goes away. I think it is a smart strategy.

After 35 years in mainframe OS development I know how painful backwards compatibility can be - plus the pain and cost of maintaining several operating systems that are 'current' at the same time.

The problem will still remain (at least for the user). They can't support outdated hardware forever and at the same time adopt new technology and move forward. They will still have to drop support for things as they move forward.

 

[whs]

That is correct at the hardware level. But the OS face towards the user (program interface) need not change. If the user has some old banger hardware, that may become obsolete though.

 

[GeneO]

Well I think that the interface must change over time. Look at it now and the hardware enables new types of interfaces - mouse+keyboard -> touch pad or screen + virtual keyboard -> Cortana + virtual reality etc. But if you are talking about the software interfaces - that has to evolve as well to enable more complex and different types of applications. You just can't evolve anything without breaking compatibility at some point.

 

[whs]

No doubt the interface has to evelve as technology presents new technologies. But that does not mean that you have to break the existing facilities - just enhance them. And for a program that does not use the new technology, it should not matter.

But the devil is in the detail. I just think a single evolving system is easier to keep under control than a set of different successive operating systems. It is in the nature of the developers - the new guys care less what the previous guys have done. In a single system that can be controlled.

 

[bigmck]

My concern is that if I install Windows 10 and don't like it, can I go back to Win 7. It is hard going from Win 8 back to Win 7. Will this be the same thing?

Yep. Just format and reinstall as usual.

How about restoring an image.

I don't know anything about 8.1, but doesn't it do something to your Bios and a restore would not be the only thing that has to be done? I was just wondering if W 10 might have the same thing. If a restore puts you back to W 7, that is great. I guess I am worrying about something that I don't need to be concerned with now.

 

[Wordsworth]

There is an additional aspect to their one OS with continuous updates. That is less development pain.

Right now with XP, Vista W8 and W8.1 out there they have to constantly worry about backwards compatibility which is a real pain for a developer. Worrysome because the customers will not move away from their old OS if their programs do not work in the new OS. Especially large companies have a big investment in own programs. And also in training of their personal.

Once they have rounded them all up to the new W10 with continuous upgrades, most of that problem goes away. I think it is a smart strategy.

After 35 years in mainframe OS development I know how painful backwards compatibility can be - plus the pain and cost of maintaining several operating systems that are 'current' at the same time.

I was thinking that last night as well. Microsoft's one-year long offer is also intended to attempt getting as many on board with 10 as possible. Any resources they can move away from legacy stuff is the better for new product development. Having been in automotive engineering I can understand wanting to move resources to new product. I always enjoyed reaching the point of handing off legacy/maintenance stuff and digging into an all new program.

 

[PeaB4YouGo]

Well I think that the interface must change over time. Look at it now and the hardware enables new types of interfaces - mouse+keyboard -> touch pad or screen + virtual keyboard -> Cortana + virtual reality etc. But if you are talking about the software interfaces - that has to evolve as well to enable more complex and different types of applications. You just can't evolve anything without breaking compatibility at some point.

In order to run the Tech Preview, MS says that if your system runs 8.1, then you already have the minimum HW specs. Has there been any sort of indication of what the minimum specs will need to be to run the final release? My system is over 6 yrs old. I like the idea of upgrading to 10, but if my system won't handle it (or, it won't handle my system) I won't be able to jump on board until Uncle Ernie sets me up in his will....

 

[groze]

Bad news people you will be only able to install windows 10 free version through windows update only. That is my interpretation. This make me very:mad2:. I was really considering trying the consumer preview when it comes out and maybe getting the free version but I wanted either a flash drive or dvd install not a windows update installation. My final decision is I am sticking with windows 7 for the life of my computer, with one exception if the update is really cheap and comes on DVD or Flash drive.


https://winpreview.catalysis.com/registration.aspx?hfid=WRF0&loc=en-US

Located at the bottom.

*It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months.

 

[gregrocker]

We've been able to get ISO's for all versions of Windows 10 Technical Preview so far at Windows 10 Forums. So I'd follow along there.

The latest build's ISO file along with tools to burn or write to DVD or flash stick is kept current in Clean Install Windows 10 Technical Preview.

For interim builds that don't yet have ISO's the ability to create one from the files pushed through by Preview Updates is tracked in ESD to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 ESD File.

I hope this helps.

 

[groze]

We've been able to get ISO's for all versions of Windows 10 Technical Preview so far at Windows 10 Forums. So I'd follow along there.

The latest build's ISO file along with tools to burn or write to DVD or flash stick is kept current in Clean Install Windows 10 Technical Preview.

For interim builds that don't yet have ISO's the ability to create one from the files pushed through by Preview Updates is tracked in ESD to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 ESD File.

I hope this helps.

Gregrocker,

I am not talking about getting an ISO for the windows 10 preview or consumer preview that still going to happen. When windows 10 is released they are going make the free version only available through windows update. Windows update will install windows 10 release version automatically. I really don't like that.

 

[whs]

I am not talking about getting an ISO for the windows 10 preview or consumer preview that still going to happen. When windows 10 is released they are going make the free version only available through windows update. Windows update will install windows 10 release version automatically. I really don't like that.

I see your point but I do not think it is as dramatic as you make it. I am not a friend of update/installs, but you can always make an image of your system before you run the update. And if you run e.g. 8.1 in virtual like I do it is even easier. You just ,make a copy of the virtual partition folder(s).

The real question is whether they will deactivate the key for the old system. Then you are stuck if you want to bring it back to life. If they are smart. they will do that because they want to commit you to the new W10.

 

[groze]

I am not talking about getting an ISO for the windows 10 preview or consumer preview that still going to happen. When windows 10 is released they are going make the free version only available through windows update. Windows update will install windows 10 release version automatically. I really don't like that.

I see your point but I do not think it is as dramatic as you make it. I am not a friend of update/installs, but you can always make an image of your system before you run the update. And if you run e.g. 8.1 in virtual like I do it is even easier. You just ,make a copy of the virtual partition folder(s).

The real question is whether they will deactivate the key for the old system. Then you are stuck if you want to bring it back to life. If they are smart. they will do that because they want to commit you to the new W10.

I wasn't trying to be dramatic a lot of people want to do a clean install using a dvd or flash drive that was my main point.


Sorry, I may not explain this well but I will try my best.
I also read they could turn off some OEMS but not all. For example my dell comes pre-activated even when doing a clean install with the re-installation disk that I got from dell. If Microsoft turned off my preinstalled Master OEM key, It would turn off all other dell machines that have windows 7 pre-installed & pre-activated. It would make those systems non-genuine. I don't think Microsoft would do that.

 

[whs]

We don't really know what they are going to do. One version I could think of is that they register the key of the existing installation for W10. That would make it used and thus useless for the original system - just speculating.

 

[groze]

I see what you are saying WHS, on those systems I mentioned you will have to use the key on the back of your computer before windows 10 will install, this way you can't go back unless you have another OEM key or a retail version. I just hope they don't have any OEM duplicate keys out there.

 

[whs]

Good point.

 

[bigmck]

We've been able to get ISO's for all versions of Windows 10 Technical Preview so far at Windows 10 Forums. So I'd follow along there.

The latest build's ISO file along with tools to burn or write to DVD or flash stick is kept current in Clean Install Windows 10 Technical Preview.

For interim builds that don't yet have ISO's the ability to create one from the files pushed through by Preview Updates is tracked in ESD to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 ESD File.

I hope this helps.

Greg, do you think the final Win 10 will be available in an ISO in addition to an Update?

 

[ThrashZone]

I believe the upgrade install has options to do clean or keep personal files and programs,
Cheers.

 

[gregrocker]

Yes, I can't imagine there not being a method to Clean Install. While I can't divulge sessions with them at Global MVP Summit, the WIndows 10 Team was in general agreement that it's in MS interests to allow consumers to have the cleanest possible install. I passionately appealed to them to let any Refresh be OS-only and not the Factory OEM image, to which they were surprisingly open.

I also can't imagine them taking away Win7's license under any circumstances and think the courts would have something to say about that. At least in Seven, if they'd had the ability to deactivate at Upgrade they surely would have instead of relying on the Honor System. This may require a whole new infrastructure that is prohibitively backward compatible. Those more familar with WIndows 8 licensing may have keener insight.

But Windows 10 even in pre-beta is already so good that I won't use Seven again, something I couldn't have ever have imagined saying until I installed it in October and never went back. Windows 10 is simply a better OS, a worthy successor and the future.

 

[matts6887]

Well; if it really is true that we can get a free upgrade from 7 to 10; then it does sound like a good deal; unless like one of the others mentioned; there is a catch to it.

 

[matts6887]

Yes, I can't imagine there not being a method to Clean Install. While I can't divulge sessions with them at Global MVP Summit, the WIndows 10 Team was in general agreement that it's in MS interests to allow consumers to have the cleanest possible install. I passionately appealed to them to let any Refresh be OS-only and not the Factory OEM image, to which they were surprisingly open.

I also can't imagine them taking away Win7's license under any circumstances and think the courts would have something to say about that. At least in Seven, if they'd had the ability to deactivate at Upgrade they surely would have instead of relying on the Honor System. This may require a whole new infrastructure that is prohibitively backward compatible. Those more familar with WIndows 8 licensing may have keener insight.

But Windows 10 even in pre-beta is already so good that I won't use Seven again, something I couldn't have ever have imagined saying until I installed it in October and never went back. Windows 10 is simply a better OS, a worthy successor and the future.

How would you compare it to 7? is the the user interface the same as 7? I am hoping it is at least somewhat.