Solved Windows 10: upgrade information

[DavidE]

What about Windows 10? I'm guessing the same. Yes, I saw those that I need to review. Should I worry about them?

As far as I know Win 10 requirements are the same as 8.1.
I wouldn't worry about them, most are just warnings of programs you will need to re-install or no longer available.
I don't know what "Remove authorized PC's" means for iTunes, but I don't use iTunes.

 

[Jesse Williams]

I can probably remove iTunes and and reinstall it when I do the upgrade.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Keep in mind that you can do both, keep your current system and get the free upgrade..............Basically, you would create an system image (a partition backup) of your machine with the current OS just the way you like it. Then upgrade to Win10 and create another system image with the machine upgraded to Win10. The two images allow you to switch back and forth by restoring the image.

By my reading, that implies that the "free upgrade" will not be available as a DVD or ISO that can be "clean installed" on bare metal by anyone who is a legit owner of so-called "retail" Windows 7 and has the relevant Product Key.

Is that what you mean and is that known for a fact? Any links re that specific point would be appreciated.

 

[Slartybart]

Keep in mind that you can do both, keep your current system and get the free upgrade..............Basically, you would create an system image (a partition backup) of your machine with the current OS just the way you like it. Then upgrade to Win10 and create another system image with the machine upgraded to Win10. The two images allow you to switch back and forth by restoring the image.

By my reading, that implies that the "free upgrade" will not be available as a DVD or ISO that can be "clean installed" on bare metal by anyone who is a legit owner of so-called "retail" Windows 7 and has the relevant Product Key.

Is that what you mean and is that known for a fact? Any links re that specific point would be appreciated.

That is also my understanding - it is an upgrade though some distribution cahnnel (WU, Anytime upgrade, or MS Store / catalogue ESD). I don't know if there will be an upgrade disc - probably, or how that disc would take advantage of the free upgrade offer.

edit: There will be a disc since you'll have to purchase Win10 if you don't take advantage of the free offer during the time it is offered. So - I answered my own question - yes, there will be a disc - no it will not be free.

But yes, the free upgrade in itself is not for a clean install. There are some smart folks around here that can help convert a WIM or ESD to an installable ISO, but going from Win7 to Win10 will also require some WU work prior to the upgrade. Win8 might also have some WU pre-reqs, just fewer.

I'll try to locate some links, but this is fairly new information. MS announced it in the Win10 Briefing on 21 Jan.
Here's the video: Windows 10: The Next Chapter

Lots of marketing and building excitement in the briefing.
There might not be any hard information about the free upgrade path on pages until they work things out.

Other information:
https://insider.windows.com/
Blogging Windows

 

[groze]

Slartybart
On Windows 7 sister forum windows 10, it has been reported. You have to start the free upgrade using Window 7 or 8.1 via windows update but you should have an option to do a clean install. My question becomes, since your drive got to be formatted or deleted where does Microsoft store the installation files when doing a clean install.

Myself, I would prefer upgrading using a dvd or usb 2.0 flash drive. I am not going to worry about any of this because I am not upgrading at this time.

 

[Slartybart]

Slartybart
On Windows 7 sister forum windows 10, it has been reported. You have to start the free upgrade using Window 7 or 8.1 via windows update but you should have an option to do a clean install. My question becomes, since your drive got to be formatted or deleted where does Microsoft store the installation files when doing a clean install.

Myself, I would prefer upgrading using a windows 10 operating system using a dvd or usb 2.0 flash drive. I am not going to worry about any of this because I am not upgrading at this time.

Thanks, Win8 and Win10 are a bit different from Win7 with regards to Repair Installs and clean installs.

Refresh = Repair install
Reinstall = Clean install

These are governed by the OS and controlled through Recovery. Once you have Win10 installed, sure ... the same options will be available.

I'm not sure if I follow your question.
When you upgrade, Windows will create the partition structure it needs. The Recovery information might be encrypted on a reserved partition. I'm not sure on those details (partition, encryption) but essentially Win8 and Win10 are self healing.

edit:There are other mechanisms on those OSes that aid in Recovery.
If catastrophe strikes and you lose your HDD, you can, in theory - I haven't tested it, recover your system using those additional Recovery features.

The same structure would be created on a clean install.

I don't want to cloud the free upgrade with a clean install. It would be difficult for MS to differentiate between an upgrade and clean install from a disc install (you would have to buy the disc - so it's no longer free).

I think the key distinction is that the free offer is time limited. Only by offering a downloaded upgrade can MS define the end of the offer. Sure, there could be checks and balances if someone acquired a disc and tried a free upgrade, but.... that is another piracy issue. Easier to only offer the upgrade though a particular channel.

Bill
.

 

[DavidE]

Keep in mind that you can do both, keep your current system and get the free upgrade..............Basically, you would create an system image (a partition backup) of your machine with the current OS just the way you like it. Then upgrade to Win10 and create another system image with the machine upgraded to Win10. The two images allow you to switch back and forth by restoring the image.

By my reading, that implies that the "free upgrade" will not be available as a DVD or ISO that can be "clean installed" on bare metal by anyone who is a legit owner of so-called "retail" Windows 7 and has the relevant Product Key.

Is that what you mean and is that known for a fact? Any links re that specific point would be appreciated.

That is also my understanding - it is an upgrade though some distribution cahnnel (WU, Anytime upgrade, or MS Store / catalogue ESD). I don't know if there will be an upgrade disc - probably, or how that disc would take advantage of the free upgrade offer.

edit: There will be a disc since you'll have to purchase Win10 if you don't take advantage of the free offer during the time it is offered. So - I answered my own question - yes, there will be a disc - no it will not be free.

I have a free Win 8 upgrade license and downloaded the ISO and created a bootable DVD installation disc.
With this a clean install can be done.
You do need the product key for the download.

If MS gives a person an activation key with the Win 10 free upgrade offer, they could do the same as they now do with a Win 8 upgrade license.

Here is the MS site I used for the Win 8 download:
Upgrade Windows with only a product key

 

[ignatzatsonic]

But yes, the free upgrade in itself is not for a clean install. There are some smart folks around here that can help convert a WIM or ESD to an installable ISO, but going from Win7 to Win10 will also require some WU work prior to the upgrade. Win8 might also have some WU pre-reqs, just fewer.

Imagine it's a year from today. Win 10 has been released. The "free upgrade" offer is in effect.

You've got a pile of new unused parts on your desk and intend to build a new PC running Win 10.

You want a clean install if at all possible.

What's the method?

Build, install retail Win 7, and then "upgrade" to 10 via Windows Update? No free-standing ISO that could be burned and installed directly, no DVD disc. Any later reinstallation due to failed hardware would be limited to image restoration or something similar since you don't and won't have an ISO/DVD?

Is that presumed to be the nearest thing you can get to a clean install on new hardware without paying?

In that scenario, can the retail Win 7 ever be activated on another unrelated pile of hardware, for instance as a "backup" PC?

Offhand, it looks like I may well prefer to pay to get a DVD/ISO that can be clean installed and readily re-installed, rather than use the "free upgrade".

Or does all of this remain a gray area, with no known answers as yet?

 

[groze]

ignatzatsonic

The free upgrade is only for a year. What everybody is not so sure of, what is the supported life of the device?, most computers outlive there operating systems, warranties and even last way longer than the supported life time of the device.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

ignatzatsonic

The free upgrade is only for a year. What everybody is not so sure of, what is the supported life of the device?, most computers outlive there operating systems, warranties and even last way longer than the supported life time of the device.

I'm well aware of the one year limit on the free upgrade. I didn't ask that question.

I need answers to the questions I did ask. Can you answer any of them authoritatively?

 

[Slartybart]

Imagine it's a year from today. Win 10 has been released. The "free upgrade" offer is in effect.

You've got a pile of new unused parts on your desk and intend to build a new PC running Win 10.

You want a clean install if at all possible.

What's the method?

Build, install retail Win 7, and then "upgrade" to 10 via Windows Update? No free-standing ISO that could be burned and installed directly, no DVD disc. Any later reinstallation due to failed hardware would be limited to image restoration or something similar since you don't and won't have an ISO/DVD?

Is that presumed to be the nearest thing you can get to a clean install on new hardware without paying?

That is my presumption if you go with the free update.
I'm sure the WIM / ESD gurus will figure out a way to create an ISO - we're just not there yet.

---

In that scenario, can the retail Win 7 ever be activated on another unrelated pile of hardware, for instance as a "backup" PC?

My guess, being a retail key, would be yes.
Win7 could be installed on another machine since you would only be running that license on one machine.

---

Offhand, it looks like I may well prefer to pay to get a DVD/ISO that can be clean installed and readily re-installed, rather than use the "free upgrade".

Or does all of this remain a gray area, with no known answers as yet?

You nailed it - that remains a gray area - until MS works out the details.

The big question is: How will Win10 handle keys ... will users receive a printed key or will Win10 have some intelligent method of key / authentication. Who knows? Microsoft and maybe not even them yet.

Good questions. I'm more than happy to answer questions here, I'm just one person though.
Have you visited TenForums? There are lots more members over there who have more information.

There is a lot of supposition at this point of the Preview. Our answers are biased on our experience. Win10 is a new thing, not Win7, not Win8 - When I answer a question, I have to stop and think
"Is this how it works in Win10 (current release), how it worked in Win10 (a previous release), how it works in Win8 or how I want Win10 to work".

The January preview release really makes Win10 a different animal - and that, IMO, is great news. Mindsets have to change with this change to Windows. Win10 is a paradigm shift and while MS is doing a good job trying to keep Windows familiar, there are changes required to move Windows forward.

Lots of things will change throughout the preview releases.

And now ... back to our regularly scheduled program.
Microsoft is offering a free Win10 upgrade - upgrade being a key distinction.

Bill
.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Good questions. I'm more than happy to answer questions here, I'm just one person though.
Have you visited TenForums? There are lots more members over there who have more information.

Thanks, Bill.

I read Ten Forums 2 or 3 times a week and will continue to do so.

I'm hoping this will shake out over the next few months. I'm going to build within one year, preferably with 10, so I'm eager to find out the finer points of what I'll face--much more so with licensing/installation/recovery than with operating the thing once it's up and configured. It looks like an awful lot is left up in the air at this point.

 

[Slartybart]

You're welcome ignatz,

Yep, check Tenforums (they seem to get and report news fairly fast)
And the other Microsoft Win10 pages (Indsider, TechNet evaluation, MS foums (Tech Preview), Indiser Hub, eMail from the insider program...).

It's always a good thing to plan and there's plenty of time to plan. The bad thing is that plans might fall apart when things change - not too bad really, you just have to change the plan. I guess what I'm saying is: It's too early to plan much in great detail.

What's new with the Windows 10 Technical Preview

The video on this page tells some of the stuff you and others might be interested in (hard facts from Microsoft)

The funny thing is, I couldn't watch it in Win10

​

 

[Jesse Williams]

How is Windows 10 going to run on 4 GB of Memory?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

How is Windows 10 going to run on 4 GB of Memory?

Pretty well.

I've never had more than 4 on a Win 7 machine and I'd be very surprised if 10 differed much.

I check periodically, and I'm not sure I've ever used as much as 3 of the 4. If I reboot and look, the used RAM is typically between 1 and 1.5.

 

[Jesse Williams]

Okay. Both of my PC's have 4 GB of memory (RAM).

 

[bigmck]

Okay. Both of my PC's have 4 GB of memory (RAM).

If there is a 32-bit Windows 10, 4 GB would have to work OK. That is all that 32-bit supports. I feel sure there will be a 32-bit.

 

[Jesse Williams]

Okay. Both of my PC's have 4 GB of memory (RAM).

If there is a 32-bit Windows 10, 4 GB would have to work OK. That is all that 32-bit supports. I feel sure there will be a 32-bit.

I have a 64-bit OS with 4 GB.

 

[groze]

Okay. Both of my PC's have 4 GB of memory (RAM).

If there is a 32-bit Windows 10, 4 GB would have to work OK. That is all that 32-bit supports. I feel sure there will be a 32-bit.

I have a 64-bit OS with 4 GB.

I also have a 64-bit OS with 4 GB. I had some issues but come to find out later it was the motherboard, which has been replaced by dell at no charge.

 

[margrave]

Generally, taking a box built for Windows version X and upgrading to version X+1 or X+2 gives reduced performance.

I have a four-year-old i7-920 running Windows 7, and it will stay there.
Windows 10 will be on my next box, sometime in the unforeseen future.