Why do Refurb PCs need a new Windows COA ?

[HodgePodge]

I'm curious as to why a refurb PC, like a Dell, HP, Lenovo, with an existing Win 7 COA, and all original parts, needs a new Win 7 COA refurb COA ? I thought the original COA applied when new, was good for the original hardware?

I've purchased several refurb PCs from large refurbers, and they all had the original COA, with a big X on it, and another new COA with refurbished on it.
Thanks

UPDATE..

"The original Microsoft (COA) attached to the PC does not allow you to reload Microsoft Windows software when no original recovery media is present. "
"When transferring the PC to the new end user, the software media, manuals (if applicable), and Certificate of Authenticity label must be included"

Looks like a refurber has to have the original install media to sell the PC with the original COA, otherwise they have to get a refurber COA. Of course, most makers of PCs no longer include the install media to original purchasers. So, the rules are different for refurbers and the OEM. And how about private sales from original owner to second owner, with no physical media? Are these sales technically illegal?

 

[Acecool]

It depends with what they mean by that, but the COA Label includes the code so if you have a Windows Installation Disc, you should have no trouble using it as long as it isn't in use on any other computer; ie the code is tied to the computer.

If you don't have a disc you can either buy one from Microsoft ( $15 I think ), or you can download one from Microsoft.com and burn it to a disc ( They provide these so you don't need to visit sketchy sites in order to create a backup of software you own a license to, which is allowed under Federal Law last time I checked [ Most software also states: Do not make ILLEGAL COPIES of the disc; which means you can't burn one for a friend or for resale, but you may make one for yourself so if the original is lost or broken, you still have access )

 

[fireberd]

With a refurb, in most cases the original product key (COA) has already been used and registered with the original owner. Thus they have to supply a different key with the refurb.

 

[HodgePodge]

Oh, I know what to do, done it plenty of times with various OEM. Dell, HP, Lenovo etc. I have the factory restore discs for windows 7 for these OEM. Most people don't know that the certificate and key codes are the same within an OEM win 7 restore disks for their various models. So, a Dell Win 7 restore disk for a laptop works on a desktop too. You still need to install drivers. All the OEM restore disks do is install the correct certificate and key for that particular OEM . This is legal to do so with an authentic COA on the case, and the PC came with the original OEM restore disks when you got it.

You can also install the certificate and keycode with various programs and just use a generic win 7 install media. Legal to do so with a authentic COA on the case. This works well, I've used it many times

As long as the bios is a SLIC V2.1, and it will be if the PC had Win 7 to began with, you have the valid certificate and key, you are good to go with the win 7 install

My reason for starting the thread was curiosity why a refurber could not use the original hardware with the original COA , why he had to purchase a MS refurber COA , and void the original COA, And the reason is MS requires the recovery media to accompany the PC when it sells on the secondary market. Most of the time the giant refurbers get the PCs from corporate lease returns, the drives are removed, and they have no restore media since most of the OEM no longer provide restore media unless you ask for it. I'm sure MS likes it this way. They get more fee income from selling refurb COA

"The original Microsoft (COA) attached to the PC does not allow you to reload Microsoft Windows software when no original recovery media is present. "
"When transferring the PC to the new end user, the software media, manuals (if applicable), and Certificate of Authenticity label must be included"

 

[bigmck]

It depends with what they mean by that, but the COA Label includes the code so if you have a Windows Installation Disc, you should have no trouble using it as long as it isn't in use on any other computer; ie the code is tied to the computer.

If you don't have a disc you can either buy one from Microsoft ( $15 I think ), or you can download one from Microsoft.com and burn it to a disc ( They provide these so you don't need to visit sketchy sites in order to create a backup of software you own a license to, which is allowed under Federal Law last time I checked [ Most software also states: Do not make ILLEGAL COPIES of the disc; which means you can't burn one for a friend or for resale, but you may make one for yourself so if the original is lost or broken, you still have access )

I don't think that is correct. There is no difference in burning a copy of your Win 7 for a friend or the friend D/L a copy from the Internet. Same file.

 

[HodgePodge]

With a refurb, in most cases the original product key (COA) has already been used and registered with the original owner. Thus they have to supply a different key with the refurb.

that's actually not correct, original owners of OEM machines do not get a unique key code at all, and I have proven this many times , as has that famous hacker who developed that famous Win 7 hack software, which I am not advocating using at all. For example, a Dell win 7 pro 64 bit restore disk from a 2009 laptop installs the same certificate and key as does a Dell win 7 pro 64 bit restore disk for a desktop from 2012
I have reinstalled many win 7 OS on various different Dell OEM machine models, using the same restore disk, and they all immediately verify authentic with or without web access. BUT, I know now that MS requires the original restore disk to accompany the PC as it sells in the secondary market. Having just the correct COA is not good enough. One might be able to order the restore media from the OEM, even if it is older. I have done this, until I discovered that I was getting the identical restore disk sent to me for different models.

In order to be legal , one needs to have the OEM restore discs with the machine and the valid COA on the case.

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...nd-windows-7-product-key?forum=w7itproinstall
"Hello,
No you are not expected to change it.
The OEM ( Dell in your case) uses the same key ( may be different between machine models, may not) on all the machines, which is tied to information in the BIOS of those machine to meet the activation requirement.
The key on the side of the machine does not need to be used unless there is an issue with the OEM activation process( the bios loses the signature, the key inside the OS is accidently removed or corrupted). The key on the side requires the machine to be activated via the Microsoft Activation servers."

 

[AndreyT]

Most software also states: Do not make ILLEGAL COPIES of the disc; which means you can't burn one for a friend or for resale, but you may make one for yourself so if the original is lost or broken, you still have access )

I don't think that is correct. There is no difference in burning a copy of your Win 7 for a friend or the friend D/L a copy from the Internet. Same file.

Um... How is what you are saying different from the poster you quoted was saying?

 

[bigmck]

Most software also states: Do not make ILLEGAL COPIES of the disc; which means you can't burn one for a friend or for resale, but you may make one for yourself so if the original is lost or broken, you still have access )

I don't think that is correct. There is no difference in burning a copy of your Win 7 for a friend or the friend D/L a copy from the Internet. Same file.

Um... How is what you are saying different from the poster you quoted was saying?

He says you can't burn one for a friend and I say you can.

 

[derekimo]

I don't think that is correct. There is no difference in burning a copy of your Win 7 for a friend or the friend D/L a copy from the Internet. Same file.

Um... How is what you are saying different from the poster you quoted was saying?

He says you can't burn one for a friend and I say you can.

"Technically speaking", that would be considered distributing the software and only Microsoft or authorized distributors are allowed that privilege.

I'm guessing that's the point they were trying to make.

 

[derekimo]

I'm curious as to why a refurb PC, like a Dell, HP, Lenovo, with an existing Win 7 COA, and all original parts, needs a new Win 7 COA refurb COA ? I thought the original COA applied when new, was good for the original hardware?

I've purchased several refurb PCs from large refurbers, and they all had the original COA, with a big X on it, and another new COA with refurbished on it.
Thanks

UPDATE..

"The original Microsoft (COA) attached to the PC does not allow you to reload Microsoft Windows software when no original recovery media is present. "
"When transferring the PC to the new end user, the software media, manuals (if applicable), and Certificate of Authenticity label must be included"

Looks like a refurber has to have the original install media to sell the PC with the original COA, otherwise they have to get a refurber COA. Of course, most makers of PCs no longer include the install media to original purchasers. So, the rules are different for refurbers and the OEM. And how about private sales from original owner to second owner, with no physical media? Are these sales technically illegal?

Just to get back on topic, have you checked this out?

https://www.microsoft.com/refurbishedpcs/programs.aspx

 

[bigmck]

Um... How is what you are saying different from the poster you quoted was saying?

He says you can't burn one for a friend and I say you can.

"Technically speaking", that would be considered distributing the software and only Microsoft or authorized distributors are allowed that privilege.

I'm guessing that's the point they were trying to make.

That does make sense. I was wondering last week why this Forum did not post ISO so we would have easy access to them. You just answered my question about that also. Thanks,

 

[derekimo]

He says you can't burn one for a friend and I say you can.

"Technically speaking", that would be considered distributing the software and only Microsoft or authorized distributors are allowed that privilege.

I'm guessing that's the point they were trying to make.

That does make sense. I was wondering last week why this Forum did not post ISO so we would have easy access to them. You just answered my question about that also. Thanks,

You're welcome. Yeah, that is the reason we don't post them, the actions taken by Microsoft and Google would also be detrimental to the forum which we don't want or need either.

 

[paul1149]

Looks like a refurber has to have the original install media to sell the PC with the original COA, otherwise they have to get a refurber COA. Of course, most makers of PCs no longer include the install media to original purchasers. So, the rules are different for refurbers and the OEM. And how about private sales from original owner to second owner, with no physical media? Are these sales technically illegal?

"Physical media" here also includes the Restore partition, I trust.

You can also install the certificate and keycode with various programs and just use a generic win 7 install media. Legal to do so with a authentic COA on the case. This works well, I've used it many times

But it again comes down to the presence of the physical restore media, does it not (as you indeed restated later)?

Most of the time the giant refurbers get the PCs from corporate lease returns, the drives are removed, and they have no restore media since most of the OEM no longer provide restore media unless you ask for it. I'm sure MS likes it this way. They get more fee income from selling refurb COA

The OEMs get money from recovery media sales as well, and from sales of new units to replace older units whose cost of repair has been driven to unsustainable levels by the MS licensing policy.

Does anyone know how this applies to Win8/8.1? There, a simple install via a generic iso will automatically activate via the BIOS. And indeed, there is no COA on the machine. Has MS loosened the licensing restriction finally?

 

[HodgePodge]

Looks like a refurber has to have the original install media to sell the PC with the original COA, otherwise they have to get a refurber COA. Of course, most makers of PCs no longer include the install media to original purchasers. So, the rules are different for refurbers and the OEM. And how about private sales from original owner to second owner, with no physical media? Are these sales technically illegal?

"Physical media" here also includes the Restore partition, I trust.

You can also install the certificate and keycode with various programs and just use a generic win 7 install media. Legal to do so with a authentic COA on the case. This works well, I've used it many times

But it again comes down to the presence of the physical restore media, does it not (as you indeed restated later)?

Most of the time the giant refurbers get the PCs from corporate lease returns, the drives are removed, and they have no restore media since most of the OEM no longer provide restore media unless you ask for it. I'm sure MS likes it this way. They get more fee income from selling refurb COA

The OEMs get money from recovery media sales as well, and from sales of new units to replace older units whose cost of repair has been driven to unsustainable levels by the MS licensing policy.

Does anyone know how this applies to Win8/8.1? There, a simple install via a generic iso will automatically activate via the BIOS. And indeed, there is no COA on the machine. Has MS loosened the licensing restriction finally?

this info below is for system builders.

"System builders may not offer a recovery solution with removable media (such as a recovery CD) because it is prohibited by the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. A full version of the Windows operating system is provided on a hologram CD in the Microsoft System Builder Pack for each end user, and the CD must be transferred to the end user at the time of distribution. The hologram CD acts as the recovery media.
However, system builders can offer a hard disk recovery solution in addition to, but not as a replacement for, the hologram CD
MS requires the actual physical media, not just the recovery partition"

Here, you see MS wants even the end user to have the builders recovery media to reinstall Windows on his own PC. This would be for buyers of PCs built with MS OEM install disks

"Q: I've lost the Windows DVD or my recovery disc that came with the PC and now my PC just crashed. Can't I just use a different DVD or burn my own and reinstall Windows using my OEM key?
A: You could "borrow" a Windows DVD from your neighbor or download/burn an ISO from DigitalRiver (Microsoft's online retail partner) and activate Windows with it. It would run for all eternity and have full support for updates. But Microsoft's licensing agreements see this as a violation as you're combining a license from one version with the physical media of another version. Hence: Not legal. You'd be better off trying to ask your PC manufacturer for replacement media."


For refurbers, it's different

"As of January 1, 2014, Microsoft Authorized Refurbishers are no longer including recovery media supplied on DVDs with refurbished PC purchases. Customers who buy a refurbished PC will have another option to access a recovery image in the event that they need it. The most popular method is to access the recovery image that is available on the hard drive of the computer. Or the customer may be prompted to create their own recovery media. You can learn more about making your own system backup "

So, large OEM like Dell, are not required to sell a PC with the physical media, a refurber can sell a PC with no physical media and a restore partition, and a smaller mom and pop store who uses purchased OEM install disks must sell the PC with those disks, but can include a recovery partition with the install disks

 

[bigmck]

Just a question. == I have accidently deleted my Recovery Partition. I downloaded an ISO and made a CD in case I wanted to do a Clean Install. It sounds like that would be a violation if I used the CD. Is that right?

 

[paul1149]

According to iFixit.com, a Windows Refurb COA costs about $33. Then there are disk wiping requirements, and probably paperwork as well. Hard to see how this would work in the marketplace, except on high-end units.

 

[HodgePodge]

According to iFixit.com, a Windows Refurb COA costs about $33. Then there are disk wiping requirements, and probably paperwork as well. Hard to see how this would work in the marketplace, except on high-end units.

Arrow Direct sells a very large amount of corp lease returns that they refurb with a refurb COA and fresh install of windows with recovery partition. Some of their units are low priced.. They probably get a better deal with MS with large volume license purchases

 

[HodgePodge]

Just a question. == I have accidently deleted my Recovery Partition. I downloaded an ISO and made a CD in case I wanted to do a Clean Install. It sounds like that would be a violation if I used the CD. Is that right?

well, let's say it's a Dell. You deleted the recovery partition. MS wants you to order the recovery media from Dell to do a legal install, even though your neighbor might have the exact same PC and exact same recovery media, you can't legally borrow his

 

[ThrashZone]

Just a question. == I have accidently deleted my Recovery Partition. I downloaded an ISO and made a CD in case I wanted to do a Clean Install. It sounds like that would be a violation if I used the CD. Is that right?

Depends on where you downloaded the iso
If downloaded from M$ you're good they are the only ones that today are legal to distribute windows of any version.

If you downloaded from a torrent then the torrent is in violation of distributing copyrighted M$ software.
Pretty much why SevenForums does not want to become a torrent iso download spot

 

[bigmck]

Just a question. == I have accidently deleted my Recovery Partition. I downloaded an ISO and made a CD in case I wanted to do a Clean Install. It sounds like that would be a violation if I used the CD. Is that right?

Depends on where you downloaded the iso
If downloaded from M$ you're good they are the only ones that today are legal to distribute windows of any version.

If you downloaded from a torrent then the torrent is in violation of distributing copyrighted M$ software.
Pretty much why SevenForums does not want to become a torrent iso download spot

I guess if I ever do a Clean Install, I will be looking for someone to bail me out of jail.