UEFI Install of Windows 7 Pro

[feetand nches]

I wonder if someone will help me decide if I want to install in UEFI? My end goal may be to dual boot with windows 8.1 or 10, or even Linux, not sure yet, but that may matter so thought I would mention it.

I already have the Retail DVD created and the link from here to do this, but still wonder if it is suggested to do. The pc is a Dell 660s Small Form Factor that is 7, 8 or 10 compatible. I also have a license for 7 Home Premium if that would be better for some reason.

Also, I'm under the impression that I do not need to Pre-Format to GPT, just follow the sevenforums link below.
UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) - Install Windows 7 with - Windows 7 Help Forums

Thanks, Nasty7

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
The only benefit of uefi install is to use bitlocker and of course bitlocker is only available with 7 ultimate.
Just because gpt is used it's only perk is the ability to create more than 4 primary partitions so what size main drive are you using exactly ?
Otherwise ntfs is fine as wine for most people.
Win-7 is not compatible with fast start feature more commonly known as hibernation of win-8 or 10 so you'd need to disable fast start in those os's via cmd in either of those 2 os's
Enable or Disable Hibernate in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Performance Maintenance Tutorials

 

[Megahertz07]

You can only install windows as UEFI if you have a UEFI BIOS.
Does your Dell have UEFI BIOS?

If it does, boot the win 7, 8.1 or 10 installation disk as UEFI, go to install, advanced, delete all partitions and proceed.

 

[AddRAM]

What is the size of the drive you intend to use ?

 

[feetand nches]

Sorry guys, here is a little more info.

Here is the Link for this pc guys.
Support for Inspiron 660s | Dell US


The computer did come with Windows 8, so therefore I am quite sure it is UEFI as I seen that in BIOS when trying to boot Linux to evaluate the hardware before putting a 1TB Drive in it, I turned off Secure Boot thinking it would help.

I thought GPT would make it easier to multi boot, in case I needed more than 4 Primary's, and maybe more secure because of UEFI, but that's debatable I guess.

Drive size should not be an issue because I won't go over a 1TB I'm quite sure. I'm no power user and keep my info., (mostly word docs) on a USB, so that I can move from computer to computer easily.

I'm also considering installing Windows 8.1 and then Upgrading to 10, so that I can become more familiar with 10 for work. Working with 8.1 on my laptop now to see if it is worth installing and keeping on this -new to me-Desktop. Reason being, W8 was acting up on me and I don't know enough about it to make a good decision as whether to keep it or not, and or to install it on this new Desktop.

Basically I love Windows 7, and want to put it on this new machine. The machine shipped with Windows 8, so don't know if it will run best with Windows 7 or Windows 8. I'm also in the need to practice with Windows 10, so I think the best thing would be to Dual Boot with 7 and 10, but am trying to plan this out as best as possible.

I'm also unclear as to what will happen with Windows 7 if I Upgrade to 10? Does this mean I will have to install 7, then Image it for later, Upgrade to 10 to get the License, then Wipe the drive and use the Windows 7 Image to start all over with the Dual Boot? Because if I understand correctly, Windows 7 needs to be installed first, and when the Upgrade to 10 happens it will overwrite 7.

O-boy, I may just install Windows 7 Pro and be done with it lol. I'm in no hurry as of now so any feedback is very welcome. Performance is a concern also, any comments on this would be nice.

Hope that's not TMI, Much Thanks, Nasty7

 

[Megahertz07]

On Legacy boot, BIOS takes to MBR that points to a Master boot loader that can point to another boot loader. (Serial chain).
The boot priority is a disk (MBR) not a boot loader.
For instance, MBR can take to Linus Grub boot loader that can have as fist option a Linux OS and second option a Windows boot loader.
or
MBR can take to Windows boot loader that can have as fist option a Windows OS and second option a Linus Grub boot loader.

On UEFI you have a Fat32 partition (that is compatible with all OS's) that has the boot loaders that are chosen by BIOS priority. The boot loaders are independent and not chained. You don't choose a disk to boot from, you choose directly a boot loader.
The OS's will be on different partitions (or disks)

In other words, if you're going to have more than one OS on same disk, USE UEFI.

If your Dell came with Win 8.1 make the factory recover disks. Then under win 8.1 upgrade to Win 10.
Once Win 10 is activated, MS will record the LAN MAC address. That means that you'll be able to do a future clean install and it will be activated.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I'd probably just use vmware and use what ever os's you want too in virtual machine
Seeing you already have 8.1 installed use it as the host.

 

[Abhiji]

Installing Windows 7 and 10 in UEFI syatem with MBR sometime causes crashing on Windows starting screen possibly due to partition mapping problem. Therefore, in UEFI system I found it is better to install Windows 7 on GPT.

One possible method that finally worked for me:
1. Disable secure boot and compatibility mode (CSM) in UEFI
2. Install windows 10 in GPT
3. Use the Win7 bootable USB created by rufus for "MBR + UEFI-CSM + BIOS"
4. Start windows 7 installation under windows 10
(Note: the UEFI with GPT version of win7 bootable USB created by Rufus did not work due to file missing error)
5. On restart make sure UEFI-CSM is enabled back, otherwise Windows 7 will again halt.
6. Now both Win 7 and 10 working reliably.

 

[dg1261]

Nasty7,

The 660s does have Win7 drivers available from the Dell link you provided. I have installed Win7 on many 660 and 660s models for clients, and can attest it runs quite smoothly.

I disagree with Megahertz07's blanket statement that, "if you're going to have more than one OS on same disk, USE UEFI." I've been happily multi-booting MBR disks for more than a quarter century, and wouldn't have it any other way. My laptop has ten partitions (both primary and logical) on two MBR disks, and multi-boots eight OSes, including Win10. I find MBR multi-booting far easier than GPT, especially when it comes to backing up and restoring images.

Genuine multi-booting on a MBR disk does require a third-party boot manager to manage the boot menu. Do not--repeat, DO NOT--do it Microsoft's kludgy way. Use a proper boot manager. There are several free boot managers around--even the linux grub bootloader will do, though I prefer Terabyte's "BootIt Bare Metal" (BIBM). It also comes with a first-rate partition manager and first-rate image/restore utility built in, which take the place of Windows-based utilities like Mini-Tool Partition Wizard and Macrium Reflect, et al. (As a purist, I prefer the straightforward cleanliness and simplicity of repartitioning and imaging from outside Windows, anyway, rather than using Windows-based tools.)

I agree with TrashZone that in your case UEFI/GPT offers nothing that can't be done with MBR disks, other than the marginally better safety of Secure Boot. (Personally, I find Secure Boot more trouble than it's worth ... but everyone has their own opinion, I guess.) For me, the one and only advantage to a GPT boot disk is it can be larger than 2TB. But in your case (and mine), that is not an issue.

Regardless of how you multi-boot, you'll want to disable Fast Start, as ThrashZone mentioned. (I suspect that may be the root of Abhiji's problem.) Fast Start is essentially a form of hibernation, which can play havoc with multi-boot setups.

If you want to learn more about multi-booting with a MBR boot disk, I have plenty of background information on my website, "Understanding MultiBooting". The Terabyte utility actually makes it even easier than my way (through Terabyte's "unlimited partitions"). Though I still use my method (and just use BIBM for its boot manager), for newbies I recommend the BIBM way instead of my way, while my website has all the background info you'd want to understand how things fit together.


Dan

 

[AddRAM]

You can just use your windows 8 key to activate W10, you do not have to install 8 then upgrade to W10.

 

[feetand nches]

That was a wealth of information guys, thank you very much. I'm going to think this over a while, but looks like I'll go with MBR.

Just to clarify, I have not installed anything yet, I've only booted Linux from Live USB to Test Hardware, along with the built in Dell Test's. I am however using 8.1 on a different machine (laptop) just to test it out to see if I like it. I've been using it for a while, but I installed using an old Retail Image and made some changes that affected the performance so could not get a good idea if it is going to be good for me.
ThrashZone, hmm, VM? don't have much experience with that but good idea, maybe I'll run Linux in that due to it's small footprint and quick updates. I only have 4GB of RAM so VM's may have to wait for best performance from what I understand. I could do it but that would be pushing the RAM to it's limit's and beyond LOL, I would think.

Fast Start, yes I'm familiar with that. I do a lot of reading, so am a little familiar with some of this stuff, just not in real Practice.
dg1261, yes, I was aware of all the options of the 660s, did lot's of research before asking questions. But I don't have the hands-on experience all you guys have. And the MBR thing, thanks! I've also used EasyBCD once, and have Dual-booted with Linux quite a few times, but that has been pretty straight forward with one Windows install, then one Linux install behind it on older MBR pc's. I'll try that bootloader you suggested as your saying there may be issues with the Windows way. And I have read that it's harder to do backups with GPT, so that is a good point. I'll look at your website also.

I'm also out of cash ATM, so this is all going to be done on the Cheap for now. When I get a little cash I'll put some more RAM in it, now it's got 4GB. Running late, till later.

Thanks, Nasty7

 

[Megahertz07]

In my opinion, Win 7 is the best OS.
Win 10 is a better OS than 8.1. Between the two, I'll would install Win 10. And as AddRam mentioned, you can use win 8.1 COA key to do a clean install it and it will activate (or just do a upgrade over 8.1).

I had used Legacy MBR in a older computer with multi boot (Win 7 and Lubuntu). Now I have a UEFI BIOS and have multi boot (Win 7 and Lubuntu) on a GPT drive and I think is a better solution. As I mentioned, UEFI boot is like having multi disks on a single disk.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
You can use Crucial scanner to see what the ram upgrades are not that you have to buy it from them but they do have a 100% compatibility claim I have crucial ram 8gb's it's okay a little more money but it was easy and works on my old acer build
Crucial System Scanner | Crucial.com

 

[feetand nches]

In my opinion, Win 7 is the best OS.

Yes, I agree as any sane person would LOL, kidding...just a little humor!

Win 10 is a better OS than 8.1. Between the two, I'll would install Win 10. And as AddRam mentioned, you can use win 8.1 COA key to do a clean install it and it will activate (or just do a upgrade over 8.1).

Agreed! other than all the changes 10 has gone through it seems to be a better OS IMO. I already have 8.1 on my laptop, so it looks like I need to get Windows 7 on their and download a third party Bootloader, and then install Windows 10 along side of it. Although someone was saying to install 10 first? I think I'd rather install 7 First?

This brings up some confusing questions for me. I'm uncertain exactly how to install Windows 10 and have it activate? This pc already had Windows 8 on it, so, can I just boot a Retail DVD and install? I don't have the COA because never had access to Windows 8 to get the Key. I think AddRam is saying, that it will just activate because Windows 8 was on there before, and the COA is in BIOS??? I was unaware of this, I thought one had to go through the official link to Upgrade from an already installed system?

I had used Legacy MBR in a older computer with multi boot (Win 7 and Lubuntu). Now I have a UEFI BIOS and have multi boot (Win 7 and Lubuntu) on a GPT drive and I think is a better solution. As I mentioned, UEFI boot is like having multi disks on a single disk.

Yes, this was one of my concerns and still thinking over the whole situation.

Thanks, Nasty7

 

[Abhiji]

A small update on the problem I was facing:
Loading Windows 7 on GPT along with Win 10 had solved that the startup hanging problem temporarily. I realized the actual problem is Windows 10 boot manager. After formatting one of my Linux partition on hdd by booting through external usb disk the win7 startup hanging problem reappeared. Still not clear what is the exact problem or its solution.

 

[Megahertz07]

COA (Certificate Of Authenticity) label on OEM computers is normally on the side of the case. On Laptops they are at the bottom or below the battery.
COA Key is the code you find on the COA label.
When installing Win 10, when asked for the key, use the Win 8 or 8.1 COA Key. It will activate the win 10 installation.

 

[Abhiji]

Finally found the root cause of behind Windows 7 crashing on the startup screen:

My system has x99 motherboard, Xeon CPU with NVIDIA GTX 1070 GPU. Loading Window 7 on GPT helped windows 10 bootloader always correctly map the partitions on my system as GPT has unique ID for each partition. This needs the Option ROM (OpROM) for storage of the UEFI to be in UEFI mode. To do that when I turn off compatibility mode of UEFI (UEFI-CSM) it makes the OpROM for Graphics also in UEFI mode (as per my understanding), which was causing Win 7 freezing a bit later (after playing the startup sound) in the starting phase.

Now enabling UEFI-CSM with Storage OpROM "UEFI only" and Graphics OpROM "Legacy Only" solves both the issues with Windows 7 starting with Windows 10 bootloader. Now the system is stable with Win7, Win10 and Linux.

Thanks.

 

[feetand nches]

You can just use your windows 8 key to activate W10, you do not have to install 8 then upgrade to W10.

I don't have the Key, there was no OS on this Tower when I got it, so was not able to dig it out, and it is not on the Tower anywhere? This is why I was thinking I would have to Upgrade from 8 to 10, but I am unsure and don't really want to do all that work. Reason being, wanting to do the Dual Boot 7 and 10 thing, so that will be a lot of work. Is there any way to dig out that Key without an OS installed? I'll do some googling.

 

[AddRAM]

If the W8 key is not on the COA on the PC then no.

There`s really no reason to run a dual boot anyway, 7 is the best.

You can always run W10 in a Virtual Machine if you want look it over.

In my opinion the latest W10 update (the Creator`s Update) is terrible, I am sticking with the Anniversary Update as long as possible.

 

[feetand nches]

Thank you AddRAM! 7 Is the best, but I'm helping out a friend with computer repair and need to learn windows 10 a little better. I would love to avoid the whole thing, but it's hard to work on this stuff without having one around to test and learn on. I may have to bite the bullet and install 7 or 8 to get the 10 upgrade, then reinstall everything in Dual Boot after. I wonder if I can do this with 7, and Image 7 before I Upgrade to get that license.

Would like to get the Full Windows 10 experience if possible and this seems to be the only way to do it. I prefer to Dual Boot 7 with Linux haha, that's my MO, 10 don't seem all that bad and am liking Windows 8 a little, I think it is just for the graphics, they are a little better than 7.

Trying to figure out how to get ProduKey to work off a Bootable USB? but don't see anyone doing that. I wonder if I can just put it on a Bootable DOS USB Created with Rufus?