Installing Windows 7 Upgrade to secondary hard drive

[TheNoob]

Hello all. I have a bit of a strange question about installing the Windows 7 upgrade. I'll try to keep it as simple as I can.

Firstly

1: I currently have Windows XP SP3 Home Edition installed (and activated) on my 160GB WD Caviar Blue hard drive, which has 8MB cache. It's getting a bit full now.

2. This hard drive is one of the few remnants of a Dell machine I bought a few years ago. Surprisingly, the restore disk still works and activates, even though I've changed the motherboard and a number of other things over the years. My last reinstall was about a year ago, and I had no problems reactivating whatsoever - I didn't even need to phone Microsoft. However I doubt it'll install and activate on a new hard drive - particularly as I've also changed the DVD drive since my last activation (as the old one broke), literally the only things remaining from the old system would be the RAM and the processor.

2: I have purchased a 500GB WD Caviar Blue with 16MB Cache

3: I intend to buy Windows 7 Pro Upgrade from TheUltimateSteal for £30. I'm a student, but will be graduating soon, so it seems sensible to take advantage of this offer while I can.

4. Clearly I can install Windows 7 in the normal way onto my current drive and use the 500GB drive for backing up my files, which I'll do if that's the only option.

5. However, if I did that I would not be taking full advantage of the extra cache of the new drive. It would be nice if I could use that for my primary installation to speed things up a bit.

So here's my question:

If I start the upgrade process having booted from the 160GB drive, but during installation select my 500GB drive as the target for the installation, will Windows 7 install and activate correctly? Will it recognise the pre-existing installation, even though it was on a different drive?

If not, then:

If I install my Dell restore disk on the new drive, and don't activate Windows (which presumably I won't be able to), and then run the Windows 7 upgrade on THAT drive, will Windows 7 install and activate correctly?


Basically, is there a legitimate way of installing a Windows 7 Upgrade onto the 500GB drive, on the basis of there currently being a valid XP installation on the 160GB drive?

I have no intention of continuing to use XP after the upgrade, if I am able to install and activate Windows 7 to the new drive, then this will serve only as a backup for my files.


Has anybody tried something similar and succeeded/failed?

I've already read the tutorials on here about doing a clean install of Windows 7. I'd like to avoid dodgy workarounds, as I'd rather not run into problems further down the line when it comes to updates and that sort of thing.


I'd appreciate any information anybody has. Thanks!

 

[Dave76]

Welcome to Seven Forums.

I appreciate your concern to keep you installation legitimate, and also agree that it is the best approach.

Due to the requirement to have a previous, XP or Vista, Windows OS installed and activated and the fact that you can't do an upgrade install from XP to Win7 the upgrade version has to allow for a clean install.

MS EULA states that you must own a previous activated version of Windows to use the Upgrade version and after the Win7 installation you are not allowed to use the previous OS, as it's tied to the upgrade now.

Now, understanding all of this, we have reports that you can do a clean install of Win7 upgrade version onto a new HD. The installer will identify your XP and allow you to install onto the new HD.

First, backup your XP HD before you start the installation in case the worst happens.

Dual booting with XP and Win7 is easy to set up, but very difficult to remove XP from the boot manager. We have seen a lot of issues that are not easy to solve.
I recommend to delete the XP partition during the installation, then install Win7 on the new HD.

Get all your personal files out of the XP partition first.

If you download an ISO file, burn it at x2 speed we have seen a lot of burning errors.
The best way to install it is from a USB memory key, check this tutorial Windows 7 USB/DVD Download Tool for the procedure.

I would recommend to install the new HD, initialize and partition it, mark the partition you want to install Win7 on as 'Active'.
With both HDs connected, insert your Win7 upgrade DVD or USB key, restart the computer and boot from the installation media.

For reference Clean Install with a Upgrade Windows 7 Version, using option one.

Additional reference Clean Installation with Windows 7

When you get to step 7&8 in the Clean Installation with Windows 7 tutorial above, in the Drive options (advanced), Delete the XP partition (this will delete everything), then select the new HD partition you want to install Win7 on and continue the installation.

This will give you a clean legal Win7 install and no dual boot that will be difficult to get out of later.

Let us know if you have any questions.

 

[TheNoob]

Hi, thanks for replying, but I'm not sure I fully understand your answer.

I should say that I don't want a dual boot system - I want the 500GB drive to become my primary drive, running Windows 7.

I don't understand all this business about partitions (as my name suggests im a noob).

Will either one of the options I listed work, or do I need to do something different? If so, what (in layman's terms)

If wiping the previous XP installation is a must, how do I create a partition to store the files in that I wish to save? I don't have any other storage large enough to hold them.

As for the installation media, I'll be ordering the £9 "disc kit" with the ISO download and booting from that.

If anybody can give me an idiot-proof step by step explanation of how I can go about doing what I'd like to do I'd be very grateful!

 

[Dave76]

The text that's in blue are links to tutorials, just click on them and it will take you to the Seven Forums page with information.

These tutorials are very easy to follow, step by step, with clear instructions.

A partition is when your hard drive is divided into smaller sections. These sections are like separate hard drives. You can keep the operating system separated from your personal files.

To learn more about partitions click here <Partition or Volume - Create New>, and use method one.

Yes you can do the install like you mentioned.

Go back to my previous post and click on the blue text, read through the tutorials and reply here if you have any questions.

 

[TheNoob]

Thanks Dave.

With regards to backing data up-

All I want to save is the My Documents folder, which is about 70GB.

Are you saying I should create a backup partition on the new drive and shove that in there, or create a single 500GB partition and use the windows.old thing in the installation to back the files up?

These two drives are the only large storage devices i have - next largest thing is my 2GB memory stick, which obviously is too small.

EDIT:
Also!

If I do create a partition for backing up my data on the 500GB drive (say 70-80GB), will I be able to delete it after the installation, or would that require reformatting the drive?

When you say I should backup my XP drive, do you mean the important data on it that I want, or do you mean clone the drive to preserve the installation, should Win7 fail?

 

[TheNoob]

Or another crazy and novel idea:

Given all this talk of partitioning is making my head spin, what if i did this:

• Wiped my 120GB ipod, and set it up as a portable hard drive (easily done)
• Copy all my important data onto there as data storage
• Installed windows7 as discussed, making sure to delete the XP partition
• Boot up in Windows 7, with fingers firmly crossed (would I need to swap the drive cables around?)
• Install itunes
• Copy all that data back onto the new drive
• Rebuild my itunes library and restore my iPod

My only concern is what happens if Windows 7 wants to be awkward, as I'll have deleted XP.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Noob:

With respect to the 500 GB drive--you have to decide if you want one partition or 2 partitions on it. You can do it either way and it isn't a big deal one way or the other. A lot of people choose 2, with the second partition being strictly for personal data. Those people typically don't keep personal data on C. Decide on this issue before you begin the installation. If you choose to do 2 partitions, the typical recommendation would be to make one of 60 or 80 GB for Windows 7 and programs, with the remaining 420 to 440 GB for the second partition to hold data. In that case, C would be 60 or 80 GB, and D would be 420 or 440 GB.

I assume you have been using a single partition on your existing 160 GB drive and you can certainly do the same going forward, with the entire 500 GB drive having just one partition.

You can start the installation from your current operating system, or you can start it by booting from your Windows 7 disc.

If you want a "clean install" to the 500 GB drive, you would choose Custom Installation when it is offered, and then "drive options/advanced" a few screens later when you come to the choices about where to put Windows 7.

After you choose "drive options/advanced", you will see the choices to delete existing partitions and to make new ones on the 500 GB drive. Don't delete or alter the 160 GB drive in any way. You could even disconnect it before you begin. You would make either one or two new partitions on the 500 GB drive at this point, depending on what you decided. If you make 2 new partitions, you would then choose the smaller one as the place to put Windows 7.

In your case, you have to be careful to NOT choose your existing old drive as the destination for Windows 7.

After the installation, you can access your original hard drive and simply copy all of the files you need from it over to the new 500 GB drive.

 

[TheNoob]

Thanks ignatzatsonic, but what about the dual boot issues mentioned above?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Noob:

Unless you have a particular reason to want to dual boot and keep your old operating system around, why dual boot?? Just go with Windows 7 and be done with it.

Dual boot can be complicated to undo if you decide after the fact that you want to get rid of it and use Windows 7 only.

Is there a particular reason you want to dual boot?

 

[mtarm1]

dual booting and deleting a dual boot is easy when you use easy BCD...

 

[Dave76]

Or another crazy and novel idea:

Given all this talk of partitioning is making my head spin, what if i did this:

• Wiped my 120GB ipod, and set it up as a portable hard drive (easily done)
• Copy all my important data onto there as data storage
• Installed windows7 as discussed, making sure to delete the XP partition
• Boot up in Windows 7, with fingers firmly crossed (would I need to swap the drive cables around?)
• Install itunes
• Copy all that data back onto the new drive
• Rebuild my itunes library and restore my iPod

My only concern is what happens if Windows 7 wants to be awkward, as I'll have deleted XP.

I wouldn't use the ipod, you've got plenty of space on the 500GB HD.

If you make a backup image of the old HD with XP on it and anything goes wrong you can restore it in about 20 minutes. Everything will be as it was before.
Down load this free program <Macrium Reflect>, it's a very good backup program. Find the tutorials on their web page, they will explain how to make the backup and restore it if needed.

Make at least two partitions on the new HD, as ignatzatsonic mentioned, the first one should be for your new Win7, 70Gb will be enough.
The second partition with the remaining space, you can keep your personal data there. Put you backup of the old XP Hd in the second partition, just make a new folder called XP backup. keep the backup until you are sure that the new OS is running well.

Reply here if you have any questions.

 

[TheNoob]

Thanks folks.

There's a big postal strike on over here in Britain so it'll be some time before I've got together all the stuff I need to do this.

I'm still a bit hazy about this partitioning business but I'll do some more reading in the meantime.

When you say 70-80GB for windows and then another partition for my personal data, where should I be putting major programs and software suites, like Microsoft Office? Can I/should I install that in the personal data partition?

Also, if I'm saving an image of my 160gig on the new drive for backup - how do I "use" that image to restore the drive should everything go belly up?

Is there anybody here who's tried what I'm doing? I'm just concerned that if it goes wrong or I make a mistake I'll be left without a working computer!

Ta.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Noob:

Think of partitioning in this way:

When you buy a new drive, it has NO partitions and you must put at least one partition on it to make it usable. Otherwise, it is no more than a paperweight.

Think of a carton of cigarettes, containing 200 cigarettes in 10 packs. The 10 packs are analogous to 10 partitions. The outer carton containing the 10 packs is analogous to the entire drive. Partitioning tools allow you to put all 200 cigarettes in a single big pack (C) or in 2 packs (C and D), 3 packs (C, D, and E), or whatever you want.

I'd guess most people worldwide use a single big pack--one C partition with 500 gigs in your case.

Many people on this forum recommend two packs (partitions): C of maybe 70 and D of maybe 430.

It is entirely personal choice. I use 2 partitions, but if you have a history of using just one (160 gigabyte C on your old hard drive), you might want to stick with that. It isn't a big deal either way.

If you choose to use 2 partitions, you should install BOTH Windows 7 AND your programs to C, the smaller partition. A bare Windows 7 installation is typically under 10 GB, so you will have plenty of free space in C for your programs. You would then place all of your personal data in the folder structure of your choice on D.

I did pretty much what you are planning to do. I booted my computer from the Windows 7 install disc and installed Windows 7 to my new drive. I partitioned the new drive as part of the installation process into C and D.

I did not use imaging and the installation did not touch my old drive at all.

After the install, I simply navigated to my data folders on the old drive and copied them back to the desired location on the D partition on my new drive.

 

[TheNoob]

I did pretty much what you are planning to do. I booted my computer from the Windows 7 install disc and installed Windows 7 to my new drive. I partitioned the new drive as part of the installation process into C and D.

I did not use imaging and the installation did not touch my old drive at all.

After the install, I simply navigated to my data folders on the old drive and copied them back to the desired location on the D partition on my new drive.

Thanks. How did you stop it from becoming a dual boot system? I only want it to boot up in Windows 7 after the installation, essentially I want my current C drive to become just a data drive with "stuff" on it, not a drive for the PC to boot up from.

How do I do that?

Edit: I should add, I do not want a dual boot system. However, I need to run the upgrade from my current drive because obviously it needs to recognise my existing XP installation for it to work.

Cheers.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Most (all?) people find that Windows 7 does NOT need to see any prior operating system installation to install properly when using the Windows 7 upgrade disc.

If you are nervous about it, you could open your case, disconnect the power and data connectors from your existing 160 GB drive. That way you know it won't be touched during the install.

If you then put the Windows 7 disc in the DVD drive, your PC should boot from it because there is no other drive with an OS (connected) for it to boot from.

If you choose to leave the 160 GB drive connected, go into your PC"s bios and set the boot order to boot from the DVD drive first. That way, your PC will boot from the Windows 7 install disc if you restart with it in the DVD drive.

Choose custom install when you see that choice offered.

Choose "drive options/advanced" when you come to a screen displaying your available drives. If you disconnected the 160 GB, you should not see it at this point. If you did not disconnect the 160 GB, you will see it. When you choose "drive options, advanced", you will see a display of your drives. Be sure to choose your new 500 GB drive. You can create 2 partitions on the 500 GB drive if you want to. Or you can just create one partition, in which case you will end up with one big 500 GB partition. I think there is a choice there to make certain partitions active, and you should make active whatever partition you have chosen as the Windows 7 destination.

If you did not disconnect the 160 GB drive, you have to be careful to NOT repeat NOT choose any partition on the 160 GB drive as the destination for Windows 7.

If by chance you cannot later activate Windows 7, there is a well-documented workaround for that as discovered by Paul Thurott and publicized on his web site and shown on this web site as well. You have 30 days to activate before Windows 7 will drop dead.

Personally, I did not have to do the workaround. I was able to activate immediately.

 

[TheNoob]

Right, in that case I have a number of options:

Dave 76's method:

• Install and partition the new drive in XP
• Back up my C drive in the "personal" partition on the new drive
• Run the Windows 7 disc from bootup
• Select the designated partition on the new drive for installation, delete the XP partition on the old drive

Or ignatzatsonic's method, unplug the 160GB XP drive and boot up the blank 500GB disc with the Win7 upgrade disc and see if it'll activate. If it does, I can then easily use the 160GB to restore my data.


If I try ignatzatsonic's method first, presumably then if the activation doesn't work, I can boot up with the XP drive, reformat the Win7 drive in windows xp and try again with Dave's method?


With regards to dual boot issues:

Obviously, I don't want a dual boot system. But if at any point I had both drives plugged in and both had OS's on them, would that automatically create a dual boot scenario? And if so, would simply reformatting one of the drives (which obviously I'm going to do anyway) remove the dual boot thing, or would it cause confusion/complication for the BIOS?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

You can use Windows 7 even though it is not activated, for 30 days. So if you can't activate, you would boot into Windows 7 normally, and then apply the workarounds. You should never have to resort to XP.

Re dual boot: I am not an expert, did not want it, and never got it. I agree, you should probably get a dual boot honcho in this thread to assure you it won't happen to you. If dual boot occurs, it can be a pain to undo.

My offhand opinion is that if you disconnect the 160, reboot from the Windows 7 install disc in the DVD drive, choose custom install, partition the 500 GB drive as desired, set the new C drive as active, and then install Windows 7, you won't have any dual boot possibilities.

When you reconnect the old drive after the smoke clears and you are using Windows 7, I think it will just show up as another drive, with no dual boot capability. You can then reformat it as desired from within Windows 7 "Disk Management" area.

But let someone else come in here and confirm. You don't want to accidentally end up with a dual boot menu and 2 choices for an OS.

 

[TheNoob]

You can use Windows 7 even though it is not activated, for 30 days. So if you can't activate, you would boot into Windows 7 normally, and then apply the workarounds. You should never have to resort to XP.

But let someone else come in here and confirm. You don't want to accidentally end up with a dual boot menu and 2 choices for an OS.

Indeed I don't, but I don't want to have to apply the workarounds either, in case future updates cause me agro.

A dual boot honcho would be useful. How do you find one?

 

[gregrocker]

Obviously, I don't want a dual boot system. But if at any point I had both drives plugged in and both had OS's on them, would that automatically create a dual boot scenario? And if so, would simply reformatting one of the drives (which obviously I'm going to do anyway) remove the dual boot thing, or would it cause confusion/complication for the BIOS?

If you unplug the other OS drive(s) when you install Win7, it will not create a dual boot if you later plug in another OS drive. The drive will act as a data drive where you can access your files, even the other OS's files/drivers, but not boot unless you set it to boot first in the BIOS or using the BIOS boot shortcut key (normally F10) at bootup.

 

[Dave76]

Right, in that case I have a number of options:

Dave 76's method:

• Install and partition the new drive in XP
• Back up my C drive in the "personal" partition on the new drive
• Run the Windows 7 disc from bootup
• Select the designated partition on the new drive for installation, delete the XP partition on the old drive

Or ignatzatsonic's method, unplug the 160GB XP drive and boot up the blank 500GB disc with the Win7 upgrade disc and see if it'll activate. If it does, I can then easily use the 160GB to restore my data.


If I try ignatzatsonic's method first, presumably then if the activation doesn't work, I can boot up with the XP drive, reformat the Win7 drive in windows xp and try again with Dave's method?


With regards to dual boot issues:

Obviously, I don't want a dual boot system. But if at any point I had both drives plugged in and both had OS's on them, would that automatically create a dual boot scenario? And if so, would simply reformatting one of the drives (which obviously I'm going to do anyway) remove the dual boot thing, or would it cause confusion/complication for the BIOS?

As ignatzatsonic and gregrocker have mentioned unplugging the XP HD and installing Win7 on the new HD should work for you, it has worked for many people but not all, it's definitely worth a try.

If both HDs are connected and XP is still there when you install Win7 it will automatically make the dual boot manager.
If you then just format or delete the XP partition you will corrupt the boot manager and won't be able to boot into Win7. This exact scenario is why we have been seeing a lot of requests to help them get the boot manager fixed so they can use Win7. This will not work and is not easy to fix.

If you disconnect the XP HD and install Win7, and it won't activate (it should and probably will activate) there are a few things you can do. Some people are getting it to activate by doing a Clean install of Win7 then doing an Upgrade install over the new install.
You can also install Win7, you have 30 days before you have to activate it, get everything the way you want it. All your files etc. from the XP HD, then try to activate it, if it doesn't activate then you can try the MS online activation or call them. Explain what you did and that you aren't planning to use XP anymore, and they will let you activate it.

Activate Windows 7 Online

Activate Windows 7 by Phone

However you decide to do it, if your concerned about it being OK with MS, their requirement is that you have a legal, activated version of XP or Vista, which you do. They also say that the old version of windows used to upgrade from cannot be used anymore, keeping it for up to a month to get files, settings or just making sure Win7 is stable will be acceptable to MS.

When you install Win7 with the XP HD disconnected, after the install completes you can turn off computer, re-connect the XP HD and it will act as a data drive, unless you boot to it from BIOS, as mentioned earlier.

Let us know if you have any other questions.