Continuing the Fight Against Piracy.

[Tepid]

I will say that piracy has had a detrimental impact on consumer rights for software and games.
If you want to remain legal at all times, you must buy in the majority of cases to see the full benefits of the package, but then if you are unhappy, you have a very hard time getting a refund. It's almost not worth it. Especially when it comes to games.

I also apply this to entertainment (movies and Music). If the movie that you just saw in the theater was horrible, what recourse does anyone have for a refund? None. Zero. Zip. Ziltch. You are out of luck and out of pocket.

Personally, I find this to be a travesty for consumer rights. In these areas, consumers have no, or extremely little rights.

 

[valtonray]

thats exactly the point. for a large part media and software purchases are non refundable, unlike console games and dvd's you can't really even take your pc games and software to trade towards the purchase of another product once the packaging has been opened. i understand that this is largely due to piracy but it creates little incentive to do the right thing. now i personally like to know that i've earned the things i own, so i buy them, however without trying to justify it i do admit to occasionally pirating movies and music that i am unable to find otherwise, i'm not saying it's right that i do it, but when i can grab it as a torrent even though no retailer or online source i've checked can locate a copy i'm going to download it, if i see it for sell one day i'll gladly purchase it then. as for the movie thing well i feel if they gave refunds you'd have a lot of people abusing it, they could possibly offer something where if you walked out within the first half hour they would refund it but no, you shouldn't get to watch the entire movie and get the refund. really what needs to happen is the media company needs to offer a reasonable alternative to make a legal purchase. as it stands right now, most movies i buy are limited to the format i purchase them in. if i rip one of my dvd's as a backup or to add to a personal digital collection i'm in violation, but if i buy a digital copy from amazon download it and my hdd fails well i'm still out of my movie, thats not fair, i purchased it i should be able to view it in my home and on my devices as i please.

 

[patio]

I could care less what any of you do and how you decide borrowing software is somehow OK...
I don't have to deal with your choices...only you can decide that...

But please don't insult my intelligence trying to justify the choices you make.

 

[Tepid]

Personally, I think Consumer Rights and Piracy go hand in hand.

 

[valtonray]

I could care less what any of you do and how you decide borrowing software is somehow OK...
I don't have to deal with your choices...only you can decide that...

But please don't insult my intelligence trying to justify the choices you make.

it may not be a perfect scenario but until the media and software companies treat consumers like buyers instead of thieves we will each have our own way of making sure our money is well spent. i work hard for my money often putting my own life on the line. i chose my profession because i enjoy it and it's something i can be proud of. i'm okay with the fact that i dont have a limitless budget. i do believe that stealing is wrong, i just don't see that what i do testing a product before i buy it is wrong. i like to know exactly what i'm purchasing is going to fill my needs, if i test a product that does great i'll buy it, if not i'll find another. simple as that. i bought the full ps4 master collection because it had all the tools i needed and i found it easier to use than gimp or other freeware alternatives, i don't mind paying for a quality product, im just not ok with pissing the money i worked hard for away.

 

[valtonray]

i don't support outright piracy, i don't think it's acceptable to download a movie before it hits the theaters just because i've been dying to see it. i buy all of my music even though i know my collection could be infinitely larger and free. i pay for the things i want just the same as i pay for my needs. any industry outside of software and media that adopted the practices and restrictions they put on their products would fail before they ever got off the ground. imagine buying a car from ford and being told you could only drive it within a certain area, or chicken from your local grocery store and being told you could only make a certain dish using it? would you buy those products, i think not. so why can a movie studio tell me that i can only play a movie i bought in my home dvd player, did you read that warning, yup those are only for private viewing in your home, meaning technically your not allowed to loan it to a friend, they have to buy their own, and if your dvd gets scratched you have to buy a new one because they said you can't make a copy? how is that fair, it doesn't have a warranty on it.

 

[BWK]

Uhhh...Ohhhh....
Here we go, where do you think it will go from here?
BBC News - Music file-sharer 'Oink' cleared of fraud

 

[valtonray]

Uhhh...Ohhhh....
Here we go, where do you think it will go from here?
BBC News - Music file-sharer 'Oink' cleared of fraud

i think it's ridiculous, in the US a user can be fined up to $150000 per song. this guy helped people steal 21 million songs and walks way like nothing happened. now i've always said the fines were still, i personally feel like you should be charged $0.99 per illegal song and if it can be proven how many people you've shared that file with an additional $0.99 per upload, thats reasonable and fair according to itunes so the music industry must be okay with it. but if your gonna make a big show of busting the little people for downloading then when you get one of the sites owner and operators in your hand you don't just let them walk out of the door and pretend it didn't happen.

 

[jimbo45]

I could care less what any of you do and how you decide borrowing software is somehow OK...
I don't have to deal with your choices...only you can decide that...

But please don't insult my intelligence trying to justify the choices you make.

Hi there
English please
could care less means I DO care
couldn't care less means I DON'T care which is what I assume you mean.

Please remember there are people on these Forums where English is NOT the first language and little things like this cause mega confusion over what your meaning is.

Anway its up to the musicians -- if the stuff is only released on Vinyl the problem will never arise --once it's digital then all bets are off as there is NO POWER ON THIS PLANET (or probably any other one either) that can prevent digital copies making their way around the net (or even old fashioned "Disk swapping").

Cheers
jimbo

 

[zigzag3143]

Let play nice
remember rule number one

While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.

 

[seekermeister]

Hi there
English please
could care less means I DO care
couldn't care less means I DON'T care which is what I assume you mean.

While you are grammatically correct, either phraseology is commonly used interchangeably with the same meaning.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Hi there
English please
could care less means I DO care
couldn't care less means I DON'T care which is what I assume you mean.

While you are grammatically correct, either phraseology is commonly used interchangeably with the same meaning.

Just because people say/write it both ways does not change the fact that one phrase is wrong and one phrase is right. I've been a writer my entire professional life, and I'm willing to accept a little bit of fluidity in language. But this one drives me nuts.

I could kill myself.
I couldn't kill myself.

Whatever, same thing, huh?

OK, back to pirates.

 

[Colonel Travis]

I will say that piracy has had a detrimental impact on consumer rights for software and games.
If you want to remain legal at all times, you must buy in the majority of cases to see the full benefits of the package, but then if you are unhappy, you have a very hard time getting a refund. It's almost not worth it. Especially when it comes to games.

I also apply this to entertainment (movies and Music). If the movie that you just saw in the theater was horrible, what recourse does anyone have for a refund? None. Zero. Zip. Ziltch. You are out of luck and out of pocket.

Personally, I find this to be a travesty for consumer rights. In these areas, consumers have no, or extremely little rights.

You have a right to get your money back? What does this mean for the producer - what rights to his own product does he have? Are all producer "rights" are trumped by consumer "rights"?

Who forced you to see a movie? And what about the movie you see that turned out better than you expected? Does the movie studio then get the "right" to charge you extra after the fact? I love movies but going to the theater a lot is expensive, which is why God invented Netflix. I don't sit at home thinking - gee, I wish someone would build an IMAX theater near me and make nothing but movies I consider impeccable and have someone from my bank waiting for me in the lobby with a laser printer after it's over to hand me a refund check in case it was crap.

If you buy a game and return it, how does the store know you didn't copy it, or beat it and then not want it any more? It's not the same as returning a pair of pants. Unless you're a ultra-psychotic seamstress, you can't pirate pants. Ever heard of downloading a trial?

Trust me, I think music people, movie people, game people and the publishing industry need to rethink how they do business these days. But this belief of "I am owed X, Y, and Z under all circumstances" is beyond poisoned selfishness. It's admitting how helpless you think you are over your own life - bad decisions are no longer your fault. You make a poor choice and someone else is to blame. You think a product is too expensive, you demand a lower price that's acceptable to you, never mind that the marketplace finds it acceptable or that someone else worse off than you thinks your price is still too high. If you can't afford something, work at improving your station in life. Move to a different city, a different state, a different country. That's what I did. Do something other than b!tching about how the world doesn't always revolve around you.

 

[Tepid]

Well,, first off,, I am not talking about the money spent in regards to weather or not I can afford something... That is for me to decide and no one else.

But, there is such things as lemon laws for cars and products.
Movies, Music, Games, Software etc. are all products. Regardless of where they came from.
Regardless of anything really... if you aren't happy with the purchase, or the content, there should be some recourse for consumers on this issue. But there is none,, zero,, nada.

Yes, if a game, software, movie, music Cd, whatever, sucks, then I should be able to get my money back.
But instead, I am treated as an untrusted consumer,, or criminal because I am dissatisfied with the product.

Have I consumed that product? yes

Even Food Companies and Resturaunts offer refunds for their products.

 

[pparks1]

But, there is such things as lemon laws for cars and products.
Movies, Music, Games, Software etc. are all products. Regardless of where they came from.
Regardless of anything really... if you aren't happy with the purchase, or the content, there should be some recourse for consumers on this issue. But there is none,, zero,, nada.

Of course, lemon laws for cars are very specific in what they cover and are there to protect against something different.

For example, you cannot buy a car and then later say that it 1) rides too rough and 2) you don't like the cloth seats and take it back and get your money back.

Yes, if a game, software, movie, music Cd, whatever, sucks, then I should be able to get my money back.

I disagree...if stores were to do this, they would be overrun with returns from people who used products and got their enjoyment from them and this would cause higher prices, etc from these retailers.

It's not the stores fault if you walk in, buy a cd and are unhappy with the songs that are on the cd. If the cd is faulty, they need to replace it for you...but they shouldn't refund your money if you didn't like the music.

Even Food Companies and Resturaunts offer refunds for their products.

But typically, you take 1 or 2 bites and complain that there is something wrong. And most often they simply take it back to the kitchen and bring you back out the same thing. I bet you would have a harder time if you consumed the entire thing and then complained in the end that it wasn't as tasty as you had hoped. You might get away with it once or twice...but as a general rule, restaurants aren't going to simply refund your money in that case.

 

[Tepid]

but they shouldn't refund your money if you didn't like the music.

And why Not?

Because as a consumer I cant be trusted anyway.
So, then what real incentive do I have then to become a trusted consumer.
None.

 

[pparks1]

If you don't like the music, blame the artist...not the store that you purchased the cd from. Especially in this day and age when you can typically sample the songs on Amazon.com or listen to the CD's in their entirely in stores like FYE.

And again, with stuff like music...if you were a store would you want to stock merchandise on the shelf knowing that some will come in, buy it, rip it and then take it back and say it wasn't what they wanted and then you would give them all of their money back. That sure would impact your bottom line, probably cause you to either raise prices or not stock merchandise like movies or music...which ultimately hurts the consumer who wants to shop at your store.

 

[Tepid]

I requote myself

Because as a consumer I cant be trusted anyway.
So, what real incentive do I have then to become a trusted consumer?
None.

This is not coming from stores alone,,, this is from the industry as a whole.
If it were merchants alone, this may be a different story, and I might be on your side,, but it's not.

So, what is stopping anyone from producing garbage (which is done, can't deny it) and then selling it and making a mint? That's right, none.

True I don't have to buy it, or see it.

But can you honestly tell me, that you are fine with purchasing garbage and having no recourse for a refund?

If you say yes, you are either in the pockets with them
Or, you don't really care about the issue, or you have another agenda

You can not honestly, and forthright claim yes to that statement.

 

[pparks1]

I requote myself

Because as a consumer I cant be trusted anyway.
So, what real incentive do I have then to become a trusted consumer?
None.

To that I would say, Buck up and accept responsibilities for your action. If you buy a cd and you don't like it...then don't support that artist anymore or don't continue to buy music. Sometimes in life you have to take chances and accept the consequences.

People all too often just hide behind the excuses. It's not fair, it's too limited, my rights are being violated, etc. It's like Windows...if you don't like what it costs...don't run it. It's as simple as that. You don't "need" Windows on your computer for it to function. But if Linux won't meet your needs because you are a gamer...then accept the fact that you will have to pay for a copy of Windows and just buy it and be done with it. If games are that important to you, the copy of the OS should be acceptable to.

 

[Colonel Travis]

But, there is such things as lemon laws for cars and products.
Movies, Music, Games, Software etc. are all products. Regardless of where they came from.
Regardless of anything really... if you aren't happy with the purchase, or the content, there should be some recourse for consumers on this issue. But there is none,, zero,, nada.

As far as I know you can return any video game or CD or DVD to any retailer as long as you haven't opened it. If you can't, screw them they should go out of business. But what happens when you open it? You cannot prove you haven't played it or copied it. If every retailer changed their policy, every game, every DVD, every CD would be opened, copied and returned.

All products and services are not alike. You can't pirate a Ford 150. You can't unsee a movie. You live in the information age. How about getting some information about stuff before opening your wallet? You act like everyone else is responsible for your bank account and general decision-making except you.