Continuing the Fight Against Piracy.

[Tepid]

Again,,,

so,, there is no such thing as a Trusted Consumer.

You act like everyone else is responsible for your bank account and general decision-making except you.

No I don't, absolutely not,,, see my sig for one.
But I believe that there should be some recourse/protection for consumers when it comes to music, software, game and movies.

One of the biggest problems with music, (and yes,, new avenues ahve opened up to get only the songs you want off a disc,, this is true), but artists may have one song per CD that is actually any good.

I am not going to argue about piracy,,, cause I am not advocating it or arguing for it.
I am arguing the rights of individuals to be protected from purchasing garbage.

You can't always tell from a trial of something, or listening to a snippet of a song or seeing the previews of a movie.

It's not hard to make a pile of dog poo look really good, that's not hard to do with movies and music.
Spending more time researching weather I want to see or hear something before actually doing so, is, well, stupid. And can be a waste of time.

I am a big advocate of voting with dollars,, no company is too big to fail.
So don't go there with me.

but consumers should ahve some rights in this area where they have none.

 

[pparks1]

So, what is stopping anyone from producing garbage (which is done, can't deny it) and then selling it and making a mint? That's right, none.

Ok, well Metallica recently released a new cd "Death Magnetic" and for Metallica fans it was great because it was a return to their older style. However, the recording the CD as a whole left a lot to be desired. In fact, if you google it you will find many stories about how it was too loud and distorted, etc.

At the end of the day, I'm disappointed in the sound quality...but don't feel that Best Buy should return my money to me. I can make a choice the next time that Metallica releases another CD..as to whether I will continue to support them as a band. At the end of the day though, I liked the songs and went to see Metallica perform live and it was fantastic. So, the $9.99 that I spent was worth it...even though the sound quality is not great.

But can you honestly tell me, that you are fine with purchasing garbage and having no recourse for a refund?

To me, I buy a ton of CD's. I've only had a few (like the one mentioned above), that was really a problem. If overall, an overwhelming majority of what was being produced was garbage and I felt it was garbage...I wouldn't require a refund because I would stop purchasing it all together. But overall, I have been genuinely happy with well over 95% of the materials that I am purchasing. Perhaps other people need to do a bit more research before making their purchases and would have less remorse in the end. Or perhaps people need to realize that they take a chance with their choices. Not all cd's will be great, not all movies will be exactly what you want....but life is an experience and sometimes it costs a bit.

Here is another example. In July I bought parts to build a new PC. One thing I bought was a Seagate 1TB 7200.12 hard drive. For whatever reason, in my new computer, the access times were off (25-40ms). Nothing that I tried resolved the problem. However, when put into another machine, it performed just fine. Rather than fight NewEgg and try to get my money back...which would be hard since it wasn't really the hard drive that was defective..it worked in other machines just not the 1 that I bought it for....I simply bought a new Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB for my new machine, put the Seagate 7200.12 into my main linux box and now have the 320GB WD that was in the Linux box as a spare. Sure, some would have fought with NewEgg for that money back, but after analyzing the situation, I realized this was not NewEgg's fault and just went with the drive.

 

[Tepid]

I wouldn't require a refund

But that is your choice to not ask for one...

So who left you in charge of all this to make that decision for me?

You are then saying that because you don't think I should be asking for a refund I do not deserve one?

Tyranny comes in many packages.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Again,,,
I am arguing the rights of individuals to be protected from purchasing garbage.

At first I could not understand why you'd say such a thing, because I'm on your side with most your points, Tepid. Honestly. Then I read the following:

Again,,,
Spending more time researching weather I want to see or hear something before actually doing so, is, well, stupid. And can be a waste of time.

No wonder you're mad about wasting your money.

 

[Tepid]

There is a difference between looking and stuff (reviews etc) and spending a lot of time deciding weather you want to do something. I didn't fully clarify that, it was kinda flippant.

Reading a couple reviews isn't really going to tell you a whole lot.
Roger and Ebert used to give thumbs up to some really crappy movies. you can't go on that alone and opinions are like A-holes. So, spending more time researching than actually doing is in fact stupid.
So, after making the decision, and finding that others opinons were not in line with mine, leaves me out of pocket on something I did not enjoy.

Hope that helps clarify it better.


*****
For the record,, if you read my sig, you have to know that I am not against anyone making money. I am a true capitalist. But there also needs to be true balance. And in this industry there is none.

I am not trying to get something for nothing,, which brings me back to the Trusted Consumer. Are we all criminals? Are we all to be treated as such?
Really? If you don't think that is what this all boils down to, then your heads in the sand.

I have made some pretty flippant statements, true. But I am not irresponsible about decisions either. But after making a decision, and buying into something that turns out to be garbage and having no recourse to recoup costs?

How does that really benefit the consumer at all?
In what way?

I, the consumer, not only wasted my time, but also my money, a consumer should be able to recoup the money.

And as stated,, people have the choice to get a refund or not, and if they liked it, then they shouldn't be asking for one. But again,, what choice does anyone have now? None.

 

[pparks1]

Roger and Ebert used to give thumbs up to some really crappy movies. you can't go on that alone and opinions are like A-holes. So, spending more time researching than actually doing is in fact stupid.

Of course, if you are talking about a 90 minute movie that costs $8...why would you put that much time into researching it? There comes a time when your time has more value than the research.

I just seriously don't see how you can justify being able to get your money back if you claim that you did not like a film. What would stop somebody then from seeing all of the films showing and then asking for a refund for 75% or more of them simply because they felt they didn't get their monies worth??? How do you quantify whether or not you enjoyed the film? Exactly how much enjoyment would you require in order to accept paying for the movie? Maybe if you only like the movie 50%, you could get 1/2 of your money back???

 

[DrWho]

On the topic of software prices, I'm reminded of my all time favorite quote from a very poor eastern European country....... "We don't buy no steenkin' sofware!"

Over there, it's not piracy, but just self preservation. When companies like Microsoft get REAL with their software and OS pricing, then piracy will no longer be necessary.

Anything sold in any store in town, can be found on the internet in just a few seconds and downloaded in a few minutes.

I'm certainly NOT advocating software piracy, but merely saying that in many places around the world, its a way of life.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor

 

[Colonel Travis]

Tepid - I know where you're coming from, appreciate the debate. I've gone on imdb many times and seen a movie rated well and then I'll see it and think - what the hell movie did these people see? My recourse for that at this point in my life is to not see any first run film in a theater unless there's a 99.99% guarantee that I'm gonna like it. There's a dollar theater around the corner from me, and there's Netflix. Not going to pay these Hollywood morons any more money than I have to. Actually, it's my approach to everything else in the marketplace - prove to my wallet that you are not a @#$!% moron.

 

[Tepid]

Tepid - I know where you're coming from, appreciate the debate. I've gone on imdb many times and seen a movie rated well and then I'll see it and think - what the hell movie did these people see? My recourse for that at this point in my life is to not see any first run film in a theater unless there's a 99.99% guarantee that I'm gonna like it. There's a dollar theater around the corner from me, and there's Netflix. Not going to pay these Hollywood morons any more money than I have to. Actually, it's my approach to everything else in the marketplace - prove to my wallet that you are not a @#$!% moron.

I too appreciate the debate here.And I understand what you say as well,, and I agree. Which is why we don't go out much either and maybe seee 2 movies a year, if that in the theater.

Netflix is a better deal, especially with BluRay now.

Just watch South Park episode with Mel Gibson and the Christ movie.
I feel like Stan and Kyle sometimes. Hunt them down and demand a refund.

Anyway, I think I have made my point enough on this subject.

See ya.

 

[Tepid]

Of course, if you are talking about a 90 minute movie that costs $8

Ok,, one more point,,,,

Try something more like 40$ for 2 people.

If you want to talk about an industry that makes WAYYYyy too much money,, try hollywood an sports.
Most of them people really don't deserve what they make. I won't stand in there way of doing it, but people really should put these people in there places and stop contributing the kinda money they do to them.

Voting with dollars is a much more powerful tool than law.

Oh,, just thought,, we might have to bail them out too cause they are too big to fail.

 

[pparks1]

Try something more like 40$ for 2 people.

Tickets at my local theater are $8..that's why I used that number. So, for me it would be $16 for 2 adults in the evenings. I guess if you factor in the cost of concessions and stuff the price goes up even more. However, the concessions aren't required by any means...so it seems ridiculous to lump them into process. Should you also get your money back on your concessions if you weren't happy with the movie?

I agree that the movie industry and the sporting industry is mega-buck big dollar enterprise. And generally speaking, I don't have the cash to support either of them. I rarely attend a sporting event, I don't buy any sporting merchandise and I rent 95% of my movies with Netflix or watch them on premium cable channels.

 

[Tepid]

Should you also get your money back on your concessions if you weren't happy with the movie?

Seriously? Now you are just reaching.

 

[pparks1]

Should you also get your money back on your concessions if you weren't happy with the movie?

Seriously? Now you are just reaching.

I'm not the person who said that movies were more like $40 for 2 people. The only way that I could reach that number was with concessions. And I assumed if you were concerned about the $40 spent, you would be concerned with all of it. So, that's why I asked where you draw the line. I don't really think it's out of line at all.

 

[Tepid]

A. Are they needed? No

B. Do they add to a better experience for going to the movies? Yes

C. Do I include them in the price of going to a movie? Yes

D. Are they thought of the same way as a movie? No. That is stupid

E. Can you get a refund if not happy with the quality? Yes

F. Are conssesions Expensive? Yes. But that is the cost of running a theater, they are (as far as I know) completely separate side of the business. They don't make enough off of ticket sales. As I understand it. And if they do, and charge so much just because they can, that is called gauging and another reason to not go. But I do not believe that is the case.

Again, I have made my points clear. And now I am done.