BSODs - Motherboard or PSU?

[Chrheff]

Hello,

I've been dealing with a strange series of BSODs for a while now. My computer will be stable for several days to a week, then randomly bluescreen. Afterwards, the bsods and other crashes occur constantly with random errors. Memtest 86 detects RAM problems, but after swapping it from the 1,3 slots to the 2,4 slots problems ceased. Normally, I would assume that means bad slots, but when I swap the sticks back to the 1,3 slots it stabilizes again for a few days. I've flashed the BIOS to the latest version and the severity of the crashes reduced, but there are still problems.

Has anyone encountered anything like this before or have any idea how to deal with it? I'm upgrading my power supply from an Antec 650W to a Corsair 950W, but I'm worried my motherboard might be the actual culprit.

Thanks for your help!

 

[JMH]

Hello,

I've been dealing with a strange series of BSODs for a while now. My computer will be stable for several days to a week, then randomly bluescreen. Afterwards, the bsods and other crashes occur constantly with random errors. Memtest 86 detects RAM problems, but after swapping it from the 1,3 slots to the 2,4 slots problems ceased. Normally, I would assume that means bad slots, but when I swap the sticks back to the 1,3 slots it stabilizes again for a few days. I've flashed the BIOS to the latest version and the severity of the crashes reduced, but there are still problems.

Has anyone encountered anything like this before or have any idea how to deal with it? I'm upgrading my power supply from an Antec 650W to a Corsair 950W, but I'm worried my motherboard might be the actual culprit.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Chrheff & welcome,
We will get a more definitive overview of your problems if you follow this advice -
[1 - Novice] How to ask for help with a BSOD problem

Upload all of the minidump files located in C:\Windows\Minidump
If you require more help let us know.

 

[Chrheff]

Here're the minidump files from when problems originally started back in February.

 

[Crispy]

A few thing you need to do is make sure your directX is up to date, uninstall your graphic card drivers and control center and download memtest86 run it at least 5 times lets us know how things go.

 

[Chrheff]

Hello again,

DirectX and all the drivers are up to date, though I did do as you said. The memtest went fine. I've run it up to 15 times when the system is stable without any errors detected. I've taken it to multiple repair places and have had other people look at it, and it's pretty much the same pattern every time. Problems start, I get repeated random BSODs. Windows refuses to boot, even in safe mode sometimes. I single test each memory stick in slot one and they pass fine. I move them to slots 2 and 4 and it seems to be stable, though I haven't kept them in there for an extended period of time. Then I move them back to slots 1 and 3 and it will remain stable for a few days to over a week before the crashes resume again.

 

[JMH]

Hello again,

DirectX and all the drivers are up to date, though I did do as you said. The memtest went fine. I've run it up to 15 times when the system is stable without any errors detected. I've taken it to multiple repair places and have had other people look at it, and it's pretty much the same pattern every time. Problems start, I get repeated random BSODs. Windows refuses to boot, even in safe mode sometimes. I single test each memory stick in slot one and they pass fine. I move them to slots 2 and 4 and it seems to be stable, though I haven't kept them in there for an extended period of time. Then I move them back to slots 1 and 3 and it will remain stable for a few days to over a week before the crashes resume again.

Until our "resident experts" come in on this thread I am doing some lateral thinking -

Have you run a system file check to verify and repair your system files?
Go to search - right click to run as Administrator - type in sfc /scannow. [Make sure you have a space between sfc and /]
Let us know the result.

What anti-virus application or security suite is installed and is your
subscription current?

What anti-spyware applications? (other than Defender)
What third-party firewall? (if any)

Has a Norton or McAfee application ever been installed on the
computer? (e.g., a free-trial version that came preinstalled when you bought
it)

 

[Chrheff]

Thank you for the ideas. I've done a lot to make sure it's not a software problem, but there's always a chance I missed something.

I ran a system file check a while back. I did it again and everything turned up fine.

I use ESET NOD32. It has antivirus, antispyware, and a firewall. I built the computer, so it's never had Norton or McAfee on it.

 

[JMH]

Thank you for the ideas. I've done a lot to make sure it's not a software problem, but there's always a chance I missed something.

I ran a system file check a while back. I did it again and everything turned up fine.

I use ESET NOD32. It has antivirus, antispyware, and a firewall. I built the computer, so it's never had Norton or McAfee on it.

Resident experts notified. Not all are online so please be patient.
I will follow your progress with interest......

 

[zigzag3143]

Thank you for the ideas. I've done a lot to make sure it's not a software problem, but there's always a chance I missed something.

I ran a system file check a while back. I did it again and everything turned up fine.

I use ESET NOD32. It has antivirus, antispyware, and a firewall. I built the computer, so it's never had Norton or McAfee on it.

So where are you now?

Have we ever seen the acutual DMP files?

W need to find where you are now to know how to proceed. I think we need to get more aggressive to find and fix this problem. Before we do you need to have a backup, a restore point, and a win 7 dvd.

When you have done all of these let us know

You can also read here. http://www.sevenforums.com/crash-lo...-driver-verifier-identify-issues-drivers.html



Ken

 

[smarteyeball]

Thank you for the ideas. I've done a lot to make sure it's not a software problem, but there's always a chance I missed something.

The fact that it fails to boot Safe mode etc and has failed memtest 86+ on occasions does strongly tend to suggest hardware rather than software.

Just a few other ideas:

The sporadic ram failure may indicate a flaky memory controller or vregs (voltage regulators) on the mobo itself.

There are bent pins in the CPU socket, resulting in improper CPU pad/pin contact.

The PSU is running out of spec - did any of the repair places test the PSU?

(One of the rails is erratic / occasionally not providing sufficient juice -it's a good model, but even good ones can be bad)

None of the above.

 

[Chrheff]

So where are you now?

Have we ever seen the acutual DMP files?

W need to find where you are now to know how to proceed. I think we need to get more aggressive to find and fix this problem. Before we do you need to have a backup, a restore point, and a win 7 dvd.

When you have done all of these let us know

You can also read here. http://www.sevenforums.com/crash-lo...-driver-verifier-identify-issues-drivers.html



Ken

Hello,

The DMP files are linked in my second post. I've gone through all of them on windbg and there're no consistent drivers that're causing problems.

I have a restore point set up. I have one file I need to back up, but I tend to be pretty thorough about that since these problems have gone on a while. I also have a Win7 DVD. I have used the Driver Verifier before when I was having problems. It crashed constantly, but, again, there was no consistency as to the cause. I have not run it when the system was stable.

The fact that it fails to boot Safe mode etc and has failed memtest 86+ on occasions does strongly tend to suggest hardware rather than software.

Just a few other ideas:

The sporadic ram failure may indicate a flaky memory controller or vregs (voltage regulators) on the mobo itself.

There are bent pins in the CPU socket, resulting in improper CPU pad/pin contact.

The PSU is running out of spec - did any of the repair places test the PSU?

(One of the rails is erratic / occasionally not providing sufficient juice -it's a good model, but even good ones can be bad)

None of the above.

Hello,

I've checked the cpu socket and it's fine. I've also run Prime95 to stress it and that runs fine. To be thorough, I've checked temperatures and the system runs under load at around 45C.

We have not been able to tell beyond that whether it's the motherboard or the psu. Some strange things have happened, though. The first set of crashes, which occurred in February, were because the RAM was not getting enough voltage. It was receiving 1.8V when it should've been getting 2.1 I corrected this in BIOS and it stabilized for a while before the crashes resumed. I also updated the BIOS recently and that seems to have reduced the severity of the crashes, though not eliminated them.

None of the repair places have tested the PSU or swapped out the motherboard. The major problem with diagnoses is that the system runs stable for extended periods of time before destabilizing and crashing repeatedly. In addition, swapping the RAM back and forth eliminates the symptoms without fixing the underlying problem, making it even harder to diagnose. I am getting the new PSU this week, so I will be able to swap out my old one.

Thank you again for the help.


Edit: I almost forgot. One thing that does incline me to think something strange is going on with the psu is that my video card is benchmarking about half of what it should be. Though, I am by no means an expert.

 

[JMH]

Hello,

I've checked the cpu socket and it's fine. I've also run Prime95 to stress it and that runs fine. To be thorough, I've checked temperatures and the system runs under load at around 45C.

We have not been able to tell beyond that whether it's the motherboard or the psu. Some strange things have happened, though. The first set of crashes, which occurred in February, were because the RAM was not getting enough voltage. It was receiving 1.8V when it should've been getting 2.1 I corrected this in BIOS and it stabilized for a while before the crashes resumed. I also updated the BIOS recently and that seems to have reduced the severity of the crashes, though not eliminated them.

None of the repair places have tested the PSU or swapped out the motherboard. The major problem with diagnoses is that the system runs stable for extended periods of time before destabilizing and crashing repeatedly. In addition, swapping the RAM back and forth eliminates the symptoms without fixing the underlying problem, making it even harder to diagnose. I am getting the new PSU this week, so I will be able to swap out my old one.

Thank you again for the help.


Edit: I almost forgot. One thing that does incline me to think something strange is going on with the psu is that my video card is benchmarking about half of what it should be. Though, I am by no means an expert.

Chrheff,
You are articulate & investigating in a thorough way. Trial & error & the process of elimination are often necessary.......
Good luck.

 

[smarteyeball]

Some strange things have happened, though. The first set of crashes, which occurred in February, were because the RAM was not getting enough voltage. It was receiving 1.8V when it should've been getting 2.1 I corrected this in BIOS and it stabilized for a while before the crashes resumed. I also updated the BIOS recently and that seems to have reduced the severity of the crashes, though not eliminated them.

Long shot here, but do these renewed bouts of crashes coincide with the BIOS 'forgetting' the settings?

Also, was the system time/date affected as well? If so, it could be the CMOS battery failing.

None of the repair places have tested the PSU or swapped out the motherboard.

Hmm.

The major problem with diagnoses is that the system runs stable for extended periods of time before destabilizing and crashing repeatedly. In addition, swapping the RAM back and forth eliminates the symptoms without fixing the underlying problem, making it even harder to diagnose.

*sigh* the joys of trouble shooting the sporadic stable/not stable system. I know it well

I am getting the new PSU this week, so I will be able to swap out my old one.

Edit: I almost forgot. One thing that does incline me to think something strange is going on with the psu is that my video card is benchmarking about half of what it should be. Though, I am by no means an expert.

Well fingers crossed that the new PSU solves it.

In the interim, does your BIOS have any voltage reporting for the 12v 5v 3.3v etc?

While not accurate, they can at least give an indication if something is out of whack.

If it does, try:HWINFO to monitor the reported voltages.

 

[Chrheff]

Long shot here, but do these renewed bouts of crashes coincide with the BIOS 'forgetting' the settings?

Also, was the system time/date affected as well? If so, it could be the CMOS battery failing.

That was one of my first thoughts, too. I checked the settings after the crashes and they remained the same. The date/time has not been affected either. That reminds me, though, after one crash I got a message saying BIOS recovered from the hard drive. The computer was such a mess at that point that I don't trust that as anything more than a symptom. One other note is that, before some crashes, the color scheme would change to basic.

In the interim, does your BIOS have any voltage reporting for the 12v 5v 3.3v etc?

While not accurate, they can at least give an indication if something is out of whack.

I've checked the voltages in BIOS and on speedfan and they all remain within a few % of their specified amounts.

Not much makes sense. If it was the motherboard, why does it recover when I return the memory sticks to 1,3? if it's the power supply, why doesn't it seem to affect them when they're in 2,4? (that I've seen so far). Oh well, I'll know more soon (hopefully).

 

[Chrheff]

Well, something just happened as I was typing that up. I noticed that superfetch crashed, which has occured before a few of my other crashes, and I ran memtest and sure enough errors popped up with the sticks in 2,4. I swapped them back to 1,3 and they went away. I guess after every crash I can just swap my RAM sticks, but that'd probably wear out the slots eventually not to mention would start feeling kinda silly. Still, it means it's not the RAM slot that's at fault. That leaves the... motherboard and psu and who knows what else. One thing I noticed, though, is that the RAM faults always traced to the same general location in the memtest, but I don't know if that means anything.

 

[Chrheff]

I just did some thinking. Dunno if this makes sense, but it's the best I could come up with.

Memory errors were showing up before the crash, though when it crashes memtests detects a lot more problems. So problems are gradually accumulating.

The swapping of the RAM sticks wasn't what was actually stabilizing the system. When I swap the RAM, I turn off all the power and everything else, so what was helping was the fact that the current was draining from the RAM. Does that make sense? I only have limited experience with this sort of thing.

So I guess the next step is, after a crash occurs, to turn off the computer and unplug it for a few hours and see if that stabilizes it?

 

[smarteyeball]

It's a curly one alright.

All the in Windows problems can be caused by and linked to the culprit hardware. They are just a side effect.

At a hunch, I'd put my money on the mobo - as to what specific component - I really couldn't say with any degree of certainty.

Have you noticed any broken/bent/bulging capacitors on the mobo - particularly around the Dimm slot area?


Like you suggested - After the next crash, unplug the power, depress the power button to discharge any remaining current and let it sit for a little while unplugged 5-10mins (it shouldn't need hours for the mobo to fully discharge).

Then try again with the exact same setup ands see what happens.

 

[Chrheff]

Hello,

I checked the motherboard and there's no sign of any problems with the capacitors. The fact the RAM is failing in the 2,4 slots, though, means it might be the RAM as well, since I originally figured it wasn't because it would function there. In memtest86, the same area on the RAM fails each time - 960.2MB. Sort of dumb to only point this out now, but it's been a while since I've gone back to memtest testing. I can't remember the exact addresses but there're two that seem to have problems.

Next time it crashes I'll let it sit unplugged, but I'm going to run it on each stick individually for a few days and see if it crashes.

 

[JMH]

Keep us posted please.

 

[Dwarf]

It's going to take some time, but when you run it on one stick, don't forget to repeat the test with the stick in each slot.