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Windows 7: Permissions issue with Win 7

01 Apr 2010   #11
Barman58

Windows 10 Pro x64 x3, Ubuntu
 
 

Just a couple of clarifying points

Simple sharing, which is available in xp for backwards compatibility with older systems, should only be used with file systems that do not have file level security. ie. Fat, Fat32 exFAT.

With NTFS based disks you must use advanced sharing, as this works with the file level security.

The only difference between the Home and Work network types in Win7 is the functionality of Homegroup. This is available when on a home network but not on a work network.

Homegroup, of course, is only available between win7 systems, but will work fine in parallel with a standard workkgroup, (Peer to Peer), network.

Identical workgroup and subnet settings are essential for Microsoft networking (workgroup), Identical usernames with passwords does make things work better too.

The other thing to remember is that advanced workgroup sharing is a dual layer process, a user needs to have sharing rights and file access rights to access a shared file


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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01 Apr 2010   #12
speedlever

Windows 7 x64 home premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post

Question... Did you follow my settings exactly on the Win7 machine?
Double check to be shure... I took them right out of my own system, so I know they work.

Attachment 64379[
I had to fix the very last setting... Home/Group settings.. use UA and pw to connect to other computers. Otherwise, everything was identical.

Now I'll have to log off/on to check it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Apr 2010   #13
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I had to fix the very last setting... Home/Group settings.. use UA and pw to connect to other computers. Otherwise, everything was identical.

Now I'll have to log off/on to check it.
Okey dokey... keep me posted...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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01 Apr 2010   #14
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
Just a couple of clarifying points

Simple sharing, which is available in xp for backwards compatibility with older systems, should only be used with file systems that do not have file level security. ie. Fat, Fat32 exFAT.

With NTFS based disks you must use advanced sharing, as this works with the file level security.
Yeah but that's easily turned off in Folder Settings->View.


Quote:
Identical workgroup and subnet settings are essential for Microsoft networking (workgroup), Identical usernames with passwords does make things work better too.

The other thing to remember is that advanced workgroup sharing is a dual layer process, a user needs to have sharing rights and file access rights to access a shared file
Actually there's little if any reason to mess with file permissions for sharing. Since you have to log onto a given machine with a username and password that exists on that machine, it's THAT account that controls file access. The simple answer is to log into an account that has admin priveledges (the default in XP).

I do appreciate the extra infor about Home Networks though... Lord only knows why Microsoft keeps changing this. They had it right in Win2000 and they just have to keep tampering with it...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Apr 2010   #15
speedlever

Windows 7 x64 home premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
Just a couple of clarifying points

Simple sharing, which is available in xp for backwards compatibility with older systems, should only be used with file systems that do not have file level security. ie. Fat, Fat32 exFAT.

With NTFS based disks you must use advanced sharing, as this works with the file level security.

The only difference between the Home and Work network types in Win7 is the functionality of Homegroup. This is available when on a home network but not on a work network.

Homegroup, of course, is only available between win7 systems, but will work fine in parallel with a standard workkgroup, (Peer to Peer), network.

Identical workgroup and subnet settings are essential for Microsoft networking (workgroup), Identical usernames with passwords does make things work better too.

The other thing to remember is that advanced workgroup sharing is a dual layer process, a user needs to have sharing rights and file access rights to access a shared file
Interesting. I've always used simple file sharing on all my NTFS disks.

What you're saying about Home vs Work (W7) networks sounds like Home should work equally well in my XP/Vista/W7 mix.

My laptop and main PC have identical user names and passwords. The other 3 computers in the system have different user names and passwords.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Apr 2010   #16
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
Interesting. I've always used simple file sharing on all my NTFS disks.
Ok, you should go to Folder Settings -> View ... at the bottom of the list uncheck the box for simple sharing. This will mean recreating the shares on your XP machines, but that shouldn't be much of a problem. Just right click the folder and select Sharing... The rest is pretty straight forward, just remember to check the permissions when you do.

Quote:
What you're saying about Home vs Work (W7) networks sounds like Home should work equally well in my XP/Vista/W7 mix.
If you use user account and password sharing, with the homegroup password shut off... maybe... But I keep seeing problems so I just kill the whole homegroup thing and it seems to work a lot better.


Quote:
My laptop and main PC have identical user names and passwords. The other 3 computers in the system have different user names and passwords.
Ok... after you create your shares... go to each machine on the network, from every other machine on the network... when you are asked for usernames and passwords enter the user name and password for the remote machine and click the "remember me" box... You should only have to do this once. You may have to go to a couple of your user accounts directly and actually create passwords for them.

I'm attaching a little autologon tool I wrote that you can use to have a pasworded account go direct to the desktop on startup... Just run the tool once, enter the username and password and click "Enable".... it's pretty easy.


Attached Files
File Type: zip AutoLogonTool.zip (6.6 KB, 2 views)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Apr 2010   #17
speedlever

Windows 7 x64 home premium
 
 

I guess XP/pro recreates its shares after that option (to use simple file sharing) is UNchecked. IAC, I have not had to logon to the XP/pro laptop in order to view the files. The initial problem is solved, other issues remain.

Am still having issues with the XP/home netbooks... but haven't had time to work on them.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Apr 2010   #18
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I guess XP/pro recreates its shares after that option (to use simple file sharing) is UNchecked. IAC, I have not had to logon to the XP/pro laptop in order to view the files. The initial problem is solved, other issues remain.

Am still having issues with the XP/home netbooks... but haven't had time to work on them.
As I explained, when you turn off simple file sharing you will have to create new shares on a folder by folder basis.

Anyway I'm glad you got your intial problem sorted... Good luck with the others.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Apr 2010   #19
speedlever

Windows 7 x64 home premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I guess XP/pro recreates its shares after that option (to use simple file sharing) is UNchecked. IAC, I have not had to logon to the XP/pro laptop in order to view the files. The initial problem is solved, other issues remain.

Am still having issues with the XP/home netbooks... but haven't had time to work on them.
As I explained, when you turn off simple file sharing you will have to create new shares on a folder by folder basis.

Anyway I'm glad you got your intial problem sorted... Good luck with the others.
Guess I'm not exactly following what you mean on a folder by folder basis. I made the changes to the laptop's single drive under Tools/folder options/view/uncheck simple file sharing. I then shared the drive, chose the share name, set permissions and ok'd out.

When I go back into sharing of the drive/folder, I note that it changes the share name back to C$ (and the drop down list has both C$ and my chosen name). Does that mean it won't accept the changes I made?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Apr 2010   #20
CommonTater

XP Pro SP3 X86 / Win7 Pro X86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I guess XP/pro recreates its shares after that option (to use simple file sharing) is UNchecked. IAC, I have not had to logon to the XP/pro laptop in order to view the files. The initial problem is solved, other issues remain.

Am still having issues with the XP/home netbooks... but haven't had time to work on them.
As I explained, when you turn off simple file sharing you will have to create new shares on a folder by folder basis.

Anyway I'm glad you got your intial problem sorted... Good luck with the others.
Guess I'm not exactly following what you mean on a folder by folder basis. I made the changes to the laptop's single drive under Tools/folder options/view/uncheck simple file sharing. I then shared the drive, chose the share name, set permissions and ok'd out.

When I go back into sharing of the drive/folder, I note that it changes the share name back to C$ (and the drop down list has both C$ and my chosen name). Does that mean it won't accept the changes I made?
The dropdown is telling you it's shared under two different names. This is not an uncommon practice if you want to have differing permission levels for each user or usergroup.

But... a small suggestion (from hard experience) if I may... you should never share the ROOT of a drive... It is far more secure and far more manageable to make shares on only those folders you want shared... For example: you could right click on your "My Music" folder and share it... then "My Videos" and "My Pictures"... but not "My Documents" which may contain personal or private stuff you don't want people on your LAN to see.... It is, for reasons of security, far better to share 10 folders than 1 drive.

As for yourself as the Net Admin, you can always use the hidden C$, D$, etc. shares to access the root of the drive when necessary, as I demonstrated.

For an example... here's a screenshot of my HTPC's shares... The HTPC is running XP and the snip is taken from my desktop which is on Windows 7...

Permissions issue with Win 7-capture.jpg

This is what anyone on my LAN will see.
As the network admin I can access the root of the drive as \\volts\d$ if I need to...

In XP the share->permissions contains 2 entries...

Everyone ... read box is checked.
CommonTater ... full access box is checked.

That way the kids can't delete each others files... but I can!
(Mind you the kids are in their late 20s and should know better)


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