Issue with Windows Backup creating System Image

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

Need help with a Windows backup problem.

I'm trying to create a system image of my OS drive (C). This is an SSD drive. Anyway whenever I attempt to create the image, Windows Backup automatically selects my game drive (M) along with C drive and I can’t deselect it. In short I have no choice but to have both drives selected.

Now, I do have the MBR on the "C" drive and there are no boot records, files, or folders of any kind on the "M" drive. Yes, I have show all hidden files and folders in folder view enabled.

And to double check that C doesn’t need M, I’ve physically removed it and all other drives from the system, and C boots up just fine.

Also, there are no other OS’s loaded into the boot loader, just Window 7. I’ve even used this fix again just be sure everything was on C drive - http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/83800-boot-loader-separate-partition.html#post726684

BTW I did create a system image of just C drive by leaving the other drives disconnected, after which I re-connected the drives, tried to create another system image and yes, Windows Backup is STILL insisting on adding the M drive as well.

Anyone have any thoughts on what’s going on? It’s really annoying.

Thanks

Mike Connor · Jan 7, 2011

I gave up with windows image and now use this;

Free Backup Software for Hard Drive System Backup and Restore. Backup freeware for data backup and disaster recovery in Windows 7/XP/Vista and Linux - EASEUS

<http://www.todo-backup.com/>

No problems since.

Regards....Mike Connor

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

Thanks Mike, but the problem I have is I want to use Windows Backup for my image. I need to know why Windows Backup is doing something that it has no logical reason for doing.

BTW I also have a decent backup program in Acronis True Image 2010 which I've already used to create an image.

Again, need to know why Windows Backup keeps insisting on including a drive that has nothing to do with booting the system.

Thanks.

mjf · Jan 7, 2011

A disk management screen shot and BIOS boot order could help with suggestions.

gregrocker · Jan 7, 2011

Sounds like you've confirmed there are no System files on Games partition so this is likely a fluke. A screenshot would verify this.

I'd just unplug it during imaging as it won't be referenced at all then. You'd want to have all other drives unplugged during reimaging anyway.

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

Not sure what you're looking for in the BIOS, but I can assure you that the SSD drive is the first boot drive.

As for the disk management screen, the C drive is active and does contain the MBR,

Tis no mere rookie here

Again, I fail to understand why WBU is insisting on asking for a drive with not boot records.

gregrocker said:
Sounds like you've confirmed there are no System files on Games partition so this is likely a fluke. A screenshot would verify this.

I'd just unplug it during imaging as it won't be referenced at all then. You'd want to have all other drives unplugged during reimaging anyway.

Thanks Greg, that's what I did. It's just annoying that this is happening for no reason. Also as you might imagine, physically disconnecting a drive to do an image is not idea. Really would like to know what the heck is going on.

Thanks

Just in case....

mjf · Jan 7, 2011

gregrocker said:
I'd just unplug it during imaging as it won't be referenced at all then.

Pragmatic maybe if the restore also works, but clearly there is an unresolved issue.

Cato · Jan 7, 2011

I had the same problem when I first got Windows 7 over a year ago. Instead of trying to find out "why" I just went to a third party backup. I had forgot about this problem until I saw your post and now I'm wondering if the following is something that will help:

http://www.windows7news.com/2010/09/10/solving-windows-image-backup-problems/

In my case it was trying to backup a partition on my second hard drive, the same as yours is doing. I wish I had checked further into then, but I was more interested in getting a backup and learning W7. Would be good to know if this works.

whs · Jan 7, 2011

I really do not want to be sarcastic, but this is your problem:

the problem I have is I want to use Windows Backup for my image

We all know by now that the windows imaging (as the other Windows backup facilities) are very capricious, to say the least. I hope you are only experimenting with it for the academic interest and do not intend to rely on them for your production system. Acronis and some of the other options are a lot better for that.

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

Thanks Cato, excellent find! Yeah that looks like what might be going on here. However I'm a little reluctant to try the procedures as I don't want to give up any more hard disk space on my SSD drive. Also It appears that I don’t have the 100MB partition anyway as Windows never seemed to create one for me as shown in disk part…..

@whs, not to be obtuse, but I would like to use a feature that’s supposed to work. However I do see now that the program is buggy.

My post is to try and find a solution, if none can be found, no sleep will be lost. Now I do value your opinion in this matter as to restoring an image that obviously needs to be aligned correctly on an SSD drive, and from my understanding, ATI2010 doesn’t do this properly, thus my interest in Windows Backup.

In other words when you restore an image to an SSD drive, it will get the default 63 sectors offset instead of 64kb (or a multiple of 64kb) offset recommended for SSD drives even if this offset was in place when the image had been created. This may result in a drop of performance on certain models of SSD drives after the restore;

Solid State Drive Support in Acronis Products | Knowledge Base

Since Windows Backup seems buggy, and ATI2010 is said not to properly align a SSD drive during an image restore, what do you recommend other than ATI 2011?

Thanks

mjf · Jan 7, 2011

Cato said:
I had the same problem when I first got Windows 7 over a year ago. Instead of trying to find out "why" I just went to a third party backup. I had forgot about this problem until I saw your post and now I'm wondering if the following is something that will help:

http://www.windows7news.com/2010/09/10/solving-windows-image-backup-problems/

In my case it was trying to backup a partition on my second hard drive, the same as yours is doing. I wish I had checked further into then, but I was more interested in getting a backup and learning W7. Would be good to know if this works.

It's a good idea except he doesn't have a separate 100MB system reserved which can run out of shadow copy space (50MB). Also, the imaging works on C: alone when the 2nd drive is disconnected.

whs · Jan 7, 2011

sygnus, I was not aware of the ATI2010 problem. Did that actually happen to you? Have you tried with a 1024 alignment? I never had this happen on any of my 4 SSDs and I have done quite a few restores. But I do not have your hardware setup and I use free Macrium for my imaging.

There is a Paragon Alignment tool which supposedly does not alter the data on the disk with which you can realign the SSD any time. But as usual for all good things, they want some money ($30).

As to imaging alternatives, I obviously like Macrium, but I think Paragon is pretty good too. I only experimented with it (they once gave me a trial license to test), but it looked and felt quite nice.

Cato · Jan 7, 2011

mjf said:
Cato said:

I had the same problem when I first got Windows 7 over a year ago. Instead of trying to find out "why" I just went to a third party backup. I had forgot about this problem until I saw your post and now I'm wondering if the following is something that will help:

Solving Windows Image Backup problems | Windows 7 News

In my case it was trying to backup a partition on my second hard drive, the same as yours is doing. I wish I had checked further into then, but I was more interested in getting a backup and learning W7. Would be good to know if this works.

Click to expand...

It's a good idea except he doesn't have a separate 100MB system reserved which can run out of shadow copy space (50MB). Also, the imaging works on C: alone when the 2nd drive is disconnected.

The fact that he could disconnect the second drive and still boot caused me to be skeptical. As far as the SSD, I know nothing about them, and it's the next thing I'm going to take an interest in.

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

mjf said:
Cato said:

I had the same problem when I first got Windows 7 over a year ago. Instead of trying to find out "why" I just went to a third party backup. I had forgot about this problem until I saw your post and now I'm wondering if the following is something that will help:

Solving Windows Image Backup problems | Windows 7 News

In my case it was trying to backup a partition on my second hard drive, the same as yours is doing. I wish I had checked further into then, but I was more interested in getting a backup and learning W7. Would be good to know if this works.

Click to expand...

It's a good idea except he doesn't have a separate 100MB system reserved which can run out of shadow copy space (50MB). Also, the imaging works on C: alone when the 2nd drive is disconnected.

Exactly.

Cato said:
The fact that he could disconnect the second drive and still boot caused me to be skeptical. As far as the SSD, I know nothing about them, and it's the next thing I'm going to take an interest in.

Why is that? This just says all the files needed to boot the system is on C drive.

whs said:
sygnus, I was not aware of the ATI2010 problem. Did that actually happen to you? Have you tried with a 1024 alignment? I never had this happen on any of my 4 SSDs and I have done quite a few restores.

No I haven't, but if Acronis themselves says it doesn’t work, that's good enough for me. However I am aware that this is a money hungry company so...., and they do state that ATI2011 "has full SSD support" so it may be a way of enticing you to upgrade to 2011.

And are you sure your copy of ATI2010 restores it's images aligned on SSD drives?

Anyway I may upgrade to 2011 anyway being that I got 2010 dirt cheap ($19.99)

And thanks for all the info and suggestions guys

whs · Jan 7, 2011

I am sure all my drives are aligned. It is easy to check - even wrote a tutorial about it: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/113967-ssd-alignment.html?ltr=S

sygnus21 · Jan 7, 2011

Yeah I saw that tutorial, even used it to post my diskpart info. Though it tells you how to align the SSD drive I saw noting there stating an image created by ATI would be aligned correctly during a restore. Sorry.

Cato · Jan 8, 2011

sygnus21 said:
mjf said:

Cato said:

I had the same problem when I first got Windows 7 over a year ago. Instead of trying to find out "why" I just went to a third party backup. I had forgot about this problem until I saw your post and now I'm wondering if the following is something that will help:

Solving Windows Image Backup problems | Windows 7 News

In my case it was trying to backup a partition on my second hard drive, the same as yours is doing. I wish I had checked further into then, but I was more interested in getting a backup and learning W7. Would be good to know if this works.

Click to expand...

It's a good idea except he doesn't have a separate 100MB system reserved which can run out of shadow copy space (50MB). Also, the imaging works on C: alone when the 2nd drive is disconnected.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

Cato said:

The fact that he could disconnect the second drive and still boot caused me to be skeptical. As far as the SSD, I know nothing about them, and it's the next thing I'm going to take an interest in.

Click to expand...

Why is that? This just says all the files needed to boot the system is on C drive.

whs said:

sygnus, I was not aware of the ATI2010 problem. Did that actually happen to you? Have you tried with a 1024 alignment? I never had this happen on any of my 4 SSDs and I have done quite a few restores.

Click to expand...

No I haven't, but if Acronis themselves says it doesn’t work, that's good enough for me. However I am aware that this is a money hungry company so...., and they do state that ATI2011 "has full SSD support" so it may be a way of enticing you to upgrade to 2011.

And are you sure your copy of ATI2010 restores it's images aligned on SSD drives?

Anyway I may upgrade to 2011 anyway being that I got 2010 dirt cheap ($19.99)

And thanks for all the info and suggestions guys

What I meant by that statement was I was skeptical that the website I posted would solve your problem. Just thought there might be a chance you could glean something from it.

whs · Jan 8, 2011

sygnus21 said:
Yeah I saw that tutorial, even used it to post my diskpart info. Though it tells you how to align the SSD drive I saw noting there stating an image created by ATI would be aligned correctly during a restore. Sorry.

That was not my point. I was just answering your question regarding the alignment of my SSDs - at least that is how I thought to have understood it.

sygnus21 · Jan 8, 2011

Cato said:
What I meant by that statement was I was skeptical that the website I posted would solve your problem. Just thought there might be a chance you could glean something from it.

Actually I thought it was pretty good info, and though I'm not using the suggested fix, I can see where it makes sense. It also explains my issue, and showed me that the program is buggy. So it was helpful

whs said:
sygnus21 said:

Yeah I saw that tutorial, even used it to post my diskpart info. Though it tells you how to align the SSD drive I saw noting there stating an image created by ATI would be aligned correctly during a restore. Sorry.

Click to expand...

That was not my point. I was just answering your question regarding the alignment of my SSDs - at least that is how I thought to have understood it.

I think we had a miscommunication issue here

I was specifically asking that if I used ATI2010, would my restored image be aligned.... without having to use diskpart.

Acronis says no on 2010, yes on 2011. You said....

whs said:
sygnus, I was not aware of the ATI2010 problem. Did that actually happen to you? Have you tried with a 1024 alignment? I never had this happen on any of my 4 SSDs and I have done quite a few restores. But I do not have your hardware setup and I use free Macrium for my imaging.

So my question to that statement was were you sure your drives were properly aligned with a ATI2010 restored image before having to use diskpart?

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Thanks

whs · Jan 8, 2011

The ATI2010 alignment question I cannot answer because I don't know - sorry.

Issue with Windows Backup creating System Image

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