Are Anti-Viruses A Total Waste Of Time?

[BomberAF]

I have always been an advocate of not only using anti viruses but paid for anti viruses. For many years i have spent my hard earned cash paying for an AV so I don't get any nasty software on my computer that will cause my machine to not work correctly or steal my money.

As of today I have decided to remove my paid for Kaspersky before the subscription is up and not even replace it with a free one such as MS security Essentials. The reason I have decided to take this action, is because the only piece of software that has caused me any real problems with my computer performance, or cost me money is my AV.

I have had periods before where I have used a free AV such as MS Essentials, and I have found no difference what so ever in the rate at which I get or don't get infected. I have also noticed that the only software that ever has any affect on performance is the AV. I have therefore come to realize that the AV itself is the virus that is either costing me money, slowing my machine down or doing both.

What are your opinions on the matter, do you share my opinion that ALL AV's are a waste of time, resources and money?

 

[derekimo]

My thoughts would be the same as for imaging/ backups, you may never need them but they will save you big time when you do.

So yeah, I use MSE, MBAM manual scans, Macrium for imaging, all just in case I do need them.

 

[Kari]

I assume you want honest opinions?

Using a network connected Windows PC today without any AV protection is in my opinion just plain stupid. It's like driving on these German no speed limit Autobahns 200 kmph without wearing a seatbelt with worn out tires on a rainy day; you trust your driving skills and believe nothing will happen but the building elements of a catastrophe are there.

I agree with you on one point. I really do not see no excuse to pay for an AV suite. The free alternatives today like my favorite MSE are certainly enough for normal computer and online usage.

Kari

 

[z3r010]

 

[BomberAF]

I assume you want honest opinions?

Using a network connected Windows PC today without any AV protection is in my opinion just plain stupid. It's like driving on these German no speed limit Autobahns 200 kmph without wearing a seatbelt with worn out tires on a rainy day; you trust your driving skills and believe nothing will happen but the building elements of a catastrophe are there.

I agree with you on one point. I really do not see no excuse to pay for an AV suite. The free alternatives today like my favorite MSE are certainly enough for normal computer and online usage.

Kari

The only network I am on is my home network.

 

[BomberAF]

Ditto to me or directly above?

 

[Kari]

I assume you want honest opinions?

Using a network connected Windows PC today without any AV protection is in my opinion just plain stupid. It's like driving on these German no speed limit Autobahns 200 kmph without wearing a seatbelt with worn out tires on a rainy day; you trust your driving skills and believe nothing will happen but the building elements of a catastrophe are there.

I agree with you on one point. I really do not see no excuse to pay for an AV suite. The free alternatives today like my favorite MSE are certainly enough for normal computer and online usage.

Kari

The only network I am on is my home network.

You are connected to the "mother of all networks", the Internet through your home network.

If you completely stop using Internet and never again insert an external drive or stick or CD/DVD with data (documents, music, video etc.) from your friends or colleagues or whoever, you are good to go without AV.

 

[Gary]

I use Avast Internet Security. IMHO, using MSE is like having the fox guard the hen house.

 

[BomberAF]

I assume you want honest opinions?

Using a network connected Windows PC today without any AV protection is in my opinion just plain stupid. It's like driving on these German no speed limit Autobahns 200 kmph without wearing a seatbelt with worn out tires on a rainy day; you trust your driving skills and believe nothing will happen but the building elements of a catastrophe are there.

I agree with you on one point. I really do not see no excuse to pay for an AV suite. The free alternatives today like my favorite MSE are certainly enough for normal computer and online usage.

Kari

The only network I am on is my home network.

You are connected to the "mother of all networks", the Internet through your home network.

If you completely stop using Internet and never again insert an external drive or stick or CD/DVD with data (documents, music, video etc.) from your friends or colleagues or whoever, you are good to go without AV.

The point I am making is when I have been infected while using an AV the AV itself has made it difficult to remove threat as they generally need to be uninstalled. So for the whole time I never have a virus I am having to put up with an AV that is costing me money and slowing my machine down.

 

[z3r010]

Ditto to me or directly above?

Kari's post above mine.

 

[UsernameIssues]

...I have had periods before where I have used a free AV such as MS Essentials, and I have found no difference what so ever in the rate at which I get or don't get infected. I have also noticed that the only software that ever has any affect on performance is the AV......

I would be interested in the performace issues that you noticed while using MSE. If you set it to use only 10% of the CPU during scans, do you still notice MSE?

AV software can only find malware that it knows about or it can stop some malware based on how it is acting (heuristics). MSE's heuristics are poor, IMO; but I still suggest MSE because it gets along with other software so well.

I maintain that one cannot know if a computer is free from infections no matter if AV software is used or not.

I know several people that do not use any AV tools and they seem not to get infected.. but like I said above, one can never know for sure. But you already said that using an AV tool makes "no difference what so ever in the rate at which I get or don't get infected" - so I'll assume that you have been infected from time to time. If that is the case, then I suggest that you learn how to create a Virtual Machine using the free tool name VirtualBox and get a free Operating System like Ubuntu with a W7 theme and do your surfing from there.

 

[DavidE]

@BomberAF
How often does your PC get infected?
Maybe consider different surfing / usage habits?
If you get re-curing malware, where is it coming from...?

 

[BomberAF]

@BomberAF
How often does your PC get infected?
Maybe consider different surfing / usage habits?
If you get re-curing malware, where is it coming from...?

Never, less than once ever 2 years and then it is my fault.

 

[Kari]

The point I am making is when I have been infected while using an AV the AV itself has made it difficult to remove threat as they generally need to be uninstalled. So for the whole time I never have a virus I am having to put up with an AV that is costing me money and slowing my machine down.

About paying for an AV protection I already told what I think. No need, the free alternatives work OK.

That being said, I apologize for using a metaphor again but as almost all children in developed world and luckily ever increasing also in third world are vaccinated against polio but almost nobody comes ill with polio anymore, would you select not giving your kids the vaccine because you or someone you know have never had polio?

The function of an AV program is not to help to get rid of malware after your PC has become infected. The main function is to find the possible threats before they can infect your system.

We have fundamental difference here in our opinions. I would never leave my computer unprotected as I would never drive 200 kmph without seat belts or deny my kid a vaccination. They are all about the same thing: not expecting any problems but be prepared if something unexpected happens.

 

[BomberAF]

The point I am making is when I have been infected while using an AV the AV itself has made it difficult to remove threat as they generally need to be uninstalled. So for the whole time I never have a virus I am having to put up with an AV that is costing me money and slowing my machine down.

About paying for an AV protection I already told what I think. No need, the free alternatives work OK.

That being said, I apologize for using a metaphor again but as almost all children in developed world and luckily ever increasing also in third world are vaccinated against polio but almost nobody comes ill with polio anymore, would you select not giving your kids the vaccine because you or someone you know have never had polio?

The function of an AV program is not to help to get rid of malware after your PC has become infected. The main function is to find the possible threats before they can infect your system.

We have fundamental difference here in our opinions. I would never leave my computer unprotected as I would never drive 200 kmph without seat belts or deny my kid a vaccination. They are all about the same thing: not expecting any problems but be prepared if something unexpected happens.

Point I was making is that when I have got infected an AV hasn't worked and has got in the way of removing infection.

 

[UsernameIssues]

I assume you want honest opinions?...

Can the OP get honest opinions here (or in most any other forum) for both sides of this discussion? It would be reputation suicide for a forum member to say "Sure, it is okay to be online without an AV tool installed."

I understand the OP's logic... but I still suggest that the OP use MSE.

I have no choice but to put up with the performance hit of Symantec's AV tool since this computer is owned by my employer... and yet I've only had false positives to deal with from that AV tool. As far as I know, this computer has not been infected and the AV tool has never flagged any real malware. (I do not recall Symantec ever flagging real malware in the 10+ years that I've used it.) So having Symantec installed is a real negative for me. Symantec has deleted some AutoIt scripts that I wrote/compiled and it continues to flag/delete the SciTE editor if I forget to exclude it. :-(

This OP does not use any AV tool and yet I do not see anyone refuting his last post. I've seen one video of a true drive-by infection, but it were not in the wild, it required javascript to be enabled and UAC could have stopped it.

 

[Kari]

Can the OP get honest opinions here (or in most any other forum) for both sides of this discussion? It would be reputation suicide for a forum member to say "Sure, it is okay to be online without an AV tool installed."

Yes, he can. I can for instance see no harm done to OP's own reputation here although he quite clearly states he don't want to use AV and sees no point in using them.

It is an opinion which he as everyone else is entitled to have.

 

[gied]

If the browser would be properly sandboxed, no Java / Flash / Adobe PDF installed, then one would be quite ok without antivirus. The problem is this is never the case... AV gives the first warnings in cases of less visible parasites that do not use that much of resources or use them intelligently : banker trojans, idle miners, some of spam bots.

 

[Gary]

I have a sandbox in AIS, but I do not go to or visit sites that would require using it. I would never advocate not using an AV, many are free so why take a chance??

 

[UsernameIssues]

I have a sandbox in AIS, but I do not go to or visit sites that would require using it....

So, you don't visit websites run by the U.S. government?
U.S. Labor Dept. Website Hacked, Serves Malware - Security -

How about those run by the BBC, CNN, Reuters....?

...why take a chance??

The OP answered that by stating AV tools slow down the computer. And that AV tools [sometimes] have to be uninstalled when removing infections that got past them. Most members here have suggested that people uninstall apps that they don't use - especially if the app runs all of the time. If I see no infections being prevented over a ten year period, but I repeatedly have to deal with false positives - why would I want an AV tool installed?

I hope that you can tell that I'm just presenting the other side. I still suggest that people use AV tools and put up with the drawbacks of doing so.

Has AVAST stopped any infections for you lately?