Audio problem in W7 (no sound)

[Night Hawk]

When you look at any circuit board such as the main board itself noting the underside you will see the numerous solder points where leads for the various components are soldered to the traceways. They appear as small pinpoints of solder.

A cold solder point is where the sodering job failed or where the solder broke and the tip of the lead will move slightly upward through the small hole in the board itself. As the broken solder lightly touches the surface the electrical current we call the signal will arc. On a high voltage system you would see sparks when that happens.

Ever jump start an auto? When touching the grips to the terminal poles on the battery sparks may fly. On a low voltage audio circuit strange poping, humming, buzzing sounds would be the thing you would hear there.

Likewise when looking at where the contact leads go through the preformed hole on a main board from the rear jacks those will be small solder points too. When you mentioned pressing down and suddenly hearing sound the movement of a possibly broken solder point made contact likely as soon as you lifted your fingers away the audio lead sprung back enough.

The odd sounds and low volume may have causeanother as well if the audio chip on the board has failed. Since the problem is effecting both XP and 7 you now have to consider it a hardware fault of some type. Due to the arcing if something was bumping against a ground source the audio chip may have been damaged from that or have simply been slightly defective to start with now revealing itself.

One reason for suggesting a separate sound card would be to see the onboard disabled and then find out if the audio is heard normally through the tv or speaker set in use. Since you patched directly to the tv you should then hear the normal output.

For examination of the leads on the board on the other hand that would require removing the board and a very close examination of the area where the contact points are grouped since it would take that to see only the slightest lift up of the short leads soldered there.

As you can see it does get quite involved in order to trace each possible cause. You could end up taking the board out entirely to perform a close examination only to learn it was the audio chip or problem with the audio jack itself needing replacement.

If you were formally trained in electronics I could advise scoping the board or performing a continuity test on each lead for tracing purposes. But you would need to remove the board entirely for continuity testing each solder point if the case blocks access to the underside of the board itself using a multimeter. A 1/8" miniplug would be plugged into each jack with a short length of wire with the ends exposed for keeping one tip from the meter held against each as you go along while touching the other lead lightly on each solder point until hearing a long beep sound from the meter.

You would however might need the schematic for the board to know which wire went to which solder point on the board since those are all covered over with the silver colored enclosures typically seen.

To keep this from becoming a separate course in length I would simply advise at this point going with a separate sound card assuming the problem is on the board. The X vanishing does show that 7 as well as XP was detecting the audio and loading the drivers as it should but the problem with something hardware related is preventing the normal audio you expect.

If you unplug the audio cord going to the tv and plug in a speaker set which suddenly works well then you would know the problem was external. Your description however tends to suggest a board or contact in the audio jack type of problem.

If a separate speaker set on the other hand hears normal sound when using the onboard then the output signal would be found incompatible with the input on the tv there. This would be the quick test to see if the problem is localized to the board that can be looked at before simply electing to go for a separate card.

 

[MaoR]

Ok, I understood better this time.

So you think that I caused a cold solder when I plugged the audio wire to the PC?
But a cold solder sounds like somthing was pulled and the solder went a bit trough the hole, nothing felt to me like it was hard to take out the wire.

I haven't told yet how I plugged my PC to the TV.
I took my camera's "TV out cable" and an single extension cable which was connected to the green plug to my PC.. Then I took the "TV out cable" and plugged it to the extension cable, and plugged the red and white cables on the other side to the TV.

When I switched to the right "Input" on my TV I could hear the sound that came from my TV.

Then I unplugged all the wires, and saw that my PC went a bit crazy, my Internet browser got stuck, the task bar bellow was "unclickuble" for a few minutes, when I could click it I restarted my PC, and then I saw the red "X".

How much will a new sound card cost me? (not the best one, but not the worst one)
Will it produce a better quallity of sound than my motherboards did?
I have now 2.1, mabey in the future I will buy 5.1, but I guess thats the max, I wont buy a 7.1.

Thank you for the long comment.

 

[Night Hawk]

No the cold solder point would have likely been a weakness revealed in the original soldering itself. Often one will lift up slighty when not adhering to the surface being a broken contact with no connectivity while others will be where you only see limited current/signal going through.

One question on the audio cable for your camera would be is that stereo two channel or did you feed a monaural cable into a two channel stereo cord by chance? Two channels into a monaural cable and then back into two channels can be a problem especially if the wiring is different where a lead ended up going to ground somehow due to being mismatched. That would also cause odd sounds.

Besides odd sounds for sure if a lead went to ground by using the incorrect cable combo that would also effect things on the pc side as well.

When working with connections the mistake you made for the pc going haywire was having it powered up at the time. That's easy to explain where you saw the results immediately. The red X the next day is simply due to the external connection to the tv no longer being present once you have everything unplugged.

One important thing to note here however is that the only things you can plug or unplug on pcs while powered up as a rule is on the usb bus since everything else is rather sensitive. This is one reason for the safety remove devices icon in the system tray where Windows is told to eject or disconnect itself from any drive or device being unplugged.

When going to work with any live connections for video or sound on a system always work with it off and another good idea is to the turn the breaker switch off as well or unplug the ac cord if one isn't present to avoid an accidental power up when going to plug or unplug things. That will prevent any possible damages to anything onboard or a separate card installed or even a monitor.

As for sound cards shopping now for a decent model card is rather easy during the summer clearances and now starting to see the back to school specials advertised by different vendors. The make and model card can determine if that will be better then what you have for onboard there. Even with a card that has 7.1 as just all do you simply use the first green or blue audio jack or one designated front pair on them. The other one or more jacks cover the rear channels and center mix speakers.

 

[MaoR]

I dont know.. I connected like that:
first of all this cable went to the green plug on my PC

then I plugged this cable to the extension (just not a nokia one, I couldn't find a better picture)

and I plugged the red and white wires to my TV (of cousres red went to the red plug and white to the white plug)

So why did, the cold solder happend just now? I have this motherboard for 2 years..

And is there something I can do? or should I just buy a new sound card?

Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

Now that i have seen the way those cables look I can see one possible problem you may have run right into there! The standard 1/8" miniplug or 3.5mm to RCA phono works coming from the output jack on the board there. The second cable if identical with the yellow video plug becomes a problem since the small mini plug is 3 channel plugging into a two channel cable.

This could very well explain some of the odd sounds and eventually even caused damage to the audio chip where now you only slightly hear anything. If the camcorder cable provided a separate plug for video keeping that isolated from the two audio channels you wouldn't have a problem there.

Unfortunately your initial description would have been better showing these earlier since I have to suspect that you may have damaged the audio chip using this combination if the tip of the camcorder's cable is a 3 channel. That may meshed two channels together in the process since the jacks on the board and on a separate card installed are two channel.

The now limited volume does seem to suggest that's what happened and when pressing on the inside it was more likely the electrical field effect rather then a bad solder point. Since the two cables are not intended to be used together one of the two outputs was likely lead partially to ground even by proximatety causing the chip itself to heat up on the board leading to that giving out on you!

Before getting buying a new card start off by losing that camcorder cable if my suspicions are correct and buy another even from Radio Shack intended for audio only. That would only see the two white and red RCA phono plugs at the tv end converting over to the 1/8" or 3.5mm plug to meet up with the first cable.

That would provide the extra length needed when extending the cord as well as insure the correct type of cable was plugged into the first to avoid harm to the new card it appears you will now need. Unfortunately it looks too much this is what happened to you there.

 

[MaoR]

Could I damage something else, and not only the sound card?
Are you sure it's totally damaged? because when I plugged the cord to the TV for that first time, I heared the sound from the PC coming from the TV speakers.

Before getting buying a new card start off by losing that camcorder cable if my suspicions are correct

You mean I should throw that camcorder's cable? or is it just a way of speech?
Can it be that the cable was damaged and will cause my camera to damage too?

Unfortunately your initial description would have been better showing these earlier

I did.. I said a camera "TV out" cable.

I didn't plug the yellow one, just the red and white.. I didn't think it could cause damage

Since the two cables are not intended to be used together one of the two outputs was likely lead partially to ground even by proximatety causing the chip itself to heat up on the board leading to that giving out on you!

You mean that if the yellow one, touched a grounding source, it made my chip heat up?
I think that the yellow one, touched the TV shelf for a few seconds, but I am not sure..

Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

What I was advising was simply packing the cable for the camcorder away and going for something else like a 6FT 3.5mm Mini Plug to RCA Hook Computer To Stereo 6 FT Only $.82 which is actually a good price compared to any retail store's price at $5 or more!

That might even be long enough there to elimiate the need for the second extension cable you are using as well. This is the correct type for patching audio over from a pc to tv seen there. Less breaks between provides less chance of IF or other outside static noises being picked up.

When initially plugging the two cables in you would hear sound normally since the onboard was working up until that point. By your description of what happened afterwards it would suggest something caused the audio chip itself to go on you.

If you haven't tried plugging a speaker set directly into the rear audio jacks on the board without the two cables present that would be the first step to find out the good or what now appears to be "bad news". The efforts you have made to patch the audio into the tv suggest you may not have a set onhand to start with in order to try that out. Process of elimination would be the idea.

Typically a fast plug in and hearing normal wouldn't cook a chip right off unless there was a direct short to ground of some type. If the chip was already a bit after the 2yrs. of use it likely wouldn't have taken much of a load to cause it to fail which would have been from multiple causes in that case.

There's no way to be 100% sure on anything not having the system present here to look over and test. This is where you have to play the role of the "seeing eye dog" in that sense.

As for the yellow RCA plug I already assumed that you had left that unplugged. But it's still intended for use with the camcorder not a patch from a pc to tv by way of the two front speaker or even a center mix single channel jack on the board. The attached photo is the two channel to two channel type best for this while the one for the camera is a 3 channel for patching 3 outputs.

 

[MaoR]

Can it be that the cable was damaged and will cause my camera to damage too?
Could I damage something else, and not only the sound card?

What am I supposed to do now? nothing else than buying a new sound card?
Sould I go to a computer repaire store, or is it a waste of money and I better buy a new sound card?

Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

If you did have any problems when previously using the cable with the camcorder I don't see why you would now. The output from the onboard wouldn't be enough to hurt the cable. On the other hand a problem cable or problem with using the wrong type would be far more likely to hurt the onboard chip.

Have you tried plugging in any speaker set by itself to see if you hear a normal output from the board? If you don't have a set you could ask to borrow one from a friend for a quick test. That would reveal if the normal output is still seen or the onboard is now simply toast.

This will either confirm or rule out any problem with the onboard itself if normal sound is then heard. Remember the idea is to find where the problem actually is although it is pointing towards the onboard let's not totally rule out the camcorder cable as a problem source yet.

If and when you can confirm that the onboard sound is gone then you would need to shop for a suitable expansion card. Depending how much you would or can plan to spend the best move on the board would be shipping to the manufacturer unless this is on a prebuild not a custom case for an authorized repair at the shop's rate for service and repair charges.

The best two items that will save on costs however would be a cable like the one seen at Amazon and planning on a new card which you could still use later when eventually upgrading into either new case or updating the present. Then you would be working with a new board keeping the onboard as a backup sound source.

First you need to confirm the onboard is lost however while a better cable obviously is a low cost option if the audio should be found good by plugging in a speaker set or even head set.

 

[MaoR]

I tried already my headphones before, it didn't work.. and my speakers were always plugged in so ofcourse I tried to hear with them.

How the camcorder cord can be the problem if its not connected? my PC is no longer connected to my TV.

I dont think I will send my board to the manufacture, wouldn't it be better to buy a new sound card?

So... I didn't really see you answered my question. Could I damage something else exept the sound card?

I bought a small USB external sound card from eBay for a 1$ for now.. I hope it will work.

Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

One main problem explaining the initial odd sounds heard through the speakers would be from handling the cord you used and going to unplug that from the tv end while still being "live". Your system was powered up at the time and if you simply touched the tip and sheild on one of the two red or white plugs that would have seen a feedback loop heard through the speakes most likely.

The golden safety rule when plugging and unplugging these types of connections is to have everything turned off. That will prevent any possible damage to hardwares. I doubt that alone caused the audio chip to go unless that was already about to fail and that little bit more was all it took. Or you unknowingly left the tv end resting on some conductive surface where one of the tips made contact?

Nothing is 100% for certain however since you are the only one that was present when all this happened. Just remember to take the necessary precautions. That will be the best preventative measure in itself to avoid any other possible damages.

Hopefully the usb sound card will work out for you there. On occasions you can find some good deals pricewise at EBay on new items.

(I ran across a board tester for about the same price which pointed out the bios chip on the board in the last case as I had suspected being another problem. Replacement bios found for good price there too!)

 

[MaoR]

Could I damage something else exept the sound card?

I didn't see you answered it, mabey I am wrong.

One main problem explaining the initial odd sounds heard through the speakers would be from handling the cord you used and going to unplug that from the tv end while still being "live".

But my speakers wern't connected when the cord was.. or it doeasn't matter?

Or you unknowingly left the tv end resting on some conductive surface where one of the tips made contact?

The tv is resting on a wooden shelf, but I think the yellow tip from the RCA cable touched it for a couple of seconds, not sure about it..

(I ran across a board tester for about the same price which pointed out the bios chip on the board in the last case as I had suspected being another problem. Replacement bios found for good price there too!)

I searched for it on eBay now, but, what does it do?
Can it help me?
What are those digits on the board? (the 2 or 4 digits board).



And I have another question.. it's not relaited to this topic.
I burned some stuff on a DVD disc, and I left it for a very very long time on some shelf.
Yesturday I picked it up from there, and I saw a lot of dust on it.
So, my answer is.. Could the dust damage the disc?
Because as I know, dust can be electromagnetical (at a low level ofcourse).
Sould I be worried? or is the protective layer of the DVD disc is enough to prvent this situation?
I entered the disc after cleaning it carfuly and I didn't see any damage, but still.. mabey it's something I didnt notice.


Thank you!

 

[Night Hawk]

As far as damaging anything other then the audio chip that low current certainly wouldn't toast the cable itself by any means. When pressing down too hard on any new card being installed damaging the slot would be a possible concern simply from rough handling.

There are actually endless ways of causing different types of damages while that would take intent like ocing hardwares and never checking temps. As for simply patching cords into a sound card you wouldn't cook a cpu for example.

Running into a bad cable, connector, or adapter that reversed lead with ground would of course short things to ground could damage other things but by factory defect rather then anything you did. Even that would still kind of rare while defects do get out on occasion.

Your mention of problems when first going to unplug the cable from the tv and later mention of having speakers plugged in was why I had to wonder if you had both plugged in at the same time using different jacks like rear channel for the tv keeping the main speakers on the front jack.

Havimg more then just the speakers alone plugged in shouldn't be a problem if everything is in working order. You would simply be splitting up the output signal itself between two different amp/speaker sources. One question for you would be are you patching the tv as a second monitor or simply running audio alone through it?

As far a board tester I found two and ended ordering both one for under $5 from the same source. Unfortunately the second one cannot be plugged into a pci slot while being a 4 digit model. The first that can only had a 2 digit not 4 digit display like it was picrured! But it did point out the 2 digit code to look up pointing right at the problem suspected.

With those you must have and I emphasize "must have" the guide in a small booklet included with the tester or download it from a link provided in order to find out what the code displayed means. They have testers then go up over 4 digit displays where you would a tech to decipher the readout on those. Much more advanced!

As far as a dusty disk not being moved around where any bit of dirt got caught under it and saw scratches made you simply wipe it off with a soft cloth. The under side is the actual delicate part if not a dual sided dvd. Your fingers should only touch the very edges.

Note there are cd/dvd repair/cleaning kits found in most retail stores(Staples, Walmart, OfficeMax, etc.) that have a disk inside the case where you press any disk against the surface lightly and turn it to smooth out minor not deep scratches. Having a lens cleaning disk onhand always helps as well as how you store disks to start with.

(Don't worry. I have a few here at times actually one on top of the other on a soft coffee mug type place mat and never damage those!)

 

[MaoR]

One question for you would be are you patching the tv as a second monitor or simply running audio alone through it?

I use it as a pc monitor and as a simple tv screen.

When I plugged the sound cord, the speakers wern't plugged, after unplugging I plugged the speakers back. and both were connected to the rear jacks (not at the same time)

The pc is connected with a DVI-to-HDMI cable, and I heared that DVI wont produce sound unless you connect something (I dont remember what exactlly, I think the video card) with a cable named SPDIF or something like that, to the motherboard. Have you heared about something like that?
Mabey I can do that, and if the sound works from my tv speakers, I will know that the sound card is good, but the plugges are damaged.



The DVDs were with the sensitive side up
I hope I didn't damage them.
I wipped them with a soft cloth, like a glasses cleaning cloth, and a bit of a soft tishio paper.

Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

Generally the only damages seen with any disk is simply from handling. If you drop one on the floor surprizingly most of the time they won't break but roll a bit while stacking them together and bumping the stack will be more apt to see them scratched up.

As far as patching from the video card out most of the newer model mid to high card will typically see the output available especially those that support dual monitors seeing the twin HD connectors. Or they may simply have the s-video or audio only depending on the specific model.

Here for the main system I've always run a good expansion card leaving the onboard unused unless the card quit for some reason. The new build I got up and running to post this however is a micro atx case just having seen 7 Home Premium 64bit go on that has the video card's hsf covering one of the two pci slots and a modem that go into the other leaving one PCIe 1x slot on the opposite side for a card there.

That option probably won't be used since this was a basic build for someone who doesn't game or even spend much time on at all. Guess who has to maintain as well?

Just remember to look into things a little more before running into these types of problems however. It's always better to ask first if unsure rather then run into mishaps from having not asked any!

 

[MaoR]

Yeah I know it's better to ask, and actually I always do.. But for some reason I was sure nothing will happen..

As far as patching from the video card out most of the newer model mid to high card will typically see the output available especially those that support dual monitors seeing the twin HD connectors. Or they may simply have the s-video or audio only depending on the specific model.

umm.. I didn't understand on what question this answers. About the SPDIF cable I was talking about?
Can you please explane it better to me?

Here for the main system I've always run a good expansion card leaving the onboard unused unless the card quit for some reason. The new build I got up and running to post this however is a micro atx case just having seen 7 Home Premium 64bit go on that has the video card's hsf covering one of the two pci slots and a modem that go into the other leaving one PCIe 1x slot on the opposite side for a card there.

Again I didn't understand.
Are you talking about the graphic card? or the sound card?



Well, today a friend called, and told me he has a brand new, never used, sound card.
I think I know how to connect it, but I better ask before doing so.
Idd be more than happy if you could explaine to me how to connect it properly.
Do I need a driver cd for the sound card? He told me I wont need it, but Ill ask to be sure

For mabey make it easier for you to explain, my motherboard is : Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R ,rev 1.0 .

And I attached some pictures of the new sound card.

Please, if you could write clear but short instructions that would be great
My english is not that good, and sometimes I am having a trouble understanding complex sentences.

Thank you very much !

 

[Night Hawk]

With one look at the card the green jack is the front pair, orange for rear and black for center mix. The blue is most like the line-in while the pink is for mic. Now you need to know the make and model card you have there in order to download the latest updates for it. At make and model series will help.

Yes you will need device drivers in order to run it while the update option in Windows will often list the latest drivers found under "optional for softwares and hardwares". At least you will get sound back anyways once those are on. Hopefully you can also find the application part for the speaker settings, mixer, and other settings as well.

As for patching out from video cards some see video and audio on one type of plug called s-video. S-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Others will provide a digital audio output right from that type of expansion card. Video cards, sound cards, tv tuner cards, network adapter cards, pci modem cards all fall under the expansion card catagory being a separate card you add onto a system rather then using what is already present onboard.

At least you now have something to work with as long as it is a working card and you find the updates you need for it. The System Info for Windows(SIW) tool can often be a help as far as manufacturer's information while your friend should know the make and model. SIW | System Information for Windows by Gabriel Topala

 

[MaoR]

Is this card good?
You didn't answer, how do I connect it and work it?
I dont know the model, will Everest show me after I will plug the card?

About the S-video, you mean I should connect my pc and tv with it? but I have already DVI to HDMI, it's the optimal cable for this.

Please help me connect the card
I read somewhere that I will need to desable the old sound chip from the BIOS, is that true?


Thank you.

 

[Night Hawk]

I wouldn't have any idea on whether the card is good or bad since you will first need to find out the make and model or at least model series to download drivers/software for it once installed in the case. That's when you can use a program like SIW(free download) or another system information utility to see what that shows.

As for as s-video I was simply explaining some make and model video cards will have that option. Camcorders older models now will also see that type of composite audio/video cable you plug into a tv with the s-video jack seen as an auxillery input.

Once you install the card and power up the first step is to press the key assigned for entering the bios setup program for the main board. Review the instructions and illustrations if any for this in the user manual for that make and model board to get to know where things are there.

By default the onboard sound option is typically found in the onboard hardwares section depending on the way things are arranged and named according what bios is used. That could Award, Phoenix, AMI, or another where the manual is the first place to review the section there.

Once you know the audio chip like Realtek or whatever is used and find it you simply press enter when highlighted to switch that from enabled to disabled then use the exit and save option if the F10 doesn't see the change saved for you. This will then see the system restart as well as Windows looking for device drivers.

 

[MaoR]

I just plugged the sound card to the PCI slot and downloaded drivers, and the sound works!
I think the sound quallity is even better then before XD
The full name of the sound card is "C-Media CMI8738-LX".

I didn't do anything in the BIOS menu, I couldn't find something related to audio :S
Is it crutial to disable the old sound chip?

Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate that


Edit:
Can I connect an SPDIF cord from my graphic card to the sound card?
I want my DVI to produce sound.
My graphic card is: BFG NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS OC2 512 MB
Where can I buy a cheap and good cord?
Thanks.