Black Screen

[johnfull]

I've had similar experiences with three different W7 machines now.
An update from Microsoft Security Essentials causes the system to fail.
The first resolved with the Safe Mode and a System Restore, though it took
several tries. This was on a brand new (six months) machine.

The second occurred remotely on a machine that I maintain for my parents.
Without access to the machine, we let it sit for several hours and it sorted itself
out, but without the least indication that it was doing anything at all. That's the
worst part of this new system -- lack of feedback to the user!

The last is on a machine that I maintain for a friend.
We put a W7 patch on Vista about 6 months ago and it's been pretty close to
the normal W7 behavior since. Again, an update for MSE and the thing froze and
had to be hard-booted. On return from hard boot, it gets the 'splash screen' and
then just black with a cursor. This is true of Safe Mode as well, unfortunately, so
that I have no recourse to Restore. I've seen that the F8 key gives some different
options, so I will try that today -- maybe 'repair my computer' or a direct link to
restore without going into the window that won't load.

I think I will uninstall MSE on all three machines and rely strictly on other programs. Microsoft seems to care less than the competition about ruining its own
operating system since they have no one to anwser to. My two cents...

 

[Anak]

Hi! johnfull, welcome to 7F

Have you been back to black screen following Microsoft Security Essentials configuration - Microsoft Answers to see Kosh Vorlon's post in reply to yours?

 

[essenbe]

johnfull, welcome to SF. I.m not sure what your problem could be. I run MSE on 3 machines and have never had a problem. The update to MSE is only updating the security definitions MSE uses to protect your machine. Do you have other AV programs installed on the machines?

 

[johnfull]

Yes, I use Avast! on all three. Have for years and years. I'd rather dump MSE.
I have been reading about lots of people having black screen problems, so your
anecdotal evidence to the contrary is cold comfort. I just hope I can sort out the
latest fiasco...thanks!

 

[johnfull]

This might be helpful -- thanks.



Hi John,

Are you talking about a regular definitions update or are you talking about the upgrade update released very recently - a week or so ago?

First, regarding System Restore in Windows 7. There are several ways to do it and one is by using a disk (if you can't get F8 to work) and that often does the trick - which I believe you can create from one of the machines that's working. See the following articles (you may not need all of them, but I've provided them in case you do):

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/700-system-restore.html

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/668-system-recovery-options.html

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/2083-system-repair-disc-create.html

 

[Anak]

I was not trying to infringe on your credibility. My first impression to your situation was similar to essenbe's.

If you do or ever did have any other AV program installed on your computer (even if you didn't use it), you need to make sure they are all uninstalled and fully removed before you install. To fully remove them, check out this listing of removal toolshttp://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/msestart/thread/407bf6da-c05d-4546-8788-0aa4c25a1f91 or the listing in that article at the bottom under troubleshooting steps (why this link isn't at the top near things to do first where it discusses removing all the prior and current AV programs is beyond me) or, if not on the lists, go to the website of the AV software and get and use the removal tool for that product.

Source: black screen following Microsoft Security Essentials configuration - Microsoft Answers
I only wanted to make sure if you had seen the suggestions in Vorlon's post, but you picked one of the other replies to throw back at me.

I do not know how that post received the green answer check-mark, but I would be offended too.

Now just for a test:
Pick one of your machines and completely uninstall avast, and see how it goes from there. avast! Uninstall Utility

You may even want to try some of Vorlon's suggestions on the settings for MSE, that is your call.


BIG EDIT:

johnfull you evidently changed your reply in regards to my first post!

 

[johnfull]

Can I use the Windows 7 install disc that converted Vista? I installed it about 6 months ago and successfully imported all the personal files. It has been functioning fairly normally as a W7 program ever since. Microsoft Security Essentials has now made the program inoperable beyond the flash screen, even in Safe Mode. Can I re-insert the
W7 install disc and repair the program? I want to completely remove MSE in the process...

 

[johnfull]

Yes, I carelessly read your reply and the other one and made a hasty re-reply.
Vorlon's suggestions contain many nuggets -- I'll have to sort through and find
something that works. Do you know if the Windows 7 installation disc can be used
to access restore functions? I upgraded Vista to W7 about 6 months ago.
This is a clumsy way to dialog, with two different forums and two different methods
of access. I did NOT see Vorlon's reply because that forum sent no notification.
I appreciate your bringing it to my attention...

Do you think that MSE can completely replace Avast?
I have been under the impression that different programs are synergistic.
I use MalwareBytes to scan regularly, too, but it has no real-time function...

 

[essenbe]

Johnfull, cold comfort or not, thousands of members here use MSE without issue. If you installed MSE from the microsoft website, I'm sure you saw the warning to uninstall all other antivirus programs on your machine before installing MSE. Conventional wisdom is and always has been to not use two AV programs at the same time. Software conflicts are much more likely to happen. Anak and Microsoft Answers have given you several suggestions to try and resolve your issues. I suggest you try them and use one AV program.

 

[essenbe]

The paid version of Malwarebytes does have real time protection. Also MSE and Malwarebytes function well together as they are really two different types of programs. I use both on my machines and can say I have never had a virus. I believe many of your issues may be caused by having 2 AV programs. Most likely 2 programs trying to do the same thing can conflict with each other.

 

[johnfull]

You are right to defend your turf.
Do you claim that MSE can replace Avast?
I have run scans with various programs over the years and one will pick up
things that others have missed. This, too, is common wisdom.
I don't recall MSE being marketed as a replacement or a do-all program.
Avast, at the level I use it, is a free program, designed to help keep the
internet safe for everyone -- kind of a socialist perspective.
I prefer their outlook to Microsoft's fortress mentality unless they are less
effective than you, for whatever reason.
Do you make a claim to superiority?
Windows 7 was a great program until it had to be repeatedly modified...


Answered before the second reply came in. This is more of a chat session...

 

[essenbe]

I will tell you my opinion, and that is just what it is, opinion. There is no program paid or free program that can catch everything and anything. If you look at the results from some of the AV testing companies, you will find that the 'best' AV program usually catches 70-75% of the viruses thrown at it. I have no issue with Avast, and it is probably a good program. MSE has never claimed to be a do everything program. It was designed as a free program for people who would not buy an AV program and would therefore have no protection. Yet, I find it to work well and to be light and does not use a lot of system resources. I also use Malwarebytes free edition and do complete scans twice a week. But, to answer your main question, there is no AV program that will catch everything, I don't care how much you pay for it. So, I look for a decent program with real time protection that uses few OS recourses and gets decent results. I supplement that with Malwarebytes by running scans frequently. The most important thing you can do is pay attention to the type of sites you visit and what you download and from where. To me, that is as important as the AV program you use. I can't answer whether MSE is better than Avast. I can only recomend that you pick one or the other and use it with malwarebytes. Personally, The reason I chose MSE is because they designed Windows 7 and therefore should know better than anyone where the weaknesses are. That is the most honest and straight forward answer I know to give.

 

[essenbe]

Also, as for your statement about windows 7 having to be modified. There is no perfect operating system. My first computer was a Commodore64. I have used just about every OS that has come out since with the exception of ME and Vista. You mentioned XP. XP was a good OS and I liked it, but do you remember there was XP, then XP SP1, Then XP SP2, Then XP SP3? Same with Vista and every other OS. With each OS they find issues and vulnarabilities that need fixing and do patches, major patches are Service packs. Windows 7 has gone longer without a service pack than any other OS Microsoft has put out. And yes, sometimes SP's cause issues. But, think of all the hardware configurations out there and all the software configurations out there. There really is no way to design a patch that will work well with all combinations they affect. It's just part of the game and no way to avoid it. But, I can honestly say that Windows 7 is the best and easiest OS I have ever used.

 

[johnfull]

I wholeheartedly agree.
I evangelize W7 to everybody who would listen.
I used XP until W7 came out and I had a go at it on someone else's machine first.
I changed out my friend's Vista system as soon as an upgrade became available.
I love W7 and that's why I hate to see it getting all botched up with all this.
I won't get into the fireman/pyromaniac aspects of cyber bullying and policing.
I just never heard anyone say that Avast and MSE are incompatible before.
Since none catch more than 70%, a couple should be able to work together.
I am careful about sites, too, but there is more and more engineered attacks that
are very tricky. What is the origin of evil? Is there a patch for that? Thanks.

 

[Anak]

Yes, I carelessly read your reply and the other one and made a hasty re-reply.
Vorlon's suggestions contain many nuggets -- I'll have to sort through and find
something that works. Do you know if the Windows 7 installation disc can be used
to access restore functions?

According to this, yes: What are the system recovery options in Windows 7? Microsoft
This is the in-forum tutorial: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/668-system-recovery-options.html

I upgraded Vista to W7 about 6 months ago.
This is a clumsy way to dialog, with two different forums and two different methods
of access. I did NOT see Vorlon's reply because that forum sent no notification.
I appreciate your bringing it to my attention...

Your welcome. Not really that clumsy, I personally would work with both until my situation was resolved.
Out of courtesy both forums deserve closure.

Great discoveries and improvements invariably involve the cooperation of many minds. I may be given credit for having blazed the trail, but when I look at the subsequent developments I feel the credit is due to others rather than to myself.

Alexander Graham Bell; (Born: March 3, 1847 Died: August 2, 1922)

~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~
​

Do you think that MSE can completely replace Avast?

I defer to essenbe's reply above.

I have been under the impression that different programs are synergistic.

Are you referring to MSE and Avast? They should work okay together. But, if they both have real-time protection you have to shut one or the others real-time protection off!

I use MalwareBytes to scan regularly, too, but it has no real-time function...

Again, I defer to essenbe here

Since none catch more than 70%, a couple should be able to work together.

They can, but you have to watch their settings. I have four different AV-AMs

I am careful about sites, too, but there is more and more engineered attacks that
are very tricky. What is the origin of evil? Is there a patch for that? Thanks.

What is the origin of evil?
The origin is when good people do nothing to stand up against it.

http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/178100-black-screen.html#post1513111

 

[essenbe]

I cannot honestly tell you that MSE and Avast are incompatible. I've never run them together so I don't know. But I do know that 2 AV programs trying to do the same thing at the same time is asking for issues. And again, I will make no claims of which is superior because i don't know. I told you why I picked MSE and to me, that is common sense. If anyone knows where the vulnarabilities of an OS are, it should be the ones who designed it. As for cyber bullying, that does not go on here. The members here do have disagreements but at the same time are usually respectful to each other. I like that. There's usually more than one way to deal with an issue and you get to see several.

 

[essenbe]

Anak, we were both posting at the same time. I like yours better. Good job.

 

[essenbe]

In Malwarebytes, click on the protection tab and look at the differences between the free and paid versions.

 

[johnfull]

We got the problem solved. Yaay! The F8 menu is key -- no access to the restore
otherwise. An earlier restore did the trick. Apparently, there were two yesterday
and going back just once didn't fix it. Had to go back to Wednesday.
I used TrendMicro for years as well. I had 6 months of its premium service that
expired in May and I reverted to Avast! because it's familiar and updates often
and in plain sight. I knew about MalwareBytes paid program, but have never
thought to use it. Likewise, Norton and Semantec. Those are so intrusive!
I'll dump MSE for now and go back to just Avast! protection. I'm hoping to keep
that 'new' feeling of W7 for as long as possible. On the other two machines that
I maintain, I'll just be going back to ol' reliable Avast! for others' sakes.
Thanks for the help! Nothing worse than having no options to try...

 

[Anak]

Glad to hear you have your situation sorted out!