Calling home

[Kari]

   Information

Please notice this post is only my own, personal and subjective opinion. I feel this subject is important enough to clearly voice my opinion, although I do not want to start an argument. We've had them enough.

Like ET in Spielberg’s epic movie, today’s computers want to call home. Like ET, they would like to do it without us humans knowing but are forced to ask our help. Reasons are many, from validity checks and crash reports to check if software or OS needs updates installed. One common reason is various Customer Experience programs, software companies collecting information on how we users use their software and which problems we might have with it.

Most of these home calls are completely automatic once we have opted-in, given permission to an application or OS to call home when need arises. Choosing automatic updates in Windows gives it a permission to call home to Microsoft, check if Windows and other Microsoft software is up to date, and install updates when needed. Most well designed, well coded third party applications can also do the same if we have enabled automatic updates.

This issue, computers calling home, got new wind under its wings last February when Microsoft published an update to Windows 7. Update for Windows Activation Technologies (KB971033) was not only designed to check you are running a valid and correctly activated copy of Windows, but is was also coded to call home every now and then, to check that the validity status of Windows installation had not changed.

Windows themed forums were suddenly full of complaints. My home in the Interwebs, The Seven Forums got its share; thread after thread full with complaints. The consensus was that it’s user who should decide what to install, not Windows Update or Microsoft. Some of us tried to offer another approach, to tell that if you have a valid, legal setup, there’s nothing to be afraid of. A few second or so home call without user even noticing them, what’s the problem?

Although installing WAT update voluntarily as soon as it was possible, I can understand those who opposed it. Opponents were and are the same users who have for instance protested against Google’s way to call home, collect information and statistics without normal user even knowing it. These pro-privacy advocates get my sympathy and respect. The other significant opponent group is the pirates, common criminals who steal what they need, even software running on their computers and Lady Gaga singing in their iPods. These people get my antipathy and disrespect.

I have decided, long time ago, to let most of my software to call home. I have a short list of companies I have decided to trust that they are not trying to find out my personal passwords, PIN codes, internet banking credentials or my personal photos. My list includes companies like Microsoft, Norton, F-Secure, Adobe, Google, Skype, and so on. Products of these companies can always call home when they want to.

I have even taken this a bit further by joining a Customer Experience Program whenever it’s possible if the company belongs to my A-list. Why? Because I love Windows 7! Without the huge army of beta testers and users who joined Vista’s and Seven Beta's and RC's Customer Experience Programs Seven wouldn’t be what it is. The final product you and me are using is not only because those coders in Redmond, it’s also because Microsoft could get so much reports from users. And they listened. If Microsoft wants to get an occasional report from my computer, my Seven can call home whenever it (she?) wants to.

If you are running a valid Windows setup and you want to help to create an even better next generation Windows, join Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program. This Seven Forums tutorial tells how. More information on CEIP here.

Almost all new software have something similar. Just to give one example, here’s how to join Windows Live CEIP from Live Messenger:






Finally, don’t automatically believe everything I say. Don’t automatically believe all counter arguments you hear. Find out yourself. Here are a few spoilers, un-truths surprisingly often heard:

• Microsoft is not interested in what you and neighbour's wife are doing when secretly chatting
• Microsoft does not watch you through your webcam
• Mister Ballmer couldn’t care less if he had your Citibank's internet banking credentials
• Multinational software companies are not interested in finding your social security number and mother’s maiden name
• No company cares what you were doing when that photo was taken
• Participating for instance Microsoft CEIP does not make your computer or Internet connection slower, nor does it fill your HD or Windows Registry

Kari

 

[gregrocker]

Hi Kari -

So glad to see you back in fine form.

I only care about performance and tend to want nothing extra that will put even a nick in CPU/RAM, Startup Time or bother me.

For that reason I edit msconfig>Startup list to the bone, only permitting AV and gadgets/stickies.

I find that the Adobes/Javas will find a way to notify me of Updates when they are called to run.

However I really appreciate the interactivity of Win7's Problem solving feature which will now deliver fixes when problems aren't even reported. If that were somehow enhanced by joining something then I am certainly not opposed and would help spread the word.

I am a Windows 7 guy before anything else tech-wise, because Win7 now equals superb performance and that is all I ever wanted.

 

[Kari]

Greg, I hope you already know it but you are one those good guys I respect. The above was and is only one single mans personal approach, these thoughts tonight triggered because I can finally move a bit and booted my desktop first time in almost three months.I think it will be updating all night...

Anyways, I installed Live 2011 replacing Live Beta, and searching the CEIP switch to turn it on, suddenly remembered our heated WAT debate back in February. I just took a pot of coffee beside me and wrote what I was thinking.

One man, one way to do things. Another man, another way.

Peace, Man

Kari

 

[Brink]

Well written Kari.

There are a lot paranoid people out there that believe everything is out to get you. While it's true you should always take proper precautions about what you let in and out of your computer, some things such as this only serves to help make Windows a better product for us all since they cannot possibly duplicate every different type of system and how Windows may run on it. Plus, the phone calls home to help make sure a pirate does not stay activated only helps to keep the costs of Windows down when we buy it and future releases.

 

[polarbear]

Great post Kari. I was always told to respect other peoples beliefs since I was just a boy. ( 40 some years later ) Always enjoy your post. GL

 

[James Colbert]

Thanks for posting, Kari. I can't say I completely agree with everything you've said, nor do I agree with the vehemently vocal opposition. My opinion exists somewhere in between. I do tend to trust MS and some other companies, but I don't kid myself regarding two issues:

1) Corporate lust for personal data that can be used for marketing purposes.
2) The potential abuse for that same marketing data by corporations and Government.

Especially where the Government is concerned.

Society is changing by the minute, and Information Technology is, in large part, the driving force. Privacy issues are rampant. Some are a trade off for our safety (one example being TSA, hassles in flight travel, etc), but make no mistake that liberties are on the table. I don't see this getting better, on the contrary, it will grow worse. Something we must find a way to live with (within reason).

I believe that there must be some form of regulation asserted to protect 'the people', but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't foresee a solution for any of these issues. There's a big picture here that bodes not well for free society, of which 'phoning home' is an obvious component.

James

 

[Kari]

Thanks, guys.

@James Near the end of the post, I ask people not to automatically believe what I've said, or those counter arguments. It's up to each and everyone of us to find the balance between paranoia and reality, smooth and fast running computer and security.

My balance was found when I decided I can not continue computing if I'm afraid of everything. it's a paradox that quite a many user is simultaneously overly paranoid and runs several AV and malware apps simultaneously, computing in sandbox or cloud, but on the other hand don't want those companies to find out anything.

I really have the mentioned A-list, based on my own credibility rankings. The companies on that list can install updates automatically, and I always join their CEIP or similar. I can forget them. On the other hand, I have set almost as complete auditing policy in my home network (Home Server, HTPC, 3 desktops, 3 laptops) as possible, logging about everything.

It's my balance. Like I mentioned in my response to Greg here above, I came to this subject when booting one desktop first time in almost three months and updatind Live. I started to smile when I noticed the first thing I did after I got it installed was to go to settings to turn CEIP on.

 

[James Colbert]

@James Near the end of the post, I ask people not to automatically believe what I've said, or those counter arguments. It's up to each and everyone of us to find the balance between paranoia and reality, smooth and fast running computer and security.

My balance was found...

Apologies if I appeared to be criticizing your opinion. Quite the opposite. I felt comfortable adding mine because your opinion was not the domineering, my way or highway opinion so often heard these days. Your post conveyed respect for differing ideas, freeing others to respect yours. And btw, I may not have agreed with everything you said, but much of it resonates.

James

 

[Bill2]

Most privacy concerns and allegations of personal information collection are associated with click-stream data generated through online activities like surfing, gaming and shopping. Personally I never heard of WAT, CEIP or any security software transmitting personal data by themselves (unless one thinks the name of the computer is personal).

As for Google, I do believe it harvests personal data through search and probably even email. As long as it doesnt splash the contents of my last amorous email all over the web, its OK.

But privacy is an issue thats only going to get bigger and bigger. All "credible" companies have a reputation to sustain but the competition out there is getting meaner and boundaries are being pushed.

 

[Dzomlija]

As Kari has rightly noted, the whole "calling home" thing is a non-issue, and is mostly responsible for making Windows 7 such a great product. One only needs to look at how Windows itself has evolved over the years to realize this. All the way from Windows 95 through to Windows 7, performance and usability has improved, which will not have been possible if Microsoft could not automatically collect usage data, which has defintely been put to good use.

Case in point. When a program crashed in Windows XP, you have a chance to click "Send" or "Dont Send" crash data to Microsoft. It was extremely rare to get any kind of positive feedback from sending said crash report - maybe 1 in 100, if you got lucky. This was improved significantly with Vista and Windows 7, and now perhaps 1 in 100 "fault reports" do not get positive responses.

Even finding drivers for hardware via Microsoft Update has become better. Even though I'm old-skool and still prefer to go directly to the manufacturer, Windows Update has on countless occasions helped me to get an obscure piece of hardware functioning again after a reload.

None of this would have been possible without Windows "phone home" or without my own participation in Customer Experience Improvment Programs.

 

[TVeblen]

Great, thoughtful post Kari.

The only thing I ask, for this subject and so many related subjects like it, is Transparency and Choice.

Transparency: in knowing when the OS wants to phone home - a pop-up window or a log of all transmissions and their content.

Choice: a simple way to say yes or no - either on the pop-up or a toggle in settings.

Whether talking about Phone-Home or Franken-salmon, I just want to know what it is and have to option to choose it or not. Honest transactions do not have to be conducted behind the scenes or in the shadows - the piracy/privacy sword cuts both ways.



In case any developers are listening!

 

[Kari]

Good point, TVeblen.

I like the way Windows Update does this. You have three opt-in choices:

1. Install updates automatically. Nothing is asked once I have enabled automatic updates, the process is executed without noticing me. Afterwards, WU notifies me of possibly required reboot, and tells me new updates were installed
2. Download updates without notifying me, ask me then if I want to install the updates or not
3. Check if updates are available, notify me if yes. Do nothing else without asking

Kari

 

[mickey megabyte]

if anybody is interested in an example of what microsoft do with CEIP data, then take a look at this video about the evolution of the office ribbon interface.

warning - video is for geeks (and nerds) only and lasts 90 minutes - it sustained my interest throughout, but ymmv.

 

[gregrocker]

I wonder how much useful info MS gets from Problem Reports - which can provide solutions even if you don't Send them in Win7.

It makes me wonder how much telemetry is still being transmitted even without CEIP, and how much more useful the Solutions would be if one subscribes.

 

[derekimo]

Excellent, informative thread. Thanks!

 

[pparks1]

It's great to see posts like this which truly make you sit down and think...and want to formulate a constructive comment about the subject at hand.

I'm in the camp that I don't worry about what is transmitted. Even if they are collecting marketing information to personalize marketing towards me, I don't really mind. I mean if they see that I like Porn of type X...I guess since I get spam as it is, it might as well be spam about Porn of type X that I like

With regards to MS pushing an update via Windows update that does this automatically, i don't really care about that either. I understand that I don't "Own" my copy of Windows...but rather am a licensed user of the software. If MS decides they want to change it's behavior, than I usually accept it or change products. But I do realize that many don't feel this way and believe that once they pay the money for the product they should be allowed to use it any way they see fit.

From a sheer performance standpoint, I believe my PC has plenty of horsepower and I have plenty of bandwidth from my ISP to support this level of activity. However, some people may not have this same feeling about their setup and I could understand their wanting to limit it's impact. Although, I'm sure it's easier to quantify in "theory", versus actually proving the time lost on these random occasional transmissions.

 

[DeaconFrost]

Very well thought out and expressed. I'm also in the camp that I don't mind certain things phoning home, because I'm not doing anything illegal with my computer, nor am I running pirated software. If Windows 7 wants to call home and check for updates that will fix problems...then I'm all for it. Like others, I disable some of these, mainly because I don't like being prompted or bothered by them (I'm looking at you, Adobe and Java!).

I truly believe people get their panties in a bunch for no good reason...when there are plenty of other valid reasons elsewhere in life to be worried about.

 

[Kari]

Deacon, Java although not in my A-list but I allow all updates. It's because of internet banking; my bank uses a Java-based security system, and as soon as there's been an update in Java, they seem to update their systems demanding customers to use the latest version, so that's it.

Adobe is on my A-list because Photoshop and Dreamweaver.

Kari

 

[Wishmaster]

Im in the same boat.

I have my A list applications that are free to call home any time they choose.

All Microsoft Software, Norton, Acronis, Perfect Disc, and Nero is my list.

I also joined up in the Customer Improvement programs each offers, if they do.
Beyond that, Im a bit cautious.

 

[Joan Archer]

I'm another in the camp of letting the computer phone home for it's updates, as someone said I'm not doing anything illegal nor do I have anything on my machine that's illegal so I nothing to hide.

Some of my programs actually ask when you start them if you want to check for updates and you have to say either yes or no, they don't do it without permission and I'm not at all paranoid about it.

Thank you for the post Kari it made for interesting reading and led to a worthy discussion, glad to see you back in form.