Can we not just plug/un-plug USB 3.0 drives like we did with 2.0?

[WBFAir]

Hello all

I could really tell a long story here of all the issues I have been dealing with and could provide if requested, but to make this a bit shorter, can we now not just plug and unplug a USB 3.0 drive like we used to with 2.0?

All in all I seem to have really screwed up the USB 3.0 part of several machines with doing this and in thinking it was something else, but all seems to be related to the OS from just randomly unplugging the USB connection as when I do it a few times, and even had it happen once, and especially if its connected say as a network drive or something full time like that, the whole USB 3.0 system of the OS seems to get irreparably damaged. IE, redoing any outside drivers & software is not it as the only way I have been able to fix this is a drive zero out and OS rebuild.

All in all I know you are really supposed to eject the drives to do this safely, but I have plugged and unplugged 2.0 drives in every wrong way you can think of, and at least never ruined the OS's ability to use one again.

Thanks for any help

 

[fireberd]

I use the Safely Remove Hardware with my 3.0, the same as I do with 2.0's and Flash Drives.

Depending on the status or what is or has happened, just unplugging can corrupt the Windows status. When this happens, usually (but not all) you can get it back by reconnecting the device, go to the Device Manager and it will usually show an unknown device in the USB. Uninstall the unknown device in the Device Manager, physically disconnect the device, restart Windows. Then you can connect it and Windows should reinstall it, etc. This procedure is for any USB device that's status gets corrupted.

 

[WBFAir]

Wow thanks so much for the quick reply fireberd

Yeah as to mention, I could write a book on all I have been through over the past two weeks about the issues I have been having.

But for instance, currently I have a 3.0 drive that I seemed to have hosed by pulling from my 3.0 connection, but that works just fine when plugged into a 2.0 connection I have on the exact same machine.

Again, I know am supposed to use the eject, but as I mentioned, have plugged in and out a 2.0 drive out of the same machine for years with never doing that, along with tons of other 2.0 devices, and never used the safe remove, but this 3.0 drive is giving me issues across the board.

For instance, when I first got it, (a 4T MyBook btw), which I was actually mainly using plugged into a router for a DLNA device....as it was already formatted but with some software and drivers on it, I just took off all of that stuff. Then suddenly it stopped working, so I returned it thinking I hosed it. But even when getting the second one, it would not work at all on the main machine until I did a system restore to back before I installed the drive. Then it worked for a bit so I removed all but the drivers, but then that stopped working. So then I got a third drive, did a system restore, setup the drive and left everything on it, and plugged it back into the router.

It then worked great so I thought it was the drive needed everything, all till one day I need to swap some files so used it on the computer again, and seemed to have toasted it for working on the router.

So gave up an bought a laptop with 3.0. Which as it had Win8, replaced that with zeroing out the drive and fresh install of a new copy of Win7 Utlimate, and then shared the drive and mapped it to the main machine and it was working great. Then I got the 3.0 ext cord I had been waiting on so just pulled the 3.0 out from the LT and put in the cord and it just would not see it again.

Would beep and come in for few seconds sometimes, but just never could get it to stay no matter how much I messed with the OS.

So then plugged the drive into my main machine, and it read it, as well with a second LT I have.

But its kinda funky in the 3.0 port, and as well my 2.0 drive will not work in that port now either. But both work great in a 2.0 port it has.

 

[fireberd]

Try the uninstall procedure I listed and see if that makes the 3.0 port work, or work properly again. I've been through that many times for clients and that usually fixes the USB port issues.

 

[WBFAir]

You listed?

Do you have a link?

 

[fireberd]

Here is what I posted in my original response:

Depending on the status or what is or has happened, just unplugging can corrupt the Windows status. When this happens, usually (but not all) you can get it back by reconnecting the device, go to the Device Manager and it will usually show an unknown device in the USB. Uninstall the unknown device in the Device Manager, physically disconnect the device, restart Windows. Then you can connect it and Windows should reinstall it, etc. This procedure is for any USB device that's status gets corrupted.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Drive Policies

Check your drive policies in Device Manager.

​

 

[MilesAhead]

lehnerus2000 beat me to the punch.
Rather than doing the safely remove bit I use "sync.exe" from SysInternals. It flushes the disk buffers to the drive safely on any NT based system by simply locking the volume. Your data is flushed to the USB. No Problemmo.

Although just for grins sometimes I do eject afterward. Just for the sake of paranoia.

 

[Faladu]

I have that write caching disabled and I just wait and make sure the external in use/power on light is not flickering before removing and have not had an issue.

If the external has a specific driver for it's use, that's another thing to install.

 

[WBFAir]

Hey guys, thanks for all the help.

Just to mention, I did all that stuff as far as flushing out the hidden drivers in the procedure that is running in the thread over in the Hardware section, and it seems to have helped.

For sure was able to get a ton of crap out of device manger, which I'm sure was a help.

Anyway I still can't access my 2.0 drive from my 3.0 ports, but this is on the main machine so don't care.

Was able to run the WD Quick format on the 3.0 drive on it and after, it seems better.

So have spent the day rebuilding the LT the 3.0 is to go back on and think this time I will just never unplug the drive without ejecting it for one.

Also will make sure in the prop's it is set for Quick removal.

But also was taking a look at the Sync program Milesahead, and was just wondering...do I have to run that short cut switch of -r to flush the removable drive, or is just running the exe do all drives?

Btw, as mention, did a full rebuild of the LT, all except for installing the USB 3.0 drive for the first time and have done a system restore point and am just about to put the USB back in for the first time, so should be able to use that. But as well used my Acronis image software and created a backup am keeping on the main PC, plus a Secure Zone partition thing on the LT's disk that can be brought up on the boot to reload the back up, all first too.

So think I have everything covered to protect myself if something gets messed up and I need to do a restore back to this point where the USB 3.0 system has not been touch.

BTW just to mention, my one big concern here really is I am looking at a lot of this of what could happen during a power loss. Basically consider that could be much the same scenario as me yanking the plug. Basically the LT will stay running because it has the battery, but the USB 3.0 will go dead, as well as the PC the LT is networked too, with all the sharing and mapping of the drive on it going down too. So who knows what will happen but again, think it would be much like me yanking the plug on the 3.0 drive.

Anyway, all I can do is hope all I have done will be there if an issue like that happens.

Btw, is one sure fire way to be sure I do not corrupt anything is to completely shut off the computer before removing the USB plug?

Kinda seems like the way you have to do a internal drive, so should be a pretty fool proof way for the USB, no?

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[gregrocker]

Run a Disk Check on the drive to be sure.

Sometimes a drive not detected in Explorer will be seen by Partition Wizard Home Edition or Boot CD. to run its Check File System. I have brought external HD's back to life this way. Suddenly the Autoplay box pops up: It's Aliiive!

 

[WBFAir]

Hey guys.

Again, thanks for all the help.

So got the whole system working last night and noticed something in regards to the eject option.

Basically most times I when I try I get messages saying things like cannot shut down the generic drive, or the was a error with ejecting the drive as it is in use, message.

Haven't wanted to mess with this too much as its actually working now, but I was able to usually if I rebooted the machine and did nothing with it really, to then be able to eject it.

But all in all, it seems often the drive has some kind of connection, which makes sense I have been corrupted things by yanking the plug.

Btw I have checked and the drive is set for quick removal in its props.

Also MilesAhead, I tried that Sync program and see it does seem to function, but seems to only be doing a flush of the C drive, least as best as I can see from the quick DOS screen flash. Again, I noticed some switches from the Microsoft page to set it up to flush a plug-in or named drive, but I have tried several configs of this but can't seem to get it to work, so if you could copy me a working shortcut string that works right for you, would greatly appreciate it.

So for this issue, again basically I had some trouble disconnecting the drive, and while I haven't tried it, I think it might be even worse now as after and this being the whole point to this machine, I then setup up the drive to be a server for media with using myPlex. So basically its shared now, and being connected full time by myPlex.

So all in all, for me is the only real best way to safely disconnect this drive is to shut down the machine?

Thanks

 

[AddRAM]

Try ejecting it from Computer ( My Computer ) it should always work from there.

 

[lehnerus2000]

If I change the view on folders to thumbnails (e.g. large Icons or Extra Large Icons) I have trouble ejecting my external HDDs.
Windows Explorer will not release the drive after that (sometimes running Disk Check will make it let go).

I used to be able to kill all of the Threads and Handles (using Process Explorer) and that would allow me to release my external HDDs, but even that trick doesn't work anymore.

Interestingly enough, I never have problems ejecting USB Flash sticks.

 

[gregrocker]

I'm confused now: If this default setting allows USB to be unplugged safely without using "Safely Removed" what if it's in the middle of writing something? And how does this relate to write-caching?

 

[lehnerus2000]

"Quick removal" is the default setting.

I also find it ironic that "improved performance" can actually slow the entire operation down.
You have to use "Safely Remove" because your data may not have been written.

I'm confused now: If this default setting allows USB to be unplugged safely without using "Safely Removed" what if it's in the middle of writing something? And how does this relate to write-caching?

Logically, I assume that if you are writing a large file and you rip the USB stick out, you will get a corrupted/incomplete file.
It would be the same as turning the power off when writing files to your HDD.

I've never tried it.
Maybe you get a message and you can plug your stick back in, to complete the operation.
I suspect that you would have to copy the entire file across again (as per the "chkdsk" warning).

I guess that MS thought that people would only be writing small files (say <1 MB) to the USB drives and therefore they couldn't pull the stick out before the writing was complete.

Logically, I assume that "write-caching" creates a queue and Windows will get around to copying your files when it feels like it.
Presumably "Safely Remove" forces Windows to write the files.

That said, I don't think that there should be any problems (with either setting) unless your PC is performing lots of HDD operations and/or you run out of USB bandwidth.

 

[MilesAhead]

I'm confused now: If this default setting allows USB to be unplugged safely without using "Safely Removed" what if it's in the middle of writing something? And how does this relate to write-caching?

The hot unplug assumes you waited for disk access indications to stop.. if there are any. I have an AData USB 3 and it doesn't have the flickering LED. I leave the write-caching on. I wait for Explorer file transfer dialog to close, then hit it with sync.exe a couple of times just to be safe.

The write caching helps especially if you are writing a bunch of small files, say temp files, to the drive.

But in my opinion any disk write caching that delays the phusical writes should only be employed if you have UPS.