Can Windows 7 save PCs?

[Lordbob75]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Windows 7 is coming soon. But having a PC sales rebound come with it seems unlikely.
Computer sales are mired in an awful slump, as businesses and consumers have reined in spending during the recession. Year-over-year global PC shipments fell 7% in the first quarter, the largest drop in that measure since the third quarter of 2001 amid the dot.com bust, according to tech analysis firm IDC.
But Microsoft's new operating system is set to debut on Oct. 22, and experts for the most part like what they have seen. That's a dramatic shift from the largely negative reviews -- and disappointing sales -- of its current Windows version, Vista.
"Microsoft learned a lot from its mistakes with Vista," said Richard Shim, analyst at IDC. "They fixed some very important features and made an impressive operating system."

0:00 /2:56Anything but Vista
Despite the positive reviews, most analysts say Windows 7 alone is not enough to jumpstart lackluster PC sales. They cite customer animosity toward Microsoft (MSFT, Fortune 500), a change in consumer trends and the typically slow pace of businesses' OS integration as reasons.
Microsoft's problem: Windows is by far the most-used PC operating system. Last year, 83% of new PCs sold had Windows built in.
Windows 7 may be a shiny and new version of the world's No. 1 OS, but analysts wonder if customers are willing to give Microsoft a second chance after Vista. Users complain that Vista is sluggish, has too many versions and is susceptible to bugs.
According to a survey of more than 1,000 IT professionals nationwide conducted in March by Dimension Research, 50% said they were considering leaving Windows altogether rather than switch to Windows 7. Apple's (AAPL, Fortune 500) Mac OS X was the system they are most likely to switch to.
"Microsoft tried to stuff too many features into the Vista bag, and the bag burst," said Zeus Kerravala, analyst with Yankee Group. "There was a big loss of goodwill towards Microsoft [over Vista.]"
Happy with my clunker: Disenchantment with Windows may not help a PC sales rebound, but PCs may have been doomed anyway.

Can Windows 7 save PCs? - Jun. 12, 2009

What I still don't get, is that people refer to Windows computers as PCs and Apple computers as Apples. But they are both PCs (Personal Computers) and Apple even created the first PC! Yet the Apple commercials only reinforce this......... Why?

~Lordbob

 

[Win7User512]

Can Windows 7 save PCs? - Jun. 12, 2009

What I still don't get, is that people refer to Windows computers as PCs and Apple computers as Apples. But they are both PCs (Personal Computers) and Apple even created the first PC! Yet the Apple commercials only reinforce this......... Why?

~Lordbob

Probably because "Macintosh" is a brand and Windows is a series of software products that run on computers.

 

[holo88]

IMO Macintosh trys too hard to be differant. almost to the pint of useless. all that 'anything you can do, i can do better' B/S is really just that, BULL!
People would buy their own s&*t, if the marketing was good enough.

iLife ... is STILL the gheyest thing i ever heard anything referred to as. (lol)

 

[Lee]

Apple pushes it because it clearly separates their OS and computers (laptop/desktop) from the rest. By indicating that a Mac is a Mac, and not a PC it allows people to see that there is a difference between a PC running Windows OS (Dell, HP, Sony, etc.) and the OS on a Mac computer. Apple wants to keep the PC label far away from the Mac which makes perfect sense.

 

[saverio]

In a nutshell... exactly Lee.

I always refer to windows boxes as PC's and macs as Apple. I suppose that it's really to do with the fact the apple brand is just that, a self contained hardware brand, and thus it's own entity - rather than Windows which is a product designed to run on a generic product specification.

Holo88, however gay the name, the product suite is superb and functional for the non technical user. Sure windows has all of the iLife bits and bobs somewhere in it already as well, but iLife packages them wonderfully well. I'd like to see it coded for PC but i'm sure that it won't happen.

In regards to the article, I'm sure that windows 7 will give the buying public one less reason not to upgrade if Microsoft get their marketing strategy right. Credit crisis aside, a lot of people are put off (wrongly) from buying due to the forcing them to use vista. In that respect the stigma has stuck, and as we say here in the UK, 'you can't teach pork'.

It's ironic that we can take Vista, polish it and refine it, and as long as you don't call it vista the public are very open and receptive to it as was shown in the Microsoft commercials on their website.

I think, and I might be wrong, that now lazy developers have realised that Microsoft no longer will tolerate unsigned/ unverified/ lazy coding. I sympathise with MS when it comes to this, as I feel that it's been very accomodating in the past.

If Microsoft had done what apple had done when it released OS X, it would have been a roll out of 7, with no public beta apart from developer portals, and a shell window for the old OS (effectively Virtual XP).... and a message to developers and users - this is the way it is from now on, deal with it - developers get a move on, and users just use the virtualisation window until developers catch up.

I was one of those early OS X adopters, and now 9 years on, i'm an early W7 adopter, funny how life is

 

[itznfb]

do PC's need saved? OSX has less than 10% market share and declining... i don't think PC has any threat from a tree hugger fad.

 

[jw12345]

do PC's need saved? OSX has less than 10% market share and declining... i don't think PC has any threat from a tree hugger fad.

I believe so. Or at least there are a lot of things that PCs have to learn from Apple. Just like automobiles in the early 1900s, as they proliferate to a wider audience, they went from requiring extensive technical knowledge to operate and maintain to where we are today - turn a key and you've got two pedals and a steering wheel, occasionally take in to a shop for maintenance. There are countless example of this happening across a wide range of products in history. As your audience increases, you have to push internals away from your users. Apple provides that all-in-one experience where you open the box and you have the vast majority of software you will ever need and it all slickly integrates together within a mature OS. It a heck of a lot easier to figure out for somebody who isn't familiar with the latest software and hardware.

I agree with the Apple philosophy of computers as appliances. At the present, PCs require a lot of fiddling and downloading of third party software to get working perfectly, where Apple offers a slim box you turn on, enter account details for your mail, calender, and im, and you're pretty much set. Most people don't give a crap about hardware internals or speed for dollar and IMHO OS X is a nicer OS than 7 (I use 7 due to onenote being so important to me)

And the numbers I've seen show that Macs are accelerating adoption, and in some lucrative markets (e.g., universities where students to researchers use os x heavily and art/design), rival PC use.

 

[saverio]

I agree JW12345, i've always beleived the most powerful tools are the ones you can use, and for the non technical savvy consumer Macs are the perfect solution.

I moved to Windows because of the CAD and engineering design software I use, but if the two main packages ever became native on the mac, then as it stands, at the moment i'd go back to OS X as it's still a lot more of a nicer user experience than 7, but that said I do rate 7 very highly apart from some aesthetics which are neither here nor there.

 

[DrWho]

There aren't many of us old timers left who can even remember the lowly Commodore 64 (my first computer) or the earliest IBM Personal Computer (PC).

"PC" was a nic-name for the IBM Personal Computer. When first released, it was the only true "PC" on the planet. It came with IBM DOS. Microsoft wasn't even in the game. But they did come along later and offered a DOS that was in many ways superior to IBM Dos.
My first copy of MS-DOS was version 2.0, given to me by a friend, to install on my first PC, an IBM XT-Clone.

Once the computer enthusiasts (like me) found out that the Japanese were making replacement parts for the IBM PC, it was easy to just buy the cloned parts and build our own PC's. And cheaper too!

Obviously, what we created was not an IBM Personal Computer, but the name "PC" stuck as an explanation of what we'd made.
All of the name brand personal computers, that we see in the stores today, came along later, but they also were called a "PC", because they were "IBM Compatible" and ran IBM software.

Apple was always an overpriced and overblown computer that was so far off the beaten track that very few people even wanted to mess with them.
Just the price, scared off many that were interested in getting a computer.

For the Geek, Nerd or Enthusiast, who liked to build their own computer or program it themselves, the IBM Clone, now just called the "PC" was the only way to go. Apple wasn't even in the running.

I find it ironic, that today, IBM isn't even in the home computer business.

Today, retail stores stock thousands of software titles compatible with the PC and M$ OS's, and not ONE single title for the MAC.

Even these internet forums are all about the PC. MAC hardly even gets honorable mention.

Now for Windows 7.:sarc:
It's nothing more than Visduh on steroids, with a tummy tuck and botox.
Every tweak or tune-up tip that works on Visduh will also work on Win-7.
Every driver (most anyway) that works on Visduh works on 7.

Many folks may be fooled into believing that 7 is a whole new OS, but this old tech just ain't a gonna be fooled into believing that. Sorry, MS!

It's almost like the difference between Windows 98 and Windows 98SE.
Some problems were fixed and that's about it.

Most all of the things that I, as a tech, hated about Visduh, is still alive and well in 7. It still needs a lot of tweaking and tuning to get it to run fast and efficiently. And all the "Permissions" limitations is enough to make a grown man cry. Thank God, for "Take Ownership"!!!

Like every other MS OS since '95, it's only about 30% to 40% efficient, right out of the box. It reminds me of those kid's toys that say "Some assembly required.....batteries not included".

Fortunately, I've committed all my tweaks to batch files or scripts, for a quick and easy install.

Yes, I'll take Win-7 over Vista any day, but I won't be standing in any lines on October 22 to buy it. I'm sure I'll be running XP-Pro-SP3 on my main PC, well into the next decade, long after MS has dropped all support for it.

I hope y'all have a great day!

The Doctor

 

[copernicus]

Can Windows 7 save PCs? - Jun. 12, 2009

What I still don't get, is that people refer to Windows computers as PCs and Apple computers as Apples. But they are both PCs (Personal Computers) and Apple even created the first PC! Yet the Apple commercials only reinforce this......... Why?

~Lordbob

Apple gets free reign to libel Windows indirectly by using the term PC instead of windows.

It also helps them create the illusion that their products are part of an imaginary new subset under computers.

 

[Barman58]

A recent conversation I had with the head of a major UK ISP's support department provided an interesting take on the ease of use and reliability situation,.

I believe that MAC market share in the UK is actually lower that the worldwide figure of c.10%, however, It was stated that between 20 and 30% of received calls related to the MAC OS and hardware,

The amount of calls received for MACs assuming exactly equal ease of use and reliability should be a lot lower.

No axe to grind but it does make me think that Apple's claims in this area may be a little overstated

 

[jw12345]

A recent conversation I had with the head of a major UK ISP's support department provided an interesting take on the ease of use and reliability situation,.

I believe that MAC market share in the UK is actually lower that the worldwide figure of c.10%, however, It was stated that between 20 and 30% of received calls related to the MAC OS and hardware,

The amount of calls received for MACs assuming exactly equal ease of use and reliability should be a lot lower.

No axe to grind but it does make me think that Apple's claims in this area may be a little overstated

Just in my experience with family and friends, it's much easier to get them going with their mail, calender, im, internet, etc on os x. With PCs, they typically need to download all sorts of third party software and set it up with inconsistent interfaces and integration. ANd not to mention the shovelware most pc makers put on computers. I don't quite understand the Apple hate here. I quite like both Leopard and 7, and their 13" macbook pro is affordable and a great laptop for most people, and will probably be my next laptop.

The only really confusing thing about macs seems to be the whole windows vs app division, but you grow to appreciate it quickly.

As for why most mac users would call support, I can think of tons of possibilities (recent pc to mac switchers are still getting the hang of the interface, the ISP has poor mac setup instructions/support, mac users have fewer friends/family that can help them set a mac up)

 

[Win7User512]

Just in my experience with family and friends, it's much easier to get them going with their mail, calender, im, internet, etc on os x. With PCs, they typically need to download all sorts of third party software and set it up with inconsistent interfaces and integration. ANd not to mention the shovelware most pc makers put on computers. I don't quite understand the Apple hate here. I quite like both Leopard and 7, and their 13" macbook pro is affordable and a great laptop for most people, and will probably be my next laptop.

I think those tasks are easier because the software comes with the OS. I could be wrong about that.

 

[jw12345]

I think those tasks are easier because the software comes with the OS. I could be wrong about that.

Yes, partially, but I've found the bundled software on OS X to be among the best you can get for most needs (there will always be somebody who needs more powerful solutions), but the programs themselves are dead simple to set up. Just type in your username and password, and much of this will be set up. Also the integration within the suite has no counterpart on the pc side. Even if you preinstalled the official AIM client, Windows Mail, Calendar etc, it can never work as seamlessly as if they were made by the same people with the purpose of working together. It works because Apple makes quality software.

 

[Catswold]

To JW12345 and the rest of you, one of the problems is with government interference in Microsoft's business.

Whenever MS attempts to bundle software into their operating system, their competitors start crying "Foul!" and go whining to the anti-monopoly police that MS is attempting to drive them out of the business.

I am certain that MS would love to bundle a whole lot of software into the Windows OS so that all you would have to do is logon with your name, license and answer a few question.

Look at what is happening to MS in Europe with IE right now. MS was forced to offer to unbundle IE8.

Apple gets away with it because they are a much smaller operation and no threat to dominate the market; Microsoft can't do the same thing because the are too big.

Get the anti-trust units out of the PC business and so that MS could exert the same control over hardware implementation that Apple does and perhaps MS would deliver a better overall experience.

Personally, as a PC tinkerer and builder of systems, I would hate that. As a consumer and user I might like that.

Catch 22

 

[saverio]

that may be true catswold, but why doesn't Microsoft then do the following:

make an iLife suite equivalent, and offer it as a download?

Naturally this means people have the 'choice' to not have it, if they choose- perhaps just with a link or a flyer in the retail packaged OS telling them that its a gift as a way of saying thankyou for buying the OS.

After all, Apple do say they 'bundle' iLife with all new macs inferring that it's doing the consumer yet another favour.

I understand about the monopoly comission side of things, but ultimately when I used my mac, I still had my own mind, and made my own choices. - I chose to download and use safari over iE and firefox.

Alternatively shut them up by throwing in all the browsers !