Continuing the Fight Against Piracy.

[seekermeister]

Lens Pirate,

I do not consider "try before you buy" to be stealing, as long as it ends up in a purchase or removal of the software. One might term it borrowing, not stealing. Without an actual trial, acquiring software is a grab bag, once paid for there are usually no refunds. As far as I'm concerned, any software that doesn't permit a trial period should be illegal.

 

[madtownidiot]

My laptop has a faster processor, faster memory, and a better gpu than a PS3 but with games like GTA 4 the graphics are crap.. I swear it's because of all the extra processes like safedisk and drm that kill the game. Maybe that's the real reason people download pirated games.. they perform better when you get rid of all the anti-pirating add-ons

 

[valtonray]

i'm not saying it's right that i got the disney movies for them, but if you could point me anywhere that currently has the vaulted collection available on dvd or as a digital download then she would be more than happy to purchase them. our father is a music producer we do understand how piracy affects the people that make a living off of the sells. but without a viable option to buy them legally there isn't much else to do. it's basically like if my dad put out an albulm for an artist with no distribution. sure the album exists but if it's not avaible for sale anywhere how else would you obtain it?

 

[pparks1]

Yeah, I hate the way that Disney does their movies. Apparently they don't want people to own them since they are often not available for purchase.

 

[Lens Pirate]

Lens Pirate,

I do not consider "try before you buy" to be stealing, as long as it ends up in a purchase or removal of the software. One might term it borrowing, not stealing. Without an actual trial, acquiring software is a grab bag, once paid for there are usually no refunds. As far as I'm concerned, any software that doesn't permit a trial period should be illegal.

i'm not saying it's right that i got the disney movies for them, but if you could point me anywhere that currently has the vaulted collection available on dvd or as a digital download then she would be more than happy to purchase them. our father is a music producer we do understand how piracy affects the people that make a living off of the sells. but without a viable option to buy them legally there isn't much else to do. it's basically like if my dad put out an albulm for an artist with no distribution. sure the album exists but if it's not avaible for sale anywhere how else would you obtain it?

Seekermeister It does not matter that you think its ok to try before you buy or not. What matters is if the written copyrigyht agreement gives that ability or not.
If you are allowed to try before you buy then its ok. If it is not provided for by the owner of the copyrighted material then it is theft.

Valtonray, your view point seems to be that you are ultimately entitled to that Disney software because you want it, and Disney is compeled to provide you its use. If they don't then you can steal it? Disney is totaly with in thier rights to not sell thier software. Just because they are not interested in selling it to you does not invalidate thier intellectual property rights.

Doing with out is a viable option.

 

[seekermeister]

Seekermeister It does not matter that you think its ok to try before you buy or not. What matters is if the written copyrigyht agreement gives that ability or not.
If you are allowed to try before you buy then its ok. If it is not provided for by the owner of the copyrighted material then it is theft.

It doesn't matter to you what I think, but then what you think doesn't effect me either. This is not a forum about the law, it is a forum of computer users, and no law dictates what any of us must believe or say.

 

[Lens Pirate]

Seekermeister It does not matter that you think its ok to try before you buy or not. What matters is if the written copyrigyht agreement gives that ability or not.
If you are allowed to try before you buy then its ok. If it is not provided for by the owner of the copyrighted material then it is theft.

It doesn't matter to you what I think, but then what you think doesn't effect me either. This is not a forum about the law, it is a forum of computer users, and no law dictates what any of us must believe or say.

Fine with me. If you really feel deep down inside your perceived entitlement to things trumps the rights of others to be secure in their property and that law has no place in a forum thread about piracy then reluctantly I have to agree with you.
We have so little in common that it will be pointless to talk. I would just ask you to please not steal from me, even if you think you are entitled. OK?

 

[seekermeister]

Fine with me. If you really feel deep down inside your perceived entitlement to things trumps the rights of others to be secure in their property and that law has no place in a forum thread about piracy then reluctantly I have to agree with you.
We have so little in common that it will be pointless to talk. I would just ask you to please not steal from me, even if you think you are entitled. OK?

Pointless? Perhaps, but if you don't want me to respond, then don't spin my statements. I said that the law doesn't dictate what we believe or say, but I didn't say that it had no bearing on what we do. However, even in this aspect, it does not dictate our actions, it only provides the means of punishment...if caught and convicted. By man's law, each person is responsible for their own actions, by God's law this extends to thoughts and speech, but no one on this forum is God. You may judge what is said, but your judgment shall be judged also.

From the tone of your post, it sounds as though you are a developer yourself, or is your comment about stealing from you just rhetorical?

 

[Lens Pirate]

Fine with me. If you really feel deep down inside your perceived entitlement to things trumps the rights of others to be secure in their property and that law has no place in a forum thread about piracy then reluctantly I have to agree with you.
We have so little in common that it will be pointless to talk. I would just ask you to please not steal from me, even if you think you are entitled. OK?

Pointless? Perhaps, but if you don't want me to respond, then don't spin my statements. I said that the law doesn't dictate what we believe or say, but I didn't say that it had no bearing on what we do. However, even in this aspect, it does not dictate our actions, it only provides the means of punishment...if caught and convicted. By man's law, each person is responsible for their own actions, by God's law this extends to thoughts and speech, but no one on this forum is God. You may judge what is said, but your judgment shall be judged also.

From the tone of your post, it sounds as though you are a developer yourself, or is your comment about stealing from you just rhetorical?

It was rhetorical. But more importantly, I had no idea you were religous and would appeal to Myth as part of your arguement. Man's law indeed. I withdraw, discretion being the better part of valor.

 

[seekermeister]

It was rhetorical. But more importantly, I had no idea you were religous and would appeal to Myth as part of your arguement. Man's law indeed. I withdraw, discretion being the better part of valor.

My beliefs "mythological" or not, have nothing to do with the core of my statements. This inclusion was merely an extension of the discussion to it's ultimate boundaries. As I have no desire to change the subject matter of this thread, I shall join you in a withdrawal.

 

[severedsolo]

i am going to hold my hands up here and say i have actually recently downloaded a pirated game, but for a (good?) reason,

basically, my girlfriend bought a very old game, with some very dodgy copy protection on it, and it borked windows, not majorly, nothing a sys restore couldnt fix, so i went and downloaded her a pirated copy to get around the copy protection so she could play it, now to me, thats actually fair enough, i mean she did pay for it, i just got a less than legit copy for her actually to play, although i know this is kind of a grey area

 

[jfar]

Might be a good time to introduce some music to the discussion,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8

 

[patio]

Lens Pirate,

I do not consider "try before you buy" to be stealing, as long as it ends up in a purchase or removal of the software. One might term it borrowing, not stealing. Without an actual trial, acquiring software is a grab bag, once paid for there are usually no refunds. As far as I'm concerned, any software that doesn't permit a trial period should be illegal.

Think i'll "borrow" that new Mustang convertible for a few months and see if i want to buy one...

 

[jfar]

Lens Pirate,

I do not consider "try before you buy" to be stealing, as long as it ends up in a purchase or removal of the software. One might term it borrowing, not stealing. Without an actual trial, acquiring software is a grab bag, once paid for there are usually no refunds. As far as I'm concerned, any software that doesn't permit a trial period should be illegal.

Think i'll "borrow" that new Mustang convertible for a few months and see if i want to buy one...

Play that music from the post above you, in that beautiful Mustang car and
let us know what you think of it,

 

[seekermeister]

Think i'll "borrow" that new Mustang convertible for a few months and see if i want to buy one...

Wrong brand...buy a Chevy and you get a free 60 day trial. Even with Mustang, a person can at least get a trial drive before buying, and it is backed up with a guarantee. That guarantee doesn't include a long list of known issues, nor does one have to buy a new one each year, just to keep it running. After the warranty has expired, one can still get plenty of mechanics that can repair it, which can't be said about most software, because of it's source code being kept secret.

 

[valtonray]

Think i'll "borrow" that new Mustang convertible for a few months and see if i want to buy one...

Wrong brand...buy a Chevy and you get a free 60 day trial. Even with Mustang, a person can at least get a trial drive before buying, and it is backed up with a guarantee. That guarantee doesn't include a long list of known issues, nor does one have to buy a new one each year, just to keep it running. After the warranty has expired, one can still get plenty of mechanics that can repair it, which can't be said about most software, because of it's source code being kept secret.

agreed i dont know of a single auto manufacturer that doesn't offer at least a 72 hour test drive, i usually know within 2-3 rather i want to make a software purchase based on testing it out. and ford let my sister keep an explorer to test drive for about 9 months after one of their dealerships sold her car while she was on the original test drive period. they never even asked for her to return it but she took it back one day and bought a different one without the mileage, not to mention they gave her more for her car then they actually sold it for.

 

[Tews]

This sounds like pure sophistry ... apples and oranges ... while I agree it would be a nice idea in principle, the fact remains that it is not going to happen... what ever happened to the concept of personal integrity and doing the right thing because its the right thing to do?

 

[severedsolo]

people always bring up cars when discussing piracy, the difference is, if a car is made badly, you can get a refund/replacement, if you buy buggy software, your stuck with it.

slightly off tangent here, but i think that the EULA for software should be on the outside of the box, you try taking your software back because you dont agree to the EULA, good luck with that, possibly the only "for" argument i can think of for the "try before you buy" idea, at least you get to read the EULA without parting wit your cash

 

[brayway]

It's interesting how many people(in this forum, for example) actually paid for their OS.

Well, with respects to my OS...I simply don't trust a pirated version of the OS running on my machine. To me, it's like buying a really crappy off-brand mobo and then plugging all state of the art components into it...a bad base just isn't going to lead to good results.

For many people, their OS's are legit because it came with the computer they purchased. While many of us here like to build our own machines...there are probably quite a large number of people who just bought an off the shelf prebuilt machine which of course came with a properly licensed and paid for operating system.

As jimbo mentioned, many around these parts have invested in a Technet subscription. For $250-$350..you get handfuls of licenses for all of the Windows desktop OS's, server OS's and Office products. For many, paying that sum of money to have legit copies and licenses for that many products is simply worth it.

For me, it's a matter or principle. I'm a fan of Linux and open source. But I also feel that Windows and commercial software has it's place. However, I don't believe that I can praise the benefits of running Microsoft Windows without having to be subject to the cost and licensing restrictions. So, for me, I have to pay the $200 or so for the OS and then find the value of doing so in order to tell others that it's a good OS. If I don't feel it's worth the $200...then I should just run something that doesn't cost $200...and there are tons of options available.

The reason i do what i said i do is because it is now quite rare to find a trial of games so that is a way of having a trial, u try it for like an hr, if i like it i buy it, if i dont like it i will uninstall it then delete the downloaded files. But if there is a trial for it i will just use that.

 

[valtonray]

agreed, not every product we consider purchasing has an available demo, and since i don't know a single place that will refund a software purchase because im unhappy with it or because it doesn't run i my computer it would be easy for a user to acquire hundreds or even thousands of dollars in software they can't use. some of the or sometimes you may find a demo but it has features locked on it, sometimes these feature can be the most appealing part of the program. say for instance ms released a demo of 7 but it didn't have the superbar functions, or all the window snap and shake features included, whats the point of testing a gimped version? now lets say i have a random task that im not likely to have to repeat on a regular basis, i'm naturally not going to buy an expensive product i may only use 1 time, but im not going to pirate that program either, i'll simply find an open source alternative or trial program that allows me to accomplish the task at hand, notice i had no intention to buy a product, so in my instance i wouldn't use a pirated copy to test it. everytime i've pirated a software i've either bought that program or found an alternative better suited to my needs, i don't really feel like thats wrong.