Convincing a father to allow his son to subscribe..

[Zidane24]

according to this....
https://om.one.microsoft.com/OPA/htmlpages/TC/TC-en-us.htm
which is the agreemnent...
and i quote...

Well thats a dagger to the heart there Looks like that is the only way then Codfish...have you tried your other parent/guardian (if there is another)?

 

[Codfish]

Well, hopefully your father is just really looking out for your best interests here. I mean, the likihood of you actually getting your $350 worth out a year of TechNet is pretty small. And if you father knows anything about software licensing, he may realize that what you are doing is not within the licensing agreement anyway.

I mean being brutally honest...why spend money on Technet...if you are just going to NOT ABIDE by the licensing rules anyway and install for production use and use it on numerous computers and share with others? Doesn't make sense to me.

And as far as parent's oversight on the spending of own money....a lot of factors play into this. Past spending habits, the need to borrow money from parents for other things that you do need. My parents always watched my spending as well and in the end I think it taught me a lot of valuable life lessons that I am thankful for everyday now.

This will be basically the only thing I've bought, other than the computer I currently own right now which I spent about $700 on considering the upgrades and other things.

And getting the "bang for my buck" is going to be hard, if not, impossible?

Windows 7 Ultimate = $219.99 at the most smallest amount paid.

Then let's say for some odd reason, I want to try dual booting Windows 7 Ultimate as well as Windows 7 Pro.

Windows 7 Professional = $199.99 at the most smallest amount paid.

$219.99 + $199.99 = $410(rounding off).. That's nearly $75 over the amount that I paid!
So that's what I don't understand.. how is it that spending a mere $350 on a subscription has a very small chance of me getting my moneys worth when it's as easy as two Operating Systems away.

As for the licensing and other things, I'm not sure. I'd rather do this than pirate my way into Windows 7 Ultimate, though.

 

[Zidane24]

This will be basically the only thing I've bought, other than the computer I currently own right now which I spent about $700 on considering the upgrades and other things.

And getting the "bang for my buck" is going to be hard, if not, impossible?

Windows 7 Ultimate = $219.99 at the most smallest amount paid.

Then let's say for some odd reason, I want to try dual booting Windows 7 Ultimate as well as Windows 7 Pro.

Windows 7 Professional = $199.99 at the most smallest amount paid.

$219.99 + $199.99 = $410(rounding off).. That's nearly $75 over the amount that I paid!
So that's what I don't understand.. how is it that spending a mere $350 on a subscription has a very small chance of me getting my moneys worth when it's as easy as two Operating Systems away.

As for the licensing and other things, I'm not sure. I'd rather do this than pirate my way into Windows 7 Ultimate, though.

I hate to be cyncial here but at least you would be giving Microsoft something for their OS...pirating is never right

 

[pparks1]

Windows 7 Ultimate = $219.99 at the most smallest amount paid.

First off, i think there is NO REASON whatsoever that you need Ultimate. However, if you really feel the urge to get it....you can get Vista Ultimate with a free upgrade to Windows 7 for $189 from NewEgg. Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - Operating Systems. Thus you could evaluate whether you wanted to use Vista or Windows 7.

Then let's say for some odd reason, I want to try dual booting Windows 7 Ultimate as well as Windows 7 Pro.

Who would ever do this?? You don't dual boot the same operating system. Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 7 Premium are the same thing. If you have Ultimate, you have everything that 7 Premium has.

how is it that spending a mere $350 on a subscription has a very small chance of me getting my moneys worth when it's as easy as two Operating Systems away.

Well, you can get 2 operating systems here for $109 Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - Operating Systems. That's Vista and Windows 7. That's 1/3 the cost.

 

[Codfish]

Well thats a dagger to the heart there Looks like that is the only way then Codfish...have you tried your other parent/guardian (if there is another)?

Well that's another thing.
The parents need to come to an agreement and if they do not I can't just go to the one parent that approves and get them to sign it, not only would my other parent guilt trip me but I'd get pretty guilty after as well.

 

[pparks1]

As for the licensing and other things, I'm not sure. I'd rather do this than pirate my way into Windows 7 Ultimate, though.

I was being somewhat cynical in my post....but the facts seem to indicate that you want to spend a certain amount of money (perhaps $350) in this case, but then use that $350 to install essentially unlimited installs of the software and not within an "evaluation" context but rather in a "instead of paying the real price that Microsoft is asking" manner.

I'm not going to lie, Microsoft OS's when you have multiple computers is expensive..., but that also doesn't mean that it should be stolen or license agreements violated. That's the great thing about this new Family Pack and the beauty of having other OS options like Linux to choose from for secondary and tertiary computers.

 

[Zidane24]

Well that's another thing.
The parents need to come to an agreement and if they do not I can't just go to the one parent that approves and get them to sign it, not only would my other parent guilt trip me but I'd get pretty guilty after as well.

You wouldn't happen to be a son of a lawyer or other business type family would you?

 

[Codfish]

First off, i think there is NO REASON whatsoever that you need Ultimate. However, if you really feel the urge to get it....you can get Vista Ultimate with a free upgrade to Windows 7 for $189 from NewEgg. Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - Operating Systems. Thus you could evaluate whether you wanted to use Vista or Windows 7.

The problem with that is that it's an OEM System Builders disc.
I remember asking about that too and then later found out that it's basically an OEM license that you attach to the computer that you built. Meaning if you change one thing about the physical hardware of the computer(ex: upgrading 1GB of RAM to 2 GB of RAM) it will screw up the license or something similar and will end the license because it doesn't have the same specs as it did when I activated it with the OEM license.

Who would ever do this?? You don't dual boot the same operating system. Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 7 Premium are the same thing. If you have Ultimate, you have everything that 7 Premium has.

Well I'm sorry if I made a bad example.

Well, you can get 2 operating systems here for $109 Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - Operating Systems. That's Vista and Windows 7. That's 1/3 the cost.

Once again, I wouldn't be able to upgrade any of my parts if I went with that.

 

[Muad Dib]

Well cost/benefit of Technet aside (I have a subscription) you mentioned learning to program. That is great but the Technet Subscrption does not include evaluation copies of the developement tools such as Visual Studio Pro, etc.

Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

But I will bet that a person with your initiative will find alternatives to get started with.

 

[Zidane24]

Well cost/benefit of Technet aside (I have a subscription) you mentioned learning to program. That is great but the Technet Subscrption does not include evaluation copies of the developement tools such as Visual Studio Pro, etc.

Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

But I will bet that a person with your initiative will find alternatives to get started with.

If he were to buy a MSDN subscription would that include dev tools along with any OS/Office Software?

 

[fseal]

If he were to buy a MSDN subscription would that include dev tools along with any OS/Office Software?

Only on some versions (the more expensive ones) and only some of the software.

Actually I think a case for the technet can be made as he is a student and using the tools to learn on, as long as he's not running a commercial website or developing commercial software on it it would be within the spirit of "evaulation".

If you want to make software for sale then get the MSDN, though the cheaper versions don't come with any office tools.

So... If you merely want to leanr how to code or admin and become proficient ahead of your peers without making money offof it and without installing it on all your friends machines, then Technet + the "Basic" versions of the MSDev tools would work.

If you want to make software to sell, then get the cheaper MSDN subscription and Office Home and Student and you would be set that way.

 

[Zidane24]

Only on some versions (the more expensive ones) and only some of the software.

Actually I think a case for the technet can be made as he is a student and using the tools to learn on, as long as he's not running a commercial website or developing commercial software on it it would be within the spirit of "evaulation".

If you want to make software for sale then get the MSDN, though the cheaper versions don't come with any office tools.

So... If you merely want to leanr how to code or admin and become proficient ahead of your peers without making money offof it and without installing it on all your friends machines, then Technet + the "Basic" versions of the MSDev tools would work.

If you want to make software to sell, then get the cheaper MSDN subscription and Office Home and Student and you would be set that way.

Thank you for a clear cut explanation of the options available!

 

[pparks1]

I remember asking about that too and then later found out that it's basically an OEM license that you attach to the computer that you built. Meaning if you change one thing about the physical hardware of the computer(ex: upgrading 1GB of RAM to 2 GB of RAM) it will screw up the license or something similar and will end the license because it doesn't have the same specs as it did when I activated it with the OEM license.

You have misunderstood the OEM licensing. In a nutshell, once you activate an OEM copy of Windows on a computer, it's tied to that computer forever. So, you are not allowed to purchase a new computer and then throw the old one in the trash and re-use the same copy of the OS on the new computer. That's why the OEM copies cost less. Of course, you can pay more for retail and if you change computers frequently enough, it might be a better choice. It still doesn't provide the ability to run on more than 1 computer at a time.

You can (with the OEM license) however add hardware to the machine, like new/more RAM, new video card, new network card, etc. At some point, (if you change out the mobo usually), Windows will often complain that it's a new computer. This is usually rectified with a call to Microsoft explaining what you did and they reactive it for you over the phone. But with minor and incremental upgrades along you way...you don't have problems.

So, I just recently built a new computer and I purchased a copy of Vista OEM with a free upgrade to Win 7 OEM. I can put this copy on my Quad Core Intel box that I built. But I know that I won't be able to buy a new computer, with a new case, new mobo, new core i7 CPU, new hard drive and new video card and reactivate that same copy of Windows on the new machine. If I wanted to do that...I would have gone with a retail copy of the OS. But I can add a second hard drive, change my optical drive, put in more RAM and change a video card and I don't think I would have any issues. And like I said, if I did, I could always call MS and they would take care of it for me.

 

[darkassain]

If he were to buy a MSDN subscription would that include dev tools along with any OS/Office Software?

if you are going to college (this is directed to codfish) you can see if you can get Visual Studio for free thru dreamspark...(thats until you get to college though...)
you might also check as some HS's might have this program...

 

[Muad Dib]

Thank you for a clear cut explanation of the options available!

Well his explanation is as clear as the MSDN site.

Theres are several tiers of product offerrings.

On of the "basic" ones is Visual Studio + MSDN + right to run ONE copy of an OS and the Office tools on ONE machine.

Check it out yourself. It is also pretty pricey.

They have a Visual Studio Express version (s) that is free which may be fine for a person who want learn and is just starting out.

 

[pparks1]

Oh yeah, also don't forget that with your Technet subscription comes a yearly renewal which is $249. And I believe that if you don't renew the product, you aren't legally allowed to further "evaluate" the products.

So, if MS doesn't have the next desktop OS out for 3 more years, it would be ($349 for 1st year, $249 for second year, $249 for third year) ~$850. Or instead, you could get an OEM copy of Vista with Free upgrade to Win7 for $189 or a Full Retail copy of Win7 Home Premium pre-order for $199 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716. With either option, you would be set on this computer for as long as you wanted to run that OS.

 

[Muad Dib]

Oh yeah, also don't forget that with your Technet subscription comes a yearly renewal which is $249. And I believe that if you don't renew the product, you aren't legally allowed to further "evaluate" the products.

The evaluation copies and the evaluation product keys continue to function beyond the subscription period.

 

[pparks1]

The evaluation copies and the evaluation product keys continue to function beyond the subscription period.

Of course they continue to function and remain activated....but the fact remains that I believe you are in violation of the end-user license agreement for both MSDN and TechNet to continue "evaluating" products for which you "used" to have a subscription to that has lapsed. I know, I know...playing by the rules does suck. Hence the reason that I do love Linux and concept of free and open software so much. No amount of counter arguments has ever swayed my opinion...as I don't think you can fairly compare products unless you are in full compliance with the licensing restrictions and paid the assoiciated costs.

 

[Zidane24]

Well his explanation is as clear as the MSDN site.

Theres are several tiers of product offerrings.

On of the "basic" ones is Visual Studio + MSDN + right to run ONE copy of an OS and the Office tools on ONE machine.

Check it out yourself. It is also pretty pricey.

They have a Visual Studio Express version (s) that is free which may be fine for a person who want learn and is just starting out.

I admit I never bothered to go read it My IT department at my college lets me have any software I want with a vaild license + OS software about 3 months after release. I wish I could be getting a download/key tomorrow at the release event!

 

[poin2]

HI.

To make this short and simple:
-My dad doesn't want me subscribing to TechNet for an unknown reason.
-I need to convince him to let me subscribe.
-It would save me ALOT of money considering how much Windows 7 Ultimate is, plus the other applications I can get with this subscription.
-He knows I'm into computers and he knows that I'm currently interested in programming(C#).

I'll be paying with my own money.
The subscription is $249.99 + tax because of a promo/coupon code. That price beats Windows 7 Ultimate(Full) BY FAR.

How can I convince my dad to let me subscribe WITH MY OWN MONEY to TechNet?

You might want to ask what the reason is he doesn't want you subscribing. I'd suspect it's not entirely "unknown," especially if you're looking to install Ultimate on "many computers" as you indicated elsewhere.

You certainly don't need all the features of Ultimate. It also doesn't sound like you're truly reasoning from an educational / evaluation perspective, but almost entirely from a financial one and without regard for the actual individual licensing purposes of things like Technet.

You (and your family) would almost certainly be just fine with one of the Home Premium upgrade family packs, and/or perhaps a copy of Professional. And that route is less expensive than what you'd seek and won't lead you into licensing issues, either.

If you truly want to learn your computer science, you don't need Ultimate / Technet for the kinds of things you'd need to be learning now. If you want features like BitLocker, now's the time to learn more about open source stuff like TrueCrypt, rather than simply using the mass-market basic stuff.

And if you're truly interested in educational-type things, you're in a situation where you'd be eligible for academic resources and discounts on things (including occasionally for Technet), and your time and resources would be much better spent looking into those and familiarizing yourself with how they work.

Look into the MSDNAA stuff which is more geared towards students and academic settings. The Technet stuff is generally more for IT professionals.

(And yes, you're indeed misunderstanding OEM licensing, too, as already described.)