Create duplicate O/S installation - easiest way?

[martinlest]

I have (or soon will) a new system for gaming. The drives I've chosen are 2 x 480GB SSDs, each with a smaller partition for the O/S and a larger one for the programmes (MS FS9 on one, FSX on the other).

As I have had an SSD die on me before, I want to make this setup a bit more fail-safe by having the O/S (Win7 x64 - or it may be Win10 x64 in the end, but I guess that won't effect the basics of this question?) cloned on the 2nd SSD, in the smaller parτition (so if one SSD does die, I can still boot using the other).

What's the easiest way to achieve this? Make an image of the O/S partition on the first SSD (when everything is installed and running OK) and install it to the second SSD? Or is there a better way?

What's then the easiest way to set up a dual boot screen at startup so that I always have the option of which instance of the O/S to boot into?

Many thanks,

Martin

 

[GokAy]

You don't need 2 SSDs to be honest. And no cloning is needed either, instead image backup and if anything goes wrong you can just recall the image. Don't waste your money on a hypothetical failure (keep it in your pocket) and buy a new one if you really have to.

So I would get:
- SSD for OS and large games
- HDD for data and other games
- HDD for backups of SSD and data HDD

 

[gregrocker]

Our favorite here is Macrium Imaging - Windows 7 Help Forums which is as easy as installing it (or using the boot disk which you should make anyway) to save a backup image of your completed setup to an external hard drive or another hard drive.

Then if the SSD ever fails replace it, boot the macrium disk to apply the image as shown in tutorial.

 

[martinlest]

Thanks for the replies.

In fact I have a lot of data to fit onto just one 480GB SSD, it would be 90% full immediately by the time I add my Flightsim programmes, so two is ideal: Flight simulator (and the rig is just for MS FS9 & FSX) reads from scenery files, terrain files, aircraft files (Process Monitor shows the huge number of files loaded in any given second) and I'd like all this on an SSD, not an HDD. Performance by way of FPS may not increase much (but with an i7-4790K at 4.00GHz that should be fine), but loading times will.

I often use Win7's own image copy facility to make an image to an external HDD. Is this for some reason not also useful to do what I want here? I really do want a dual boot (into cloned O/Ss) rather than just the option to restore from an image stored elsewhere (I will still back up sometimes to the external HDD).

Thanks again.

 

[GokAy]

How much space needed for each of those games? (I am curious ) OS will need about 50-70 GB, most of the time even less, considering future growth and pagefile,hiberfil etc. And best to have 25% free space on an SSD as a rule of thumb.

I don't know if Windows built-in backup can clone a drive, you would still need Macrium or a similar program, and my understanding is that it is not a good idea to have cloned drives attached to the PC all the time (they will both be marked active and such). What you want is not called a dual-boot though, to clarify. My 50GB OS partition takes 10 minutes to restore and backups take 15 minutes tops (75GB - 2 partitions Windows 7 and 10 - when verification is on, verify takes longer than actually backing up ). Don't forget a total SSD failure is not the only reason why you would need a backup.

Simply put: Best method would be a small enough C, that you backup regularly (have a couple of generations). And file sync copy of your games to another HDD (FreeFileSync or similar program) whenever your files change a bit.

However, your PC, your money

 

[martinlest]

Hi... Well, out-of-the-box, not that much, but with over ten years of addons, well my FS9 installation is about 200GBs (terrain data files are huge, for instance). Plus FSX.. Yes, it'd all go onto one SSD I suppose, but I am ready to pay for an extra SSD to split things as I said. It's not so expensive to do that... But I could I suppose have a second SSD at just 120GBs, that would cut costs a bit. I was imagining 80GBs for the O/S partitions, leaving 2x400GBs for the two FS programmes. I'll see how much I save by having the 2nd SSD smaller... I do back up (file copy) my data partitions regularly - every week or so (I wrote my own batch script which automatically synchronises the back-up with existing data); no, not at all just in case of HDD/SSD failure. I also make an new image of the C drive to an external HDD every few months...

I believe I have Macrium already somewhere (haven't really used it). I also have Partition Manager, which will doubtless do the same job. As I am abroad, as I said, I can't check that at the moment...

Not sure there's any issue with more than one active boot partition? So long as you get a boot option screen at start-up. My old FS laptop, for which this is a replacement, dual booted between Win7 x64 and Win XP x64 with no problems.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[GokAy]

With what you had on your old laptop, you had only 1 active partition, which dual booted.

The scenario you put forward here is 2 identical (hence active) partitions and one OS.

As an example, Newegg Samsung EVO pricing:
120 GB - 75 USD
250 GB - 100 USD
500 GB - 183 USD

So I would get 1x250GB (price difference with 120GB is little with respect to space gained) + 1x500 GB. And put a bit more on top of what I save and get a backup HDD (3TB or so) that would hold everything.

 

[martinlest]

With what you had on your old laptop, you had only 1 active partition, which dual booted. The scenario you put forward here is 2 identical (hence active) partitions and one OS.

Oh, OK! So would that scenario actually cause issues? Can I not dual boot from two partitions/identical O/Ss in the same way? Like what problems might there be? I assume I'd have a boot menu at startup just the same asking which instance of the O/S I want to go into?

To add a second 120GB SSD costs £51, a 240GB is £76 and a 480GB SSD £152; so yes, the 240GB would be the best option.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this thread...

 

[GokAy]

Hmm, maybe I am not exactly right, just checked for this again (I searched a bit about this when I set my SSD few months ago, I was cloning the drive, and remember reading a clone drive being plugged in all times is not a good idea. I have switched to imaging alone since then)

Anyway, Can you have 2 active partitions in the same Win 7 box ? - Microsoft Community

Best is you can try what you want and remember this conversation if any issues arise..

Edit: Wanted to add, you might have to change the boot order in BIOS, or use the Boot Menu, to boot from the clone drive. You won't get a OS select menu with clones.

 

[martinlest]

You won't get a OS select menu with clones.

Oh...

Well, I'll keep Googling and thinking what's best...

 

[gregrocker]

You can clone with Macrium.

Then use the BIOS Boot menu key to trigger booting the secondary hard drive, after setting the primary first to boot in BIOS.

If this is not satisfactory you can install EasyBCD to the primary to add the secondary on the Add OS tab to create a Windows Boot Menu.

You can use SyncToy to sync the data folders on both drives, in either or both directions, even archive changes.

There is no way to sync programs and settings changes. Easy Transfer will transfer files and settings from old to new drives but settings are a corruption path so I recommend never importing them to a pristine install, or at all.

 

[GokAy]

I thought of EasyBCD too, but hold myself writing it as I don't know how it would behave with 2 active partitions. And it may act funny when you clone once again after editing with EasyBCD?

 

[gregrocker]

The Active flag is only useful to point to the partition intended to boot the OS. With multiple hard drive OS's its always best to install them separately with the other hard drive unplugged. This way each is issued its System boot files as signified by the System Active flags (System seen only when that drive is booted), and each is independently bootable on its own if you remove the other.

If you instead leave the other OS hard drives plugged in during a new OS install to another hard drive, the installer only edits the boot files on the first hard drive's System partition and doesn't issue the OS its own set of boot files so that it is independently bootable. To later remove the System hard drive will render this install unbootable until it is marked Active and Startup Repair - Run 3 Separate Times with all other hard drives unplugged so they can't interfere or spoof the repair.

So the optimal configuration is to keep the other hard drives unplugged and later set preferred first to boot in BIOS setup, trigger the others using one-time BIOS Boot menu key.

Now some users don't like this method and prefer a Windows Boot menu. In this case its still best to install with the other drives unplugged and then later use EasyBCD from primary HD to add the other OS's to a Windows Boot Menu. In this case EasyBCD leaves the other drives' System Active boot partitions in place so that they remain independently bootable, while only editing the BCD on the System drive you run it upon.

In the case of cloning or imaging, the drives should already be independently bootable by including the MBR, Track0 and Active flag (as well as always Auto drive letter selection) if offered those options which are automated in Macrium. So you only need to add the clone from the Primary (first to boot) hard drive using EasyBCD.

I hope this answers fully. Feel free to ask back any questions. It's nice to have someone else interested in this stuff. It is out of respect for your abilities that I am including so much detail.

 

[martinlest]

Thanks a lot for the replies, and all the detail Greg.

I thought I had mentioned EasyBCD here (I downloaded it a few weeks ago in readiness!), but I see I didn't. No matter. Great minds think alike (though yours is far greater than mine in this domain, Greg!!).

It'll have to wait till I am back in the UK, in September, as I said, and have the new rig, but I'll post back here any questions. The theory you explain is OK, but how to do it in practice I can't quite envisage yet!

Quote: "Now some users don't like this method and prefer a Windows Boot menu. In this case its still best to install with the other drives unplugged and then later use EasyBCD from primary HD to add the other OS's to a Windows Boot Menu. In this case EasyBCD leaves the other drives' System Active boot partitions in place so that they remain independently bootable, while only editing the BCD on the System drive you run it upon.

In the case of cloning or imaging, the drives should already be independently bootable by including the MBR, Track0 and Active flag (as well as always Auto drive letter selection) if offered those options which are automated in Macrium. So you only need to add the clone from the Primary (first to boot) hard drive using EasyBCD. "

I am used to a boot screen when there is more than one O/S choice, so would ideally like to see that. Is there any chance Greg, when you have time and inclination (should the two ever coincide) you could write out a step-by-step on how you'd achieve this. I really can't visualise the process, though I guess when I have the PC it will be clearer. I don't want to mess things up and have to resort to reinstalling C drive image backups if I can possibly avoid it.

Thanks again.