Data in the Cloud cannot be guaranteed to be secure

[jimbo45]

Hi everyone
While This news snippet concerns a slightly different topic
but :

You can see what *Could* happen if the people who own the servers have legal problems with content.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16787486

-- users could be prevented from gaining access to LEGITIMATE data -- or at least they could be forced to wait until lengthy court issues had been settled before regaining access.

I think the case of data left on the megaupload servers should warn people about what can happen to data when it's entrusted to "online servers" whatever the content.

I don't have sympathy for illegal file sharing --that's not the point of this post -- but that a Court can seize data off a server and prevent users from accessing their own data stored on it.

Governments can make all sorts of rules such as "National Security" to seize a server -- even if the allegations are totally unfounded it could take a considerable time for users to regain access.

If this sort of practice can happen in the USA just imagine other places where "Democracy" isn't so open.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Britton30]

I agree Jimbo, but the bigger question in my mind is how can my government arrest and prosecute foreign nationals? Frankly I think it's none of our business. We are guilty of illegal seizure in my opinion and maybe the owners of personal data will have some recourse against the FBI stormtroopers.

And there are still Filesonic, Uploading, Extabit, TinyPic, Photobucket, etc. ,are they going to try to take them all down?

 

[seekermeister]

The government was not originally designed to be the watch dog and blood hound of any person, either individually or corporately. To prosecute a crime requires evidence. Unless that crime is against the government itself (like treason, etc.), that evidence must be presented by the accuser, not the government. Nor is it the government's job to acquire evidence for the accuser, unless it has already been established that a crime has been committed, but not a crime by some unknown person, but by a specific individual or group, which is clearly defined prior to any investigation. The government is not intended to be a pawn in anyone's pocket...as it is now becoming.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I read an article that seemed to be saying, the US Government is going to destroy ALL of the Megaupload data (illegal or otherwise)!
Megaupload data 'to be destroyed': Could feds swoop on file-sharers? | ZDNet

If that is true, it proves that these new laws (Governments are trying to introduce) have nothing whatsoever to do with piracy.

Nor is it the government's job to acquire evidence for the accuser, unless it has already been established that a crime has been committed, but not a crime by some unknown person, but by a specific individual or group, which is clearly defined prior to any investigation.

Ever notice how the people that state that "the Government shouldn't regulate businesses", are the same people who demand that "the Government must enforce copyright"?

 

[cluberti]

No, probably falls under the same sorts of clauses that allow the government to do what it likes with seized property used in the commission of a crime once the criminal case is over and the evidence is no longer needed - the government destroys cars, resells homes, and apparently can destroy servers hosting data. Welcome to your 20th century government handling 21st century issues, I suppose.

 

[lehnerus2000]

The trouble is ...

No, probably falls under the same sorts of clauses that allow the government to do what it likes with seized property used in the commission of a crime once the criminal case is over and the evidence is no longer needed - the government destroys cars, resells homes, and apparently can destroy servers hosting data. Welcome to your 20th century government handling 21st century issues, I suppose.

The trouble is that is like the Government bulldozing an entire suburb, because one house hosted a drug lab.

I hope everyone who didn't have illegal content, launch a giant class action suit against the Government.

 

[cluberti]

Actually, it's not, but I get your drift. It'd be more akin to destroying an apartment building because of a lab in one apartment, but as I said, 20th century ideas governing 21st century realities - by the time the government catches up, it'll probably be the 22nd century and we will lather, rinse, and repeat with something else.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Agreed

Actually, it's not, but I get your drift. It'd be more akin to destroying an apartment building because of a lab in one apartment,

They don't care how much "collateral damage" is caused.

...
The only problem was that the three enclosures worth of servers apparently included the sites for many more customers than just the one being investigated and DigitalOne is responding to the outages reported by those customers by letting them know that the FBI has those servers and there is no way that they can check on them, or do anything else with them, for that matter.

Despite their interest in just a single DigitalOne client, the FBI’s actions have affected “tens” of clients, according to DigitalOne CEO Segej Ostroumow. The FBI has not yet commented on their actions nor have they provided any way for the customers they were not interested in to recover their server data.

ZDNet
FBI throws a scare into datacenter service providers | ZDNet

but as I said, 20th century ideas governing 21st century realities - by the time the government catches up, it'll probably be the 22nd century and we will lather, rinse, and repeat with something else.

Agreed.

 

[V43L1N]

Here's hoping for a class action suit...

I've used Megaupload for legit purposes for years.
While I understand that Megaupload was a dot com domain, and therefore technically under US jurisdiction, how can they justify arresting foreign citizens?

As an American citizen and taxpayer it is infuriating to see our federal agencies becoming puppets for the likes of the MPAA/RIAA. I'll be adding my name to any class action suit that arises, however i doubt it will ever see the light of day. Maybe I'll get lucky enough to get my taxes back that were spent on this "crusade".

 

[bobtran]

This is THE Achilles heel of ALL cloud services and in the rush to embrace what has been heralded as the next great coming of the Internet people have failed to recognize this fact....whenever you allow/contract with someone else to maintain your data your are at that point vulnerable based on their performance or lack of performance not to mention reliance on their level of expertise as relates to security.....You always get what you pay for, there is a reason that the lowest bidder is the lowest bidder, a corner (or a few corners) will be cut somewhere.

Keep your data under your control, back it up and have a recovery plan in place....you will have no reason to loose sleep if you just remember these few steps. You can always share it in different ways but you can't always get it back once it is gone.

I just hope this incident will make people and corporations think twice about this rush to outsourcing of data storage but I doubt it will make much difference...when someone thinks they can do it cheaper by outsourcing then hell will freeze over before they admit to the downsides, having a recovery plan costs the money that outsourcing saves.....again, there is a reason that outsourcing costs less up front...it is the back-end costs that are cut and you never know until you need those back-end services unless you are professionally paranoid like most DBA's and Network Security Analysts.

 

[ShadowMario3]

Normally, I wouldn't support the arrests of the MegaUpload owners. After seeing how much money laundering they did, and how they lied to the government and movie associations about taking down illegal links (they would only take down one, not all) though, I'm glad the owners got arrested.

Also a reason as to why I wouldn't trust my important documents to cloud servers, mainly because most people would use them for illegal things. I have my hard drives (and email I guess...) to keep my files.

 

[Layback Bear]

This might be of interist.
Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Win7User512]

I agree Jimbo, but the bigger question in my mind is how can my government arrest and prosecute foreign nationals?

It probably would have been more difficult, but one or more servers were located in Virginia, U.S.A.

Most were located in Hong Kong. But since at least one was in the U.S. it is easier for the FBI, DOJ, etc to get it.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
This isn't quite correct

-- Seizure of a Server isn't actually dependant on the COST or even the QUALITY of the service.

If the Govt (of whatever country) decides that "Due to issues of xxxxx" -- usually National Security --- we are going to SEIZE the server then there isn't much you can do other than wait (or initiate) some Court action which could take AGES to resolve even if there is NOTHING on the server that actually is breaking either the law (in that country) or contravening National Security.

I'm against also where ONE country decides to arrest / extradite citizens of another country where NO LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN in the country where extradition has been sought.

A typical example is the ongoing case of the British guy wanted by the USA even though he had done NOTHING currently against UK Law.

Other countries that have often done this type of stuff are Israel (Mossad particularly in removing people they don't like -- even if one feels Israel *might* have a case International Law should be followed) and Russia.

(Countries should recognize the fact that laws ARE different in different places and whether or not these countries like other people's law they HAVE to learn to live with it}.

I'm always amazed that when INNOCENT people are arrested by the FBI in the USA they are carried off "In Handcuffs" before any proof of innocence or guilt has been proved. If Innocent how often do the FBI ever pay up for "Wrongful arrest" or " Stress" -- the USA as a "Democracy" exempts a lot of FBI action from being sued in civil courts.

I'm not against LEGITIMATE seizure of data but the "Get out of Jail Mantra" for a lot of governments seems to be that old hardy perennial "National Security".

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

Megaupload Update

Here are some ZDNet links.

Summary: The site’s uncertain fate serves as a reminder that SMBs should carefully consider the viability of cloud storage and backup services they use — or they could lose important company data.

Why small businesses should care about the Megaupload debacle | ZDNet

Summary: The hosting company that provides service to shuttered file-sharing service Megaupload said today that data will remain in safe hands for now.

"No imminent data loss" expected, Megaupload host says | ZDNet

 

[Layback Bear]

If their is a question all one has to remember is any thing in a cloud you do have not control of security.

 

[Trucidation]

Not to mention reliability.

Microsoft's Azure cloud down and out for 8 hours ? The Register
Microsoft Azure outage takes down govt CloudStore

The various **AAs aren't the only ones who want to be able to rain on your parade either.
http://www.information-age.com/chan...p-takedown-law-hurts-uk-cloud-readiness.thtml

 

[Colonel Travis]

Not to mention reliability

No kidding. Anyone who says, "they couldn't understand how such an important system could go down" and "this should never happen", after something like this does happen, was obviously duped into a false sense of security and does not need to be in charge of something that big in the first place. The Titanic would never sink, space shuttles would never blow up, blabbedy blah, blah.

Idiots.

 

[Palindari]

More than makes me a little hesitant of using either Google Apps or Office 365 - not that either company will go tits up in the near future - but "cloud" computing is so vast... you never know what could happen.

 

[logicearth]

Aye and your local hard drive is any more reliable. Silly people.

As for Windows Azure going down...it didn't only the management dashboard because of certificate issues. Leap years got its claws in the certificate causing issues for connecting. But no data was lost. * Azure wasn't the only to have certificate issues on the 29th.