Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Problem (Clicks - Pops)

[lefteror]

I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 sound card that has been tested on Windows XP (with a relatively old system : Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM etc) and it works perfectly fine.

I bought a new PC a few weeks ago (Intel i5 -750 @ 2.66 GHz, 4GB RAM) and I have installed Windows 7 Professional 32-bit on it. The sound card works with FireWire (6-pin, no AC power needed). I have installed the latest update for Windows 7, for the drivers of the sound card. It has been recognized and everything about it's connectivity is -almost- fine, but when I play a simple youtube video or a song on Windows Media Player, it's highly possible that the sound will click or pop.
I e-mailed the company and for now they think it's a resource/conflict issue and they suggest that I optimize my OS, such as enabling DMA access to all IDE channels, minimizing the use of CPU for visual enhancement (such as Aero etc) and even shutting down my antivirus software and the Windows Firewall. Also they asked from me to run a test for latency and send them back the results.
Does this have to do anything with resources, since my system is brand new? Any opinion expressed is highly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[szupeter]

Hi Lefteror,
Hope you are still active in this forum.
I read your issue with WIN 7 and Pro24.
Well I am having the same problems, but I have a PRO14.

My new laptop is exactly as yours: Intel i5 -750 @ 2.66 GHz, 4GB RAM

I installed everything well on the PC, FW connection is OK for starting up, but after a while I have a drop out.

Focusrite requested a lot to set on the PC, like you said:
"optimize my OS, such as enabling DMA access to all IDE channels, minimizing the use of CPU for visual enhancement (such as Aero etc) and even shutting down my antivirus software and the Windows Firewall. Also they asked from me to run a test for latency and send them back the results. "

Yesterday I sent DPC test results to focusrite.

If you would help me out what was the solution in your case, I might save some time, and could get on quick with the PRO14.

I even installed 2.4b2 beta version....

In my DELL PC I have Ricoh FW on the motherboard. Do you think I need to buy an Express Card - FW card - that uses TI chipset?
Is that a solution, or can it be solved with a talented IT guy.

Thanks.

 

[lefteror]

Hey szupeter,

I have to tell you, I did virtually nothing about it. I'm really annoyed by the suggestions of Focusrite like turning off Aero and stuff so I didn't change anything. Nevertheless, the problem seemed to fade out gradually. For some time now I have no problems with my PRO 24. Maybe it's the new Mix Control version, I really don't know...

Best of luck!

 

[szupeter]

HI Lefteror,

Thanks for your feedback.
I am still trying and trying.... look to be solved my drop out issue yesterday... but this morning my AC adaptor pissed - I smellt electonic burning???
As I have no 6pin FW possibility on my laptop I can't proceed.
I really need luck....

 

[TripleXbeatz]

It definitely sounds like an issue with your FW chipset.

in the meantime have you tried this.....
(taken from Focusrite website under downloads for Pro 24


"PC Users

This release requires the use of the Windows Legacy FireWire Driver on Windows 7 64-bit. Windows 7 32-bit users should however use the default Windows 7 FireWire driver."

instructions can be found here.
Are Focusrite's FireWire Products Compatible With Windows 7? .: Focusrite Answerbase

To be honest, I just found THIS post having done a search for Saffire Pro 24 issues.
I am not having any issues, but as one of those "Talented IT guys" mentioned earlier in the thread, I was just preemptively searching for known issues, in the rare event that I experience one, to know about it before hand.
That said, I saw your problem, and having previous experience with it in particular, I signed up here to answer you.

Let me know how you make out.
xXx


EDIT: p.s. if you have not seen this yet, I suggest you check it out.
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/var/attachments/Focusrite_IEEE_1394_compatibility.pdf

 

[fireberd]

I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40. It too is Firewire and like most Firewire devices uses a "DICE" Firewire chipset in the device. Basically you need a T.I. chipset in the PC. There is one other that will work but from discussions on the Sonar forum and gearslutz forum if you don't have a T.I. chipset it's iffy if it will work or work correctly.

Focusrite, as noted, says you must use the Legacy Firewire driver for Win 7. I've tried it with the native driver and did get dropouts. I now have the Legacy driver installed and no more dropout problems. I am using my Saffire Pro 40 with Sonar X1b.

Popping and clicking can be caused by many problems. We see many posts about this in the audio section here, and on other PC forums such as the Dell users forum. The device driver is one issue, WI-fi is a major contributor to popping and clicking. Video drivers are another possibility. And others. It's not a "one fix for all".

 

[TripleXbeatz]

Nice response Fireberd.

As most now know, DPC latency checker is a great way to see which devices may be causing system hiccups. (w/ WIFI, Video, throttling, etc.) And ironically, all my experience with that is from having dealt with my own sound card issues (where M Audio's drivers are concerned for the entire Delta series)... which prompted me to switch interfaces after a couple YEARS of intermittent issues. As a result, like I said I was preemptively searching for issue with my new device, the Pro 24, JUST TO MAKE SURE I wouldnt have issues.

That said, despite the DICEII chipset these interfaces seem to be rock solid, drivers and all, provided you use a T.I. FW controller, and follow Focusrite's published technical advice. HOWEVER, to my knowledge, NOT EVERY win7 pc MUST switch to the Legacy FW driver. It's my understanding that you only need to use the Legacy driver in the event that the Standard one is being employed and resulting in problems i.e., pops&clicks, etc.

On my system I am using the Standard Driver, not the legacy, and have no issues. And yes my FW chipset is T.i.

 

[fireberd]

Triplexbeatz, When I was using Vista 64 bit, I was using the legacy firewire driver. When I installed Win 7 (on a new hard drive) I forgot and didn't change the firewire driver. I used the default firewire driver in my Win 7 64 bit system for quite a while without problems (I have an Intel M/B with the T.I. chipset). I ran into a problem one day, and unfortunately during a recording session, with dropouts. I thought I had set the driver to the legacy but didn't. I changed it to legacy and the problem was fixed and I finished the recording session with minimal interruption.

I also have an MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R USB interface recording unit. But it is relegated to "backup" as the preamps in the Ultra 8R are not near the quality of the preamps in the Saffire Pro 40. The preamps in the Pro 40 are what I would call transparent as what is input is what is recorded. With the Ultra 8R, it changes the tone slightly to a brighter (more treble) tone. I had recorded a steel guitar track (a clean guitar track no distortion) and had to fix a spot on the track. Between the original track recording and when I went to fix it (about a month) the Saffire Pro 40 developed a problem (the power on/off switch) so I used the Ultra 8R to fix the spot and there was an obvious difference in the "fixed" spot. Fortunately Focusrite sent me a new switch and I got the Saffire Pro 40 working again and fixed it with the Pro 40 and the tone was just like the original.

 

[TripleXbeatz]

gotchya. Makes sense. I know the Pre quality and converters will obviously make a difference.. But I bet in the context of a single audio take, the use of two pre's could become pretty noticeable. cool way to compare actually.

As for the driver thing, Ill have to keep that in mind. Im also using an Intel Board with a TI fw chip as well. Running 2.2 mixcontrol, set to short, at 256 buffer, and just did a Reason to Cubase rewire test with excellent results. So I am pleased.

Since everything is working, I plan on leaving it alone. if i begin to experience any issues, the Driver type legacy/standard issue is the first thing I would try. Obviously best results are achieved with a TI chipset being used. That said, since not everyone is forced to use the legacy driver I wonder what the variables are between the device and the fw chipset(along with whatever other variables exist) that allow some users to get away with using the standard driver without problems, like myself.

 

[fireberd]

Like I said, mine worked OK for over a year with the default driver and never had a problem - until one day about 4 months ago. The only thing that I can think of that caused this could have been some Microsoft update. There wasn't any hardware changes.

 

[TripleXbeatz]

Like I said, mine worked OK for over a year with the default driver and never had a problem - until one day about 4 months ago. The only thing that I can think of that caused this could have been some Microsoft update. There wasn't any hardware changes.

yeah I know.. thats why like I said "Ill have to keep that in mind"
lol

thankfully no problems here.. Just educating myself... for 4 months from now what might happen! hahahaha

 

[lefteror]

It's been a long time since this post, but I have to say, I did a clean install of windows 7 and the problem came back. Well I finally disabled my wireless network adapter by Belkin, first impression is really good, much better response. (Because without disabling it, I have problems listening to songs even on VLC).

 

[TripleXbeatz]

Normally I don't revive threads this OLD. But considering how i just did a google search for Saffire Pro 24 pops n clicks now that I am experiencing them all of a sudden with my OWN Pro 24, and found THIS very thread that once upon a time I commented on when I had NO issues.. I figured why not.

I have no idea wtf is going on with mine now. NOTHING has changed on my system at all, with the exception of installing the driver and SW for the MPC Renaissance, and some windows updates. That's it. Yet now I get pops n clicks on My Pro 24. Even just using it as my default windows audio device, which I never used to do. I only set it to def to test it with basic windows tasks to confirm the issue. Usually I send windows audio out of my Delta 44 sound card, and use the Pro 24 for Reason, Maschine, Cubase, Pro tools, and now recently the Renaissance. I have a mixer that allows me to route the outs for each audio device to the mixer, and then out of the mixer to my monitors. After adding the Ren I noticed the pops n clicks.

Wondering if this has something to do with the drivers for the Ren? Somehow?
Also I know there can be issues in the registry once you have a specific Number of audio/midi devices installed.
Like there are a finite number of slots you can use for device drivers, and if you uninstall/reinstall drivers sometimes they do not fully get removed, and those installs stack up and cause issues?
Something I read, not sure if there is any truth too it.

None the less, Anyone having this issue, or a similar one with these devices on 7? If so CHIME IN.
I have tried updating to the most recent Mix control sw, to no avail.
Need input!

 

[lefteror]

@TripleXbeatz

I never fully understood what caused the clicks and pops in my case, but they seem to have stopped. Of course I had to make some minor sacrifices... No Aero themes, no USB WiFi adapter (because yes, things seem to work better when I disable it). That doesn't mean necessarily that the cause of clicks and pops was Aero and the adapter, but since they stopped I won't occupy myself any further with it. You could start by reducing the resources used by windows for graphics etc and see what happens. Hope I helped even a little bit.

P.S.: On MacOS X not a single click... not even once.

 

[fireberd]

Wi-Fi is a known cause of pops and clicks in audio, whether just the PC audio or some audio interface unit.

Since my old posts, my Saffire Pro 40 died and I replaced it with a USB connected Roland Octa-Capture. A major improvement in operation and lower latency. I liked the Saffire Pro 40 but the USB connected Octa-Capture works much better. I also have a USB connected MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R (my backup unit) that I use both with Sonar X2 and ProTools MP9 and it too has lower latency than the firewire devices.

 

[TripleXbeatz]

WOW its dope to see we are all still here, and still answering the thread. Cool little bit of peace of mind lol.

I may have left it out, but I've been doing PC repair for the better part of 12 years. So when it comes to troubleshooting stuff like this I can more than hold my own. I usually leave that out though as I find it limits the replies I get. And even someone without a definitive answer may set us on the right track to discovering the cause of an issue by simply recommending something they did, or heard.

That said, I am sure its not Wifi, and wouldn't even presume it has anything to do with USB devices at all. I have run DPClatency checker, and never have any spikes there, so I have more or less ruled out the PCI bus, IRQ conflicts, bus saturation, etc.(for the most part)
The one thing I have tried that appears to be working so far, is reducing the setting of "firewire driver latency" from short to medium. It seems I get either much less pops n clicks, to the point that its difficult to detect them (fewer are father between), OR I am now getting none at all when set to medium for the FW driver latency.

The real question is WHY. This setting has been on short since I purchased this device around the time I first posted on this thread(feb2012 i think). The only substantial change on my end has been the addition of the MPC renaissance and its driver and sw. Which is USB. My PC only has a single FW port which is a T.I., and that is in use by the Focusrite.

So yeah, not sure what is causing me to have to increase the FW driver latency setting. That obviously diminished the pops & clicks it seems, but also increases the latency. So every VSTi I am triggering is affected, the MPC Ren is affected. Its counter intuitive, and a move in the OPPOSITE direction.
Still want to know why! lol

 

[fireberd]

I've only been in electronics and computer repair since 1962. In the early 70's I was the Ampeg factory repair tech in Nashville.

However, on the Dell forums, on the audio section of this one and on the Sonar forums, we have found that Wi-Fi can be a contributing factor to pops and clicks.

 

[TripleXbeatz]

Wow 1962? Well you got me beat by a long shot!

I actually got into computers in 1998 via working in a recording studio, and being the only one with any knowledge at all to handle upgrades, bad drives, etc. Which then led troubleshooting DAWs, and then finally basic consumer repair, laptops, motherboard swaps and repairs, soldering caps, etc.

I agree with you that Wifi can certainly cause issues. I can recall back in the day when 56K was still cool, we always preached keeping your DAW and your basic use computer with internet access SEPARATE.

In this case, I have ruled out wifi a couple of ways. One was to completely unplug it from the computer and being able to duplicate these pops n clicks. The second way was to run the wifi adapter, and also run DPC Latency checker concurrently, and check for spikes that would affect the performance of other devices sharing the PCI bus, or even the same IRQ. Unfortunately, I was able to duplicate the issue in both instances.

The only thing I have been able to do to temporarily prevent these pops n clicks from happening, is to set the FW driver latency from short to medium. That works for me for NOW. But I DO need to find out WHY I have to set it that way to get any satisfaction to begin with.

So onward we go. lol

P.s. I never actually owned an Ampeg, but back in the late 80's early 90's it was my dream amp. That and an Ibanez S540STLD. two dreams that never came true, lol. Ampeg used to ROCK tho!

 

[fireberd]

I could only get my Saffire Pro 40 latency down to about 11ms. With my USB devices I can get in the 4 to 6 ms range.

My main axe is Pedal Steel Guitar, with a POD X3 for effects only. My amp is a GK MB200 with an Emminence EPS-15C neo-dymium magnet speaker. I have a Fender Telecaster and a Les Paul, that I mostly use in my studio.

 

[TripleXbeatz]

Yeah I've done some tests and taken screen shots of the difference between using the Saffire ASIO and MPC REN ASIO drivers, the latency difference between them, and the latency difference between short and medium settings on the FW driver latency settings. The diff between short and medium is minimal. Like 1-2ms at 512buffer 44.1K. But I still wanna dig into to find out why all of a sudden using the Short settings produces pops n clicks. My PC specs are the same and are listed in my sig. Im due to update, but even still a Q6600 and 6GB ram is nothing to shake a stick at, so to speak.

My current guitar rig is an Ibanez S520EX, with duncan JB and Jazz pups, and a Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve, with a Celestion G12K100 in place of the V30. And a few pedals. But I don't play nearly as much as I used to. Only when I lay down the occasional guitar line in a few productions here and there.