Solved getting multiple computers, do I need a switch or a router?

[Diosoth]

I just bought a used refurbished Dell PC with XP installed, and am also considering a Raspberry Pi. Provided I would want to hook all 3(well, 2- I have 2 monitors and can only run 2 at a time at most) to the internet so I'm not using one at a time, would I need a switch or a router for this? We'll assume I'm not setting up a LAN for the devices to communicate direct to each other, I just want them online together.

Switches cost less but I don't want to buy it and find it's not what I need.

 

[RyanGEI]

Hello Diosoth,

Most home use routers come with 4 available ports for connectivity, so as long as you have 4 or less devices to connect via hard line, you don't need a switch.

Also if you prefer to avoid using a switch you can purchase a WiFi router and use WiFi adapters on any piece of equipment beyond the 4 hard lined devices.

At the bare minimum you will still need to set up the router to be a DHCP server, and all devices to be DHCP.

Finally, you could have all 3 devices on the internet at the same time if you wanted to with only the 2 monitors by using a cheap KVM and attaching 2 of the devices to 1 Keyboard Video Mouse setup; or you could do all 3 devices to 1 monitor using a 4 port KVM.

Good Luck!

 

[Diosoth]

I think for my needs, if I get a Pi I may want my W7 PC and Pi with XBMC for video streaming on at all times. The XP PC won't need to be connected at all times since, at best, it's a backup/older game computer that I'll only go online with if I need to, and I probably won't be using it full time anyway.

I prefer to go wired. Wireless anything seems iffy indoors in my house, even cell phones have issues.

Should mention my current ISP-supplied modem is a Comtrend CT-5072T
http://www.speedguide.net/routers/comtrend-ct-5072t-adsl2-single-port-router-975


My area is also getting upgraded to fiber optic phone and internet "eventually". No actual time frame though the phone company has been installing the fiber optic lines all over for months. I'm not sure if this will be fiber to the home or not so... assuming the do fiber to the home, would a switch or router be obsolete in a few months if I buy one? I'm not entirely certain how this arrangement will work.

 

[3D Jed]

That router looks like a 1 port 100mbps device. I'd say get a gigabit switch ie

router - switch - all the pcs

even though you say you're not bothered about devices talking to each other, if in the future you need this facility eg copy files, this is done via the switch and a gigabit switch is 10X faster than a 10/100 box. Also networking is a useful skill to learn. When deciding how many ports you need, remember one is taken up by the router connection. I have an 8 port gigabit switch for my home network - only cost about £25.

 

[Diosoth]

Going by that suggestion, my best choices for a price I like are a Dynex DX-GB5PRT, a TP-LINK TL-SG1005D, a NetGear [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GS605 or a D-Link [/FONT]DGS-1005G. Each is $20 shipped.

 

[Shadowjk]

In order to connect all devices together whether it be wireless or wired you will need a switch or hub but I would strongly recommend a switch for performance. Based on what you have said you would like to do I would look for an unmanaged switch since you do not need to change any settings for it. All you need to do is just power the switch and connect all your devices to it using a crossover Ethernet cable, then you sir have a nice peer to peer LAN.

To enable internet connectivity you will need to have router (A router is used to transfer information from one network to another). Most commercial routers will have switching capabilities within them however are normally limited to 4 devices at a time [wired] therefore the need to have an 8 port or larger switch connected. Typically, commercial routers will also have DHCP enabled for connected clients otherwise you will need to manually set an ip address for each computer or device connected to the network whether it be wired or wireless. Managed switches normally offer a DHCP service however are much more expensive than unmanaged ones.

Next to consider when purchasing switches and routers are the speed. Typically for cheaper unmanaged switches you there will be 100Mbps between each port. This shouldn't be an issue unless your internet download speed is over 100Mbps.

In conclusion I would get an unmanaged switch and a router, using a crossover Ethernet cable connect the router to the switch and then any wired devices to the switch. Normally routers will have wireless capabilities and therefore can join the network that way if not you will need an adapter to add to one of the ports on the switch.

Hope this helps,
Josh!

 

[3D Jed]

@shadowjk - I think you are wrong re crossover cables. A crossover cable is only needed when you connect pc to pc directly. It hooks up i/p to o/p. With a switch, router etc only regular cables are needed. Anyhow modern switches, routers and indeed nic cards auto detect straight or crossover so in general you can use either.

The OP said he may be going fiber. With any luck, his ISP will supply a new modem router, hopefully wireless enabled. That is my setup -

FTTC - copper to house - wireless router - 8 port switch

the wifi is handy when someone comes round with a laptop

 

[Shadowjk]

You are correct mate however I always suggest crossover cables to end users since I do not fully know their knowledge and a crossover cable would allow them to use it in cases such as connecting pc-pc in future if need be. Was just thinking on return of investment that's all

 

[Diosoth]

the TP-Link model I'm looking at says it automatically detects the connection type so it doesn't need crossover cables.

 

[3D Jed]

Crossover cables are just for pc to pc using just a cable and nothing else. The Rx and Tx are switched at one end so 1 pc sends and the other pc receives. If you connect pc - switch - pc you need straight cables. So in a home network, you only need straight cables, although because of auto detection you can substitute the 'wrong' type if necessary.

BTW my switch is also TP-Link and works ok.

 

[Diosoth]

I went ahead and bought the TP-Link switch since it seems to have the strongest positive review rating of all the models I considered.

 

[RyanGEI]

Hello Diosoth,

I'm sure that will work just fine with your intentions, but keep in mind; adding additional devices to your network is adding potential troubleshooting steps should anything go wrong. That was the reasoning for my suggestion of using a device that has the modem, router, switch, and WiFi all in one.

On a side note, through my own exprience most DSL providers supplied such a device that I suggested. Is this not an option from your provider? Have you asked them? -just curious for my own knowledge.

Ryan

 

[carwiz]

Keep in mind that a Switch is not a router and won't allow connected devices to talk to each other. A switch connects individual ports to the primary port one at a time. The primary port of the switch is connected to a router which will direct packets to other devices, including devices connected to a switch.

Here's an example of a Local Area Network (LAN).

 

[RyanGEI]

Keep in mind that a Switch is not a router and won't allow connected devices to talk to each other.

This doesn't make any sense considering that's exactly what a switch is for. As long as all devices connected to the switch are on the "same subnet", they will communicate with each other, even if the switch has an IP on a different subnet entirely; this is because the switch passes traffic based on MAC address rather than IP, unless you have a layer 3 switch passing traffic based on IP, however I find this highly unlikely in this scenario considering the cost of layer 3 switches.

 

[carwiz]

You are correct Ryan. I had a spend a few of hours and bring myself up to date on Transparent Bridging. I guess technology has improved in the last 20 years. The older switches were more like port expanders.

Forget all I said in the previous post. The "new" stuff is pretty cool.

 

[Diosoth]

I'm not too reliant on devices taking to each other... I guess. Maybe.

I might need that functionality to edit stuff and add files to the Raspberry Pi since I believe Windows can't properly read a Linux file system, even on an SD card like the Pi uses. I also just got an old Dell Optiplex 745 PC with Windows XP and will need to get files onto it(right now it's sitting idle until I get my new monitor cable in the mail and can set up a place for the keyboard and mouse and all that- even then it'll be mainly a backup PC). I bought a Kingston 8 GB flash drive to do that with, though communicating between the two would be helpful at times.

 

[Diosoth]

Just for reference, here's my setup-

1) Gateway PC with Windows 7
2) Dell PC with Windows XP
3) Raspberry Pi

The Gateway is my main PC- it handles my internet browsing, gaming, all that. The Dell is bought mainly to run older games, as well as a backup internet PC if I need it. I will likely keep it offline unless I need to use it for net access, and it won't be on all the time. The Pi will largely be used for XBMC so it needs to be online for streaming, but I'll have a second card for Raspbian which does have a web browser.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Why do you need a switch - or even a HUB at all --if the computers are on a HOME computer network you can wire then in via LAN cable (usually 4 ports on a typical home router) or if the computers have decent Wi-Fi cards in them (laptops will have these built in - a desktop can use cheap USB Wi-Fi) and if you enable sharing the computers will be able to see each other all on the same LAN. Nothing more technical than that is needed.

Depending on what you want to do the Wifi should be decently fast --even for video streaming a 54 mb/s Wi-Fi card should be adequate -- although there are faster cards available now. The router Wi-Fi system preferably should be the newer faster protocol.

Network multi-media streaming should be fairly easy - whether via XBOX, Logitech devices or whatever. Plenty of decent hard / software around for that.

So I'm confused as to what you are trying to do here --sounds to me really simple -- I don't know where all these "switches", "Hubs" and Cross over cables come from or are are even needed. Any basic Wi-Fi capable router will do what you want. Simple networking / sharing does the rest.

Switching computers to a single monitor is also easy. I'm not sure but there might be some hardware around that could display the output of several computers concurrently on a single monitor (large monitor) in some sort of Windows -- I haven't got any experience with that though - I just manually switch via a Logik 4 port HDMI box. HDMI cables from computers into the box and the output HDMI cable to the monitor.

If your computers don't have HDMI do the same with the RGB connectors (used to be called VGA output). Also don't forget that modern TV sets also have computer input facilities so you might be able to use a TV as well as a Monitor for your computers.

(I'm assuming this is a simple HOME setup --obviously in commercial applications switches and all sorts of other networking hardware is used).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Diosoth]

I don't have wi-fi in my house. My PC has a single Ethernet plug, as do the Dell and Pi. I'm also on a budget so buying an expensive router with wi-fi plus wi-fi adapters for the other devices would've been pushing it. I also have issues with wireless devices in this house- cordless phones, cell phones, etc, so I prefer to stay wired.

Right now I have my Gateway PC hooked directly to the modem with no router, switch or hub in between. I'll add in the switch so the Pi can be online for XBMC and so I can use the Dell online without having to swap cables.

As far as networking or streaming from one device to the others... I'm trying not to have everything reliant on one computer. I've had several issues with this PC(rootkit malware, fried HDD from a power surge, other malware infections, recent issues with Windows Update conflicts) and want my devices to all work independent. I bought the Dell largely as a cheap alternative in case I have yet another major issue with my Gateway and would need a means to get online and do other tasks if this one becomes inoperable(secondary rason to play older games that 7 has issues with but ran fine in XP). The Pi with XBMC is going to be an alternative to getting satellite TV.

Monitors... well, I have the Gateway which has VGA and DVI-D, and my Gateway PC does HDMI out. I've been running on VGA but I just ordered an HDMI-DVI cable. My recent TV purchase has a VGA input so I will hook the Dell up to that, with the Pi going in through HDMI. So I have 2 monitors, one will be shared between two devices that I won't be using at the same time.

You might wonder why I don't just link the Gateway to the new TV and use the monitor with the Dell... mainly it's positioning. The Dell case is made to sit flat so I could put it on a shelf above the TV. My Gateway PC and monitor will be staying where they are.

I get what you're saying but my setup is designed to keep all 3 devices independent and wired, without spending more than I have to. I know I could stream content from my PC to the Pi, but it seems almost.... confusing? to do that since I cold just watch the media on the PC direct. The final cost for the Pi after all the peripherals was pushing $100.

 

[RyanGEI]

Right now I have my Gateway PC hooked directly to the modem with no router, ... <--- This sentence; explains this sentence---> I've had several issues with this PC(rootkit malware,..., other malware infections, recent issues with Windows Update conflicts) and want my devices to all work independent. (Router firewalls are very handy and better than the Windows provided firewall IMO)

I get what you're saying but my setup is designed to keep all 3 devices independent and wired, without spending more than I have to (again this can be done as I mentioned in my OR to your OP for $60-$100US on a simple router with 4 LAN ports on it). I know I could stream content from my PC to the Pi, but it seems almost.... confusing? (sharing media across a network has become much easier than it once was, but either method is viable) to do that since I cold just watch the media on the PC direct. The final cost for the Pi after all the peripherals was pushing $100.

A surge protector/UPS would solve "fried HDD from a power surge" in the future, and cost as little as $20US.

Again, the choice is yours but the way you're choosing to do this, in my opinion, is going to generate more headaches than what I'm suggesting.