Google user or Guru?

[wizardcia]

Hey, I was wondering these days, if the Gurus of the site are real Gurus or just google users! Please dont take it wrong but everytime I ask a question that I dont find on the net or the forum, noone has an answer for me.
Ok, searching google is fun, but isnt knowledge that matters?
I am somehow dissapointed, sorry for that but I believe the site has few real gurus. I hope I am wrong.
Friendly Vic.

 

[davehc]

Some knowledge I have. A lot I have googled for, in the past, from early XP days, and built up a heavy document on my own computer. Nearly 80% of questions being asked about windows 7, were also asked and answered, for Vista, or even XP. Of course, where applicable, I just refer to those. Other than that, I do feel that posters with queries on a forum such as this, have come here bacause they are looking for answers on this link and, important, cross feedback on the problem, from whoever chooses to join the thread. Otherwise, most seekers for solutions could, as you suggest, merely google. They would surely be returned, in many of the links, to forums like this one. That is the nature of the Internet search engines.
From my own point of view, should I seek knowledge on any subject, I would be irritated by merely being given a link to another source. I would consider that as superfluous.
Quite honestly, I think the only true gurus, restricting the answer to Windows 7, are the Microsoft software engineers who actually wrote the code. In that respect, I have to agree with your last para.
I could recommend, if you feel so strongly about the matter, that you visit one of the Microsoft forums. Whilst the exchanges do not differ from what you will find here, usually a Microsoft Techician will pop into the thread with the authorative answer.
There are several like these, for example:

Discussions in microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_assessment

 

[skunksmash]

Hey, I was wondering these days, if the Gurus of the site are real Gurus or just google users! Please dont take it wrong but everytime I ask a question that I dont find on the net or the forum, noone has an answer for me.
Ok, searching google is fun, but isnt knowledge that matters?
I am somehow dissapointed, sorry for that but I believe the site has few real gurus. I hope I am wrong.
Friendly Vic.

umm..... everyone has expertise in different areas, im sorry you have not been lucky with your answers thus far but that by NO means shows a lac of knowledge on this forum.

if someone passed you information from google, then its fair to assume its readily available & could have been found just as easily by you.

still if you don't like the way this forum operates there's no place for you here.

DO NOT slander the resident ''Guru's'' again.




SK

 

[Airbot]

I would agree with skunksmash, I don't see how you can make an assumption like that from being here for a day or two and asking one question that hasn't been solved yet. There are many knowledgable members here, skunksmash being one of them and sometimes questions take a while to be solved.

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Hello wizardcia, welcome to Se7en Forums!

Some time it's just easier to give someone a link instead of writing out a reply to something that's been written a thousand times elsewhere.

Case in point; I could write to you an explination on how to do this; but why not use this?

How to dual boot Vista and XP (with Vista installed first) -- the step-by-step guide with screenshots

Isn't this way just easier. Please be nicer with your comments in future.








Later :shock: Ted

 

[johngalt]

wizardcia,

As a statement qualifier, let me first say that I am not the best uber geek here - or anything like that. I do know what I know, and that is quite a bit, but I am not going to bore you with repeating what the others have said - when it is easier to refer someone to a set of nicely laid out instructions that we pull from a Google link, we do.

However, we also use our very own http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/257-windows-7-tutorial-index.html as well as our very own posts - see my post http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/342-show-us-your-wei-16.html#post10171 where I explain how some Seagate Barracuda HD users can get their WEI HD benchmark to be correct - and sometimes actually create a new post on the fly.

You have to look at *several* things though....

1. Having to answer a lot of posts, and this place have exponentially increased over the last several days, is hard when you have to type out phrases by hand over and over. At several other sites I belonged to, there were canned responses used when answering questions, particularly security questions (relating to malware infections and malware prevention), but here I take a more fresh approach - I try *not* to use a canned response so I am interacting a little more with each user I respond to.
2. Another thing is to look at the time available bad the number of posts needing requesting help. Over at the sister site, Vista x64 forums, I joined sometime in May of 2008 - by September 2008 I had almost (or over, don't quite remember) 3000 posts - and sometimes I was on the board for 3 hours trying to go through every new post *just in the general discussion forum* to make sure no user had been left out or had not been answered, at the very least acknowledged. In situations like this, it is a *lot* easier to point someone to a link than it is to write out the whole shebang.

It's hit and miss - sometimes it takes that you find someone who has your *exact* symptoms and your *exact* hardware before you see a light go off and are able to fix something. The issue I link above is almost exclusively with Seagate barracuda HDs, and the *solution* is almost exclusively for nForce chipset-based motherboards. But until I went digging further, all I knew was that my WEI went from 2.x to 5.9 when disabling Command Queue. Other users have since reported not having such a tab, or not being able to enable / disable that particular check box - and with me *not* having another computer that is not nForce based, I cannot answer the question that they pose.

There are very very few people in the world who have seen it all and done it all. And there is less and less time every day due to other obligations. The economy sucks, we need to work more hours or get a second job, and yet we keep coming back here to help - without places like this *so* many users would end up *never* getting any help whatsoever, just plodding along with their hardware working halfway, or with their problem simply being ignored instead of fixed. It takes time and effort to even just research the answer ourselves and present it back to the user.

So, to answer your question, no we're not *just* uber searchers - but that *is* one of our skills.

 

[Joan Archer]

Even being a Googler takes time and effort if you don't use the correct phrases or key words

 

[wizardcia]

I would agree with skunksmash, I don't see how you can make an assumption like that from being here for a day or two and asking one question that hasn't been solved yet. There are many knowledgable members here, skunksmash being one of them and sometimes questions take a while to be solved.

I have just downloaded win7 so I decided to create an account here to.
I had on VistaX64 also one, and no replyies to. I dont say that everyone here is dummies, in fact I dont want to think that way but this is what I see and I express my opinion. I dont mean to insult, I mean to point some worries. I mean ok, the site is great the staff is great, I like it, and I dont demand advice for ALL my questions, but sinse I have major problems, which I cant find on the net, I expect you guys to know sinse you decided to dedicate a webpage for entire OS.
Sinse April 2008 I am waiting some answers to be solved. They are just forgoten so I forget them to, but the fact remains.
So again I meant no insult.

 

[wizardcia]

umm..... everyone has expertise in different areas, im sorry you have not been lucky with your answers thus far but that by NO means shows a lac of knowledge on this forum.

if someone passed you information from google, then its fair to assume its readily available & could have been found just as easily by you.

still if you don't like the way this forum operates there's no place for you here.

DO NOT slander the resident ''Guru's'' again.




SK

Hey friend there is no need to be cynical. I wanted to express my opinions in a democratic way, there is no need for disallowing me doing things. I had only possitive intentions when I wrote this. I believe that hearing all voices we all might turn better.

 

[wizardcia]

wizardcia,
.........

Hey friend as I said to all, I have no bad intentions. I know that we cant know eveything, so we have to rely sometimes elsewhere, but I know that such subjects are beeing studied, and people who have been taught this art, many times have answer to every quetion. But ok, sinse I am a google user to I dont mean to insult the site or the people for beeing irresponsible not answering anythings someone asks. I barely had never asked a question about something that cant be found on the net.
I treat respect for the site and all its members.
Friendly Vic

 

[wizardcia]

Hello wizardcia, welcome to Se7en Forums!

Some time it's just easier to give someone a link instead of writing out a reply to something that's been written a thousand times elsewhere.

Case in point; I could write to you an explination on how to do this; but why not use this?

How to dual boot Vista and XP (with Vista installed first) -- the step-by-step guide with screenshots

Isn't this way just easier. Please be nicer with your comments in future.

I meant no insult. Sorry for missunderstanding.

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Hello again wizardcia.

That's ok, you do raise a valid point; in that anyone can use Google....
















Later :shock: Ted

 

[renthor]

I feel like in this day and age, everyone is impatient and wants a solution or an answer to a problem almost immediately. This isn't just you, or anyone else on the 'net, but even in real life. I'm the resident PC-know-it-all amongst my friends and family and so I'm constantly called upon to fix the issues that are big and small. And it seems even with them, if I haven't solved a problem in a matter of minutes, or even hours, something is drastically wrong. This isn't the case, sometimes it just takes a bit to get it working.

The average user, I don't think anyway, sees this, as they're experience is usually with Google and the numerous tips/solutions that have already been discovered. Maybe consciously, maybe subconsciously, they come to expect this near-instant resolution for every problem. Such is the life we now live in. Thank you internets!

However, especially with a new OS, that even the uber-geeks are new too, it sometimes takes time to figure out a solution to what might seem an easy problem to fix. But don't fret, there is plenty of knowledge around these parts. Just have some patience and maybe while we wait for our problem to be fixed or troubleshot, we can help someone else with a problem they're having.

 

[davehc]

Hello again wizardcia.

That's ok, you do raise a valid point; in that anyone can use Google....

Absoutely true, but when seeking help, I would still prefer to come to a forum and get an exchange of views, as well as a solution
The wickipedia sums it up for me
"An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site.[1] It is the modern equivalent of a traditional bulletin board, and a technological evolution of the dialup bulletin board system.[2][3] From a technological standpoint, forums[note 1] or boards are web applications managing user-generated content.[4][5]
People participating in an Internet forum can build bonds with each other and interest groups will easily form around a topic's discussion, subjects dealt within or around sections in the forum."

 

[johngalt]

I feel like in this day and age, everyone is impatient and wants a solution or an answer to a problem almost immediately. This isn't just you, or anyone else on the 'net, but even in real life. I'm the resident PC-know-it-all amongst my friends and family and so I'm constantly called upon to fix the issues that are big and small. And it seems even with them, if I haven't solved a problem in a matter of minutes, or even hours, something is drastically wrong. This isn't the case, sometimes it just takes a bit to get it working.

The average user, I don't think anyway, sees this, as they're experience is usually with Google and the numerous tips/solutions that have already been discovered. Maybe consciously, maybe subconsciously, they come to expect this near-instant resolution for every problem. Such is the life we now live in. Thank you internets!

However, especially with a new OS, that even the uber-geeks are new too, it sometimes takes time to figure out a solution to what might seem an easy problem to fix. But don't fret, there is plenty of knowledge around these parts. Just have some patience and maybe while we wait for our problem to be fixed or troubleshot, we can help someone else with a problem they're having.

There is a bigger problem, though. Think about how many times a user comes in here asking for help, and we don't get all the information - it's like pulling teeth. The same principle applies when novice - mildly experienced users go searching for answers.

Take for example, a user needing to find out more about a Driver_less_than_or_equal STOP error - I, for example, know to copy the STOP error code and do a Google search for the entire stop error - but the average and less experienced users won't know that - hence their ability to *find* answers is also diminished. I have a much better grasp on how search works, what search operators are, how to effectively use them, etc. Most users on the planet, when they have a problem, may search for something like "DVD not working" instead of "DVD reports no disc loaded" - which will give much more specific search results for an error message that states "No disc loaded - please insert a CD or DVD to continue".

In addition, not only are my search skills good, but my *knowledge* skill set is good - like most 'resident techies' I have a good bit of knowledge when it comes to troubleshooting issues, but you'll notice that 9 times out of 10 I will not *assume* right way that a particular solution that I have seen work in the past will *always* work - hence my request for more detailed information. Some things are just plain obvious - others, like a particular thread in Gen Disc where I worked with a user for a couple of hours trying to solve a problem (that AFAIK is still not solved) shows the *other* facet of being a resident techie - knowing different plans of actions to take when troubleshooting as well as having a good ability to think quickly on your feet, trying various techniques to remedy the problem.

Finally, this is a forum - largely staffed by *volunteers* - who have real lives and real jobs and real responsibilities outside of this place. Sometimes answers are not forthcoming - not *every* problem has a ready solution. Not every person with the right set of circumstances will experience the same problems as others have. Notable example - 780i mobos with 4 GB of RAM were giving some folks fits when trying to install Vista when using a 4 x 1 config or a 2 x 2 config - I not only got it to install every time I did it (all 3 times) but I even had successful installs with my system OCd. However, W7 does not like me if I am OCing - I have to remove all OC and then install W7 and then reinstate my OC. Perhaps others with my setup may have this problem - perhaps not.

Absoutely true, but when seeking help, I would still prefer to come to a forum and get an exchange of views, as well as a solution
The wickipedia sums it up for me
"An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site.[1] It is the modern equivalent of a traditional bulletin board, and a technological evolution of the dialup bulletin board system.[2][3] From a technological standpoint, forums[note 1] or boards are web applications managing user-generated content.[4][5]
People participating in an Internet forum can build bonds with each other and interest groups will easily form around a topic's discussion, subjects dealt within or around sections in the forum."

That is true as well - but the major thing to remember is that patience is a virtue....

 

[Joan Archer]

Very good post John and so true, especially when you mentioned the stop errors, another forum I belong to get a lot of those and the number of times you have to ask for the rest of the error message to be able to continue, although on that forum it's understandable as it is for the novice computer user

 

[smarteyeball]

Finally, this is a forum - largely staffed by *volunteers* - who have real lives and real jobs and real responsibilities outside of this place.

And who do a good job.

Wizardcia, I know that you didn't mean offense - and yes it is frustrating to have an issue that isn't answered, but as John mentioned, most of the staff and fellow users here are doing this for free. Some of us will literally go out of our way to help; often giving up time that sometimes *could and should* be better spent elsewhere.



If your issue can be resolved, it will be. It if it's from personal knowledge, even better. However, I'd rather be answered by a 'guru' who googled better than I did than not

Even sites like technet that are full of 'gurus' are littered with dead end threads with no resolutions.

 

[garysgold]

There is a bigger problem, though. Think about how many times a user comes in here asking for help, and we don't get all the information - it's like pulling teeth. The same principle applies when novice - mildly experienced users go searching for answers.

Take for example, a user needing to find out more about a Driver_less_than_or_equal STOP error - I, for example, know to copy the STOP error code and do a Google search for the entire stop error - but the average and less experienced users won't know that - hence their ability to *find* answers is also diminished. I have a much better grasp on how search works, what search operators are, how to effectively use them, etc. Most users on the planet, when they have a problem, may search for something like "DVD not working" instead of "DVD reports no disc loaded" - which will give much more specific search results for an error message that states "No disc loaded - please insert a CD or DVD to continue".

In addition, not only are my search skills good, but my *knowledge* skill set is good - like most 'resident techies' I have a good bit of knowledge when it comes to troubleshooting issues, but you'll notice that 9 times out of 10 I will not *assume* right way that a particular solution that I have seen work in the past will *always* work - hence my request for more detailed information. Some things are just plain obvious - others, like a particular thread in Gen Disc where I worked with a user for a couple of hours trying to solve a problem (that AFAIK is still not solved) shows the *other* facet of being a resident techie - knowing different plans of actions to take when troubleshooting as well as having a good ability to think quickly on your feet, trying various techniques to remedy the problem.

Finally, this is a forum - largely staffed by *volunteers* - who have real lives and real jobs and real responsibilities outside of this place. Sometimes answers are not forthcoming - not *every* problem has a ready solution. Not every person with the right set of circumstances will experience the same problems as others have. Notable example - 780i mobos with 4 GB of RAM were giving some folks fits when trying to install Vista when using a 4 x 1 config or a 2 x 2 config - I not only got it to install every time I did it (all 3 times) but I even had successful installs with my system OCd. However, W7 does not like me if I am OCing - I have to remove all OC and then install W7 and then reinstate my OC. Perhaps others with my setup may have this problem - perhaps not.



That is true as well - but the major thing to remember is that patience is a virtue....

Excellent answer JG.

All you need do is look at all the people who haven't even filled out their system specs.

Gary

 

[renthor]

There is a bigger problem, though. Think about how many times a user comes in here asking for help, and we don't get all the information - it's like pulling teeth. The same principle applies when novice - mildly experienced users go searching for answers.

Take for example, a user needing to find out more about a Driver_less_than_or_equal STOP error - I, for example, know to copy the STOP error code and do a Google search for the entire stop error - but the average and less experienced users won't know that - hence their ability to *find* answers is also diminished. I have a much better grasp on how search works, what search operators are, how to effectively use them, etc. Most users on the planet, when they have a problem, may search for something like "DVD not working" instead of "DVD reports no disc loaded" - which will give much more specific search results for an error message that states "No disc loaded - please insert a CD or DVD to continue".

In addition, not only are my search skills good, but my *knowledge* skill set is good - like most 'resident techies' I have a good bit of knowledge when it comes to troubleshooting issues, but you'll notice that 9 times out of 10 I will not *assume* right way that a particular solution that I have seen work in the past will *always* work - hence my request for more detailed information. Some things are just plain obvious - others, like a particular thread in Gen Disc where I worked with a user for a couple of hours trying to solve a problem (that AFAIK is still not solved) shows the *other* facet of being a resident techie - knowing different plans of actions to take when troubleshooting as well as having a good ability to think quickly on your feet, trying various techniques to remedy the problem.

All you need do is look at all the people who haven't even filled out their system specs.

Could not agree more. Yes, definitely a larger problem, and I think it really illustrates how lazy and impatient people have become. The internet age is very instant. Couple that with either misinformed, less experienced, or both, users and it can really make troubleshooting a pain in the ***.

Finally, this is a forum - largely staffed by *volunteers* - who have real lives and real jobs and real responsibilities outside of this place. Sometimes answers are not forthcoming - not *every* problem has a ready solution. Not every person with the right set of circumstances will experience the same problems as others have. Notable example - 780i mobos with 4 GB of RAM were giving some folks fits when trying to install Vista when using a 4 x 1 config or a 2 x 2 config - I not only got it to install every time I did it (all 3 times) but I even had successful installs with my system OCd. However, W7 does not like me if I am OCing - I have to remove all OC and then install W7 and then reinstate my OC. Perhaps others with my setup may have this problem - perhaps not.

And a BIG thanks to all of them!