[HELP] SSD questions

[TechTune]

Hey guys! First off, great forum.. helped me alot getting started since the support here in Norway is way below average.
This time however I had to register and ask you guys.. (sorry if these are frequent question or stupid ones, but my search was unsuccessful.)

1. Do I need to format C: on my HDD before installing the same Win7 on the SSD?
2. Should I leave out the HDD from the computer on the first boot after setting up the SSD?
3. Do I need to affect RAID in any way?
4. Yes or No, installing programs on the SSD recommended?

That's It.. my first time installing a SSD so I'm way outta' my comfort zone.

Thanks..
Michael

 

[Product FRED]

1) If you're performing a clean install, it would be wise to do a quick format.

2) You can leave any additional HDD(s) inside the computer during install, or you can add them after. Your choice. It won't affect anything.

3) If you're using RAID, you need to have at least 2 HDDs of the same size, not more, not less. You also need RAID drivers and you need to hit "Load Drivers" when you're choosing which HDD to install Windows 7 to during installation. If you're using RAID, I'd recommend either 2 SSDs or 2 IDE/SATA drives. RAID will only work as fast as your slowest drive.

4) You should install Windows 7 to the SSD, since the speed increase will be dramatic. You can install to apps if you'd like. When you use RAID, the 2 drives you have configured for RAID show up as one, so you wouldn't have a choice anyways. Just don't choose RAID 0 since it spreads the data across 2 drives instead of mirroring them, if one drive fails, the other one is useless you lose all your data.

 

[wallyinnc]

TechTune, welcome to the forums

I need to start by saying I don't have and have not installed a SSD before, but I will start with a few questions that will help others with experience on that help you

- What is the final configuration you want? OS on the SSD and files in the HD or vice versa, all in the SSD etc?
- Are you going to have a RAID array (with SSD or HD)? I believe you only have one of each, right?
- Can you please fill in your system specs and let us know what SSD you are installing?

Tks

 

[TechTune]

wow.. did not expect replies that fast, awesome
Thank you Product FRED, for the info and a quick reply.. but does the 7 DVD provide a 'format only' option? or do I need to do it some other way? I thought RAID had something to do with the drives priority, so lets pretend I never brought that up
wallyinnc, thanks.. great to be here.
My plan was OS and programs on SSD and everything else on HDD, but my google search brought me to a forum were they talked about the SSD slowing down if programs got installed, so now i really dont know.
Acer Aspire M5641 Q8200
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
4GB RAM
EVGA 250GTS
The SSD is Intel's 2 gen. X25-M 80GB

 

[Product FRED]

Hard Drives themselves don't slow down. They slow down when the data on them gets fragmented. Windows 7 has automatic background defragmentation, but it's still a good idea to run your own such as Defraggler. SSD is dramatically faster than IDE/SATA though, so you really wouldn't notice a slowdown as long as you maintain your system.

 

[TechTune]

Okey.. i use the defragmenter in 7, but Defraggler does a better job?
Is it possible to remove the Windows 7 partition in my HDD so it doesn't conflict with the SSD?

 

[Product FRED]

If you're installing Windows 7 to an SSD, there shouldn't be a partition on your other HDD for Windows 7, unless it's already installed there. Yes, you can format the drive if you'd like.

 

[wallyinnc]

Tks for the feedback Techtune.
Take a look at this article, I think it explains where the notion of SSDs slowing down in time comes from. From what I know Intel SSDs are the most advanced in terms of TRIM. Besides, if you use the SSD mostly for programs you can expect less Read and write cycles, so an even longer "life"

 

[whs]

Wait, wait,wait - NEVER use a defragger on an SSD - you might as well treat it with a hammer. The access to any point on the SSD is equal. Fragmentation does not mean anything to an SSD.
I happen to have an Intel 80GB. I have the full operating system on it in a 40GB partition (uses 17GB right now with a lot of programs installed (including the page file less the hibernation file). The other 40GB I use as a data partition. But you can put your data on an HDD. I just happen to have the space.
Just do a quick format and let the Win7 installer do the rest (alignment, disable defrag, etc.), But keep superfetch around (against popular advice). If you have more questions, let me know.

 

[Product FRED]

Oh, no no. I was suggesting he defragment his HDD, not SSD. That's why I said SSD's don't really get hurt performance-wise. Listen to whs.

 

[whs]

Oh, no no. I was suggesting he defragment his HDD, not SSD. That's why I said SSD's don't really get hurt performance-wise. Listen to whs.

Good - I just wanted to make sure because it was not quite clear from your post and could have been interpreted the wrong way by someone not familiar with SSDs. I hope you don't mind.

Hard Drives themselves don't slow down. They slow down when the data on them gets fragmented. Windows 7 has automatic background defragmentation, but it's still a good idea to run your own such as Defraggler. SSD is dramatically faster than IDE/SATA though, so you really wouldn't notice a slowdown as long as you maintain your system.

 

[Product FRED]

I don't mind at all. If anything, you prevented something that could have gone wrong, so I thank you for that.

 

[whs]

I don't mind at all. If anything, you prevented something that could have gone wrong, so I thank you for that.

You are very kind. Thank YOU.

 

[spyknee]

Hey guys! First off, great forum.. helped me alot getting started since the support here in Norway is way below average.
This time however I had to register and ask you guys.. (sorry if these are frequent question or stupid ones, but my search was unsuccessful.)

1. Do I need to format C: on my HDD before installing the same Win7 on the SSD?
2. Should I leave out the HDD from the computer on the first boot after setting up the SSD?
3. Do I need to affect RAID in any way?
4. Yes or No, installing programs on the SSD recommended?

That's It.. my first time installing a SSD so I'm way outta' my comfort zone.

Thanks..
Michael

1.NO, W7 will handle everything. I would unplug all other drives however, till after install. Put SSD in SATA port 0.
3. Some will argue that SSD"s will function better with the RAID bios selection, selected. Even if you do not make a RAID array. At minimum choose AHCI, otherwise. Make sure you use the latest FW version for your SSD, before OS install.
4. Some say YES, some say NO. To get the benefits of SSD's, YES. SSD's have a limited life span as compared with spinners. Its about keeping the writes on the SSD to a minimum. If you plan on alot of editing, store those writes on a spinner.
In my case, I RAIDed 3, I use a 4th one as an E drive. I put temp files and the pagefile there.
Good Luck

 

[Product FRED]

Hey guys! First off, great forum.. helped me alot getting started since the support here in Norway is way below average.
This time however I had to register and ask you guys.. (sorry if these are frequent question or stupid ones, but my search was unsuccessful.)

1. Do I need to format C: on my HDD before installing the same Win7 on the SSD?
2. Should I leave out the HDD from the computer on the first boot after setting up the SSD?
3. Do I need to affect RAID in any way?
4. Yes or No, installing programs on the SSD recommended?

That's It.. my first time installing a SSD so I'm way outta' my comfort zone.

Thanks..
Michael

1.NO, W7 will handle everything. I would unplug all other drives however, till after install. Put SSD in SATA port 0.
3. Some will argue that SSD"s will function better with the RAID bios selection, selected. Even if you do not make a RAID array. At minimum choose AHCI, otherwise. Make sure you use the latest FW version for your SSD, before OS install.
4. Some say YES, some say NO. To get the benefits of SSD's, YES. SSD's have a limited life span as compared with spinners. Its about keeping the writes on the SSD to a minimum. If you plan on alot of editing, store those writes on a spinner.
In my case, I RAIDed 3, I use a 4th one as an E drive. I put temp files and the pagefile there.
Good Luck

He said ignore RAID because he thought it had to do with something else.

 

[whs]

SSD's have a limited life span as compared with spinners. Its about keeping the writes on the SSD to a minimum.

When I look at the specs of the better SSDs (MTBF=1.5 million hours), I would not worry too much about that. They will certainly last the 3 or 4 years one keeps it. And we might as well get maximum use out of it during that time.
I never move anything - pagefile, program file, etc. I even put a data partition on it.

 

[Kipper]

Some suggestions for performance and Tweaks of SSDs

Some things for consideration which will enhance performance with an SSD.

Not saying this has to or should be done, just what I find works great for me anyways.

After installing Windows (presumably Win 7 since it has TRIM support for your hotrod SSD), there are some important things you need to know and do for your SSD and Windows setup. These things below will both enhance performance but also prevent potential damage to your SSD.

This information is not brand-specific, it generally applies to all Solid State Drives, regardless of which make or model you have.


-disable Indexing with the SSD (Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Services and Applications -> Services - > Right-Click Windows Search -> Startup type: Disabled -> OK)

-Write caching (Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Device Manager -> Disk drives -> Right-Click STEC PATA -> Properties -> Policies Tab -> Uncheck Enable write caching -> OK). Note that write caching can improve performance but increase the risk of lost data. Whether you choose to enable/disable is up to you.

-Disable Superfetch (Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Services and Applications -> Services - > Right-Click Superfetch-> Startup type: Disabled -> OK)

-Disable Prefetch (Windows Key + r -> type regedit -> browse to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters) -> Find Enable Prefetcher -> right click on the right pane then choose Modify -> change value from 3 to 0 -> OK -> File Exit)

-move your pagefile to the hard drive instead of the SSD. Or to disable completely: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Properties -> Advanced System Settings -> Settings (Performance) -> Advanced Tab -> Change -> Uncheck Automatically manage -> No paging file -> Set -> OK -> Restart your computer. Alternatively, if you want to play it safer, you can set a custom size of 200MB min and max.

-do NOT defrag your SSD. Disable defrag altogether (Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Services and Applications -> Services - > Right-Click Disk Defragmenter -> Startup type: Disabled -> OK)

-disable Hibernate (Start Menu -> Type cmd -> Right-Click the cmd Icon -> Run as Administrator -> Type powercfg -h off -> Type exit)

-if you use Firefox (which you should!) then use Memory Cache instead of Disk Cache (Open Firefox -> Type about:config into the address bar -> Enter -> double-click browser.cache.disk.enable to set the value to False -> Right-Click anywhere -> New -> Integer -> Preference Name "disk.cache.memory.capacity" -> value memory size in KB. Enter 32768 for 32MB, 65536 for 64MB, 131072 for 128MB, etc. -> restart Firefox)


PLEASE NOTE: After these changes you MUST restart your computer for them to take full effect.

 

[whs]

Kipper, the only measure I would do is disable defrag and eliminate the hibernation file. None of the others I have done and my system works beautifully - since 6 months.

 

[bobkn]

Wait, wait,wait - NEVER use a defragger on an SSD - you might as well treat it with a hammer.

A little exaggerated, perhaps?

SSDs may suffer from limited rewrite cycles, but I think that a hammer might end their lives a bit more rapidly than some wasted writes.

 

[Wishmaster]

A lot of tweaks were really intended for G1 SSDs.

The best way, IMO, to instal the OS on a SSD:

Disconnect ALL spinning Drives leaving only the SSD connected (and CD/DVD drive if not installing with USB stick) and in the very first SATA port.

If the drive is new, start the Windows installation and simply select the drive and hit next.
No need to partition or format. Win7 will do all of this, set the correct alignment as well as format.
If the Drive has DATA and your reinstalling, run a diskpart clean command. Exit and proceed as above.
99% of the time this is all thats really needed.

Win7 Tweaks the SSD all on its own.
To force Win7s self tweaking for the SSD, simply open a elevated cmd prompt and type:
winsat disk
OR: Run the WEI

After the its done reboot. All needed tweaks will be automatically applied.

If you choose to do it manually, what you MUST do:
1. Disable disk defragmenter scheduler.
2. Services set Superfetch to manual. Not Disable!!
Pre-Fetch still has benefits, even for SSDs.


Thats all you need to do & exactly what Win7 will do on its own if you run the WEI or winsat disk.

I agree with whs.
I too, disable the hiberfile. Although its not really a needed tweak and won't hurt anything leaving it on if you have the space.

defrag isn't really needed either.
If you want to defrag the SSD monthly, use something like Perfect Disk (CONSOLODATE) only or Diskeeper Hyperfast.
there may be others, but these are the only 2 I am aware of that are safe for SSDs in moderation.

In my experience, it really doesnt help much though.