How does system recovery work

[zrtom]

Thanks Kari,
I respect your advice a lot and I certainly didn't mean to offend.
And you've answered my question about whether HP uses a .wim file for factory recover! So all is good.
Tom

 

[chev65]

I agree, those factory recovery partitions have all the bloatware on them. Real computers users get rid of those adware inflated images ASAP. Using a clean copy of your Op system is just so much better.

In fact, that is one of the reasons I build my own computers now. No more bloated preinstalled adware for me, no more Dell,HP,Sony,Gateway or the adware they install on your system.

 

[Kari]

I agree, those factory recovery partitions have all the bloatware on them. Real computers users get rid of those adware inflated images ASAP. Using a clean copy of your Op system is just so much better.

In fact, that is one of the reasons I build my own computers now. No more bloated preinstalled adware for me, no more Dell,HP,Sony,Gateway or the adware they install on your system.

So I am not a real computer user because I like to use recovery partition / discs to get my HP laptop to factory defaults when needed? Instead of installing a "clean" OS and downloading all the drivers separately, I like to get the original drivers installed as easily as possible. That's just what recovery does, OS and drivers with a few clicks.

What is "bloatware"? HP laptop recovery installs Adobe PDF-reader, a DVD suite, a webcam application, HP Support libraries and HP manuals. I am not a real computer user because I use these?

Your post is almost an insult. I've read quite a few of your posts, this one really surprised me. How can somebody with so high status here on SevenForums give so BS advice?

Kari

P.S. I'm very keen to know what kind of Adware HP recovery installs?

 

[zrtom]

Well, not to belabor the point nor get into trouble again....

One of the uses I have for the factory image recovery process is troubleshooting other peoples' computers. If they are at the end of their rope I can restore the factory image usually in about 10 minutes and have a solid baseline to troubleshoot hardware, etc. I'm talking particularly about the Dell factory.wim factory image recovery tools as I seem to work mostly on Dell computers. Indeed, I feel Dell does it that way to expedite their onsite (meaning over the phone) troubleshooting process.... many times they have the customer do a factory restore before anything else.

Personally, I usually install Operating Systems clean and fresh (and usually often). But, I use some of the Dell recovery tools to capture my fresh and tweaked OS as an image that replaces the factory.wim image with my own. Then, if I'm on the road or the system otherwise goes kaput I can restore my own custom image from the Recovery Environment in about 10 minutes without needing a backup drive or separate backup image, etc.

And one final note about the current Dells. To begin with, they are shipping very little bloat these days. And, if you know the secret password (i.e., keep pestering the Tech Support person on the other end of the line) you can get Dell to ship you a set of System Restoration DVDs for your service tag that reformats the hard drive, installs the OS as it shipped, creates the Recovery partition (along with the requisite tools), builds a new recovery image and sets you off on your merry way. The big difference is the SRDVDs are nearly 100% bloat free. As Dell has explained to me, the bloat is removed (but none of the original software) because the bloat they are "offering" today may be different from the bloat they offered when the computer was purchased..... so they don't include it.

That's all for now; time for lunch.

Tom

 

[Kari]

Well, not to belabor the point nor get into trouble again....

One of the uses I have for the factory image recovery process is troubleshooting other peoples' computers. If they are at the end of their rope I can restore the factory image usually in about 10 minutes and have a solid baseline to troubleshoot hardware, etc. I'm talking particularly about the Dell factory.wim factory image recovery tools as I seem to work mostly on Dell computers. Indeed, I feel Dell does it that way to expedite their onsite (meaning over the phone) troubleshooting process.... many times they have the customer do a factory restore before anything else.

Personally, I usually install Operating Systems clean and fresh (and usually often). But, I use some of the Dell recovery tools to capture my fresh and tweaked OS as an image that replaces the factory.wim image with my own. Then, if I'm on the road or the system otherwise goes kaput I can restore my own custom image from the Recovery Environment in about 10 minutes without needing a backup drive or separate backup image, etc.

And one final note about the current Dells. To begin with, they are shipping very little bloat these days. And, if you know the secret password (i.e., keep pestering the Tech Support person on the other end of the line) you can get Dell to ship you a set of System Restoration DVDs for your service tag that reformats the hard drive, installs the OS as it shipped, creates the Recovery partition (along with the requisite tools), builds a new recovery image and sets you off on your merry way. The big difference is the SRDVDs are nearly 100% bloat free. As Dell has explained to me, the bloat is removed (but none of the original software) because the bloat they are "offering" today may be different from the bloat they offered when the computer was purchased..... so they don't include it.

That's all for now; time for lunch.

Tom

+1

You are OK

 

[gregrocker]

Please, Massa Kari, don't whup me too!

Kari:

Normally I don't respond to haters, but your nastiness to anyone who questions the manufacturer's position on bloatware is uncalled for and unsupportable. How strange that you would play sentinel in the threads where you post, daring anyone to question you then attacking away, until you get obesience and then you deem the unworthy: "OK." Sick stuff from the needy.

Since you ask "What is bloatware," and deny that there is any in a manufacturer's factory installation and recovery image, it is you sir who are outside the mainstream of tech enthusiasts who long ago learned to clean install to winnow out bloatware like Norton, Office trial, adware registry listings for multiple ISP's, burning programs, eBay, ad nauseum. Norton and Office ALONE are nearly impossible to remove and require special removal tools - Office trial requires several dozen registry items to remove it's fully installed program that isn't even included without another $250. Most times after these are removed, System File Checker reports unfixable corruption, which we tech loonies know means "Clean Install!"

So, these strange radical "tech enthusiasts" learned to locate an OEM disk of their licensed OS which will activate upon installation to formatted HDD, then migrate the drivers which are better than what the installer provides (chipset, graphics, sound, network/ethernet) from the computer/manufacturer's product page, install AV, Works, Adobe, flash, Java basically and then other programs needed. At each step, these alien "tech enthusiasts" make sure that none of the added apps besides AV have snuck into msconfig>startup and become free riders on RAM. This is how ruthless and renegade these tech revolutionaries are, and they must be stopped!

You can defend your manufacturer's bloatware they've larded into multiple registry keys as being otherwise unavailable to helpless users, meanwhile alien TE's have gathered any that are useful along with other easily available apps (flash, java, adobe, Works) together on USB sticks and peel them off into fresh installations in minutes.

How many hundred bloatware vs. clean installations have you done to compare, Kari? How about instantaneous speed on clean installs in 100% of the jobs, vs. 10% with bloatware? While you've been posting/attacking, some of us have been installing.

 

[Adrian]

Kari

P.S. I'm very keen to know what kind of Adware HP recovery installs?[/QUOTE]
None!

 

[Kari]

ROTFLMAO!

Which manufacturer do you work for? Or are you really that rank of an amateur?

gregrocker, you don't seem to understand the point of all of this and your idiotic post doesn't deserve an answer. EDIT: You've deleted the post. Why?

Anyway, because it is obvious you can not understand the complexity of this issue, I'll try to explain it. I will try to make it very simple, so you can understand it too.

I'm talking about what kind of applications a HP recovery system contains because that is the make of the computer OP mentions; he's asking how does a recovery partition in a HP Pavilion Laptop work. If he would have a Dell, I had spoken about Dell.

I think we here on the SevenForums have a responsibility to give true and valid information and answers to the questions. I can not understand somebody giving completely false and even harmful information, to pretend to know something when in fact showing quite clearly he knows nothing about the subject thus giving wrong information. These teenage wannabees we meet every day here on forums, some of us are really working to repair the damage this kind of false information and advice causes.

The OP has a HP laptop which has it's own recovery system. HE asks how does this recovery system work. This system can not be used without installing those applications I mentioned.

When somebody tells "Erase and delete the recovery partition", it is an absolutely idiotic answer to OP. This advice is wrong and could cause severe harm in the future.

I feel I am responsible for the facts, advice and tips I give. That is why I never try to offer my solution if I am not absolutely sure it is true and valid. The OP has got valid, accurate and true information in this thread. If he follows my recommendations, he's going to have no problems.

Kari

 

[Kari]

How many hundred bloatware vs. clean installations have you done to compare, Kari? How about instantaneous lightning speed on clean installs in 100% of the jobs, vs. 10% with bloatware?

I really don't know. Have to calculate it. Mostly clean installs, that's clear. But this issue was about recovery partition and how it works. Do you really think it is a real answer to tell to delete the whole thing?

P.S. I'm very keen to know what kind of Adware HP recovery installs?

None!

I thought so, too.

Kari

 

[gregrocker]

ROTFLMAO!

Which manufacturer do you work for? Or are you really that rank of an amateur?

gregrocker, you don't seem to understand the point of all of this and your idiotic post doesn't deserve an answer.

Anyway, because it is obvious you can not understand the complexity of this issue, I'll try to explain it. I will try to make it very simple, so you can understand it too.

I'm talking about what kind of applications a HP recovery system contains because that is the make of the computer OP mentions. If he would have a Dell, I had spoken about Dell.

I think we here on the SevenForums have a responsibility to give true and valid information and answers to the questions. I can not understand somebody giving completely false and even harmful information, to pretend to know something when in fact showing quite clearly he knows nothing thus giving wrong information. These teenage wannabees we meet every day here on forums, some of us are really working to repair the damage this kind of false information and advice causes.

The OP has a HP laptop which has it's own recovery system. This system can not be used without installing those applications I mentioned.

When somebody tells "Erase and delete the recovery system", it is an absolutely idiotic answer to OP. This advice is wrong and could cause severe harm in the future.

I feel I am responsible for the facts, advice and tips I give. That is why I never try to offer my solution if I am not absolutely sure it is true and valid. The OP has got valid, accurate and true information in this thread. If he follows my recommendations, he's going to have no problems.

Kari

I rewrote my post you later quoted (above) after I calmed down. I have a knee-jerk reaction to bullying which is counterproductive since I am a writer to begin with.

Show me where I gave any inaccurate, invalid or untrue information to the OP. I also advised to delete the recovery partition after making the disks since it wouldn't be operable once upgraded to Win7 anyway, explaining later that this is so he can use HP tech support if needed to help him sort out a serious problem, since they will not support clean reinstalls done without their bloatware.

Since the OP is a student, I thought he might like some background on the bloatware included in his recovery disks and the basics to know to advance to doing clean installs vs. using recovery disks in the future. So I gave him conventional wisdom on bloatware in manufacturer's installations and recovery disks, which you then viewed as questioning your original claims (which I had agreed with!) so you blindly attacked my fully legit claims.

Again, please show me where I stated anything untrue or outside of the mainstream of tech enthusiasts.

 

[Kari]

Show me where I gave any inaccurate, invalid or untrue information to the OP.

I was quite sure you don't understand. I was right. You have given no wrong information, I was referring to this:

I agree, those factory recovery partitions have all the bloatware on them. Real computers users get rid of those adware inflated images ASAP. Using a clean copy of your Op system is just so much better.

I criticed you because of this remark you've since posting it already deleted:

ROTFLMAO!

Which manufacturer do you work for? Or are you really that rank of an amateur?

So when the OP asks about HP Pavilion laptops and I tell him about HP Pavilion laptops in my answer, I am either a HP employee or amateur? I still can not understand the logics of that.

Kari

 

[gregrocker]

Show me where I gave any inaccurate, invalid or untrue information to the OP.

I was quite sure you don't understand. I was right. You have given no wrong information, I was referring to this:

I agree, those factory recovery partitions have all the bloatware on them. Real computers users get rid of those adware inflated images ASAP. Using a clean copy of your Op system is just so much better.

I criticed you because of this remark you've since posting it already deleted:

ROTFLMAO!

Which manufacturer do you work for? Or are you really that rank of an amateur?

So when the OP asks about HP Pavilion laptops and I tell him about HP Pavilion laptops in my answer, I am either a HP employee or amateur? I still can not understand the logics of that.

Kari

Which is why I rewrote that knee-jerk reaction, apparently at the same time you were responding to it. I have that reaction to bullies.

You implied that HP laptops have no bloatware. I just spent an hour pulling the bloatware out of an HP laptop at a friend's request, only to have System File Checker find unfixable corruption. So I am clean installing from an HP OEM disk right now.

 

[Kari]

Bailing out. 10-7.

 

[Teerex]

I myself did delete Toshiba's EISA (recovery) partition but only because I was provided with a Toshiba Recovery Disk which will perform the same function. Otherwise I would try making that disk myself, or keep that partition if I couldn't do that..

It's always wise to retain the ability to turn your laptop back to the fresh original 0-day state.. suppose, say, you wanna sell it?

 

[Linden5150]

Ok kari a few more questions,

Will 7 come with a free version of office 2007 ? I decided I am going to do a custom install will my programs be preserved ? I am now not sure if I should go with an upgrade if it means losing my programs I prob. should back them up? but, drivers I know I need to back up ? also this windows.old file that will be created does this contain only windows files OS system files?

EDIT: My mistake I mean Microsoft works (all I really need is powerpoint viewer and word processing)

 

[Kari]

Ok kari a few more questions,

Will 7 come with a free version of office 2007 ? I decided I am going to do a custom install will my programs be preserved ? I am now not sure if I should go with an upgrade if it means losing my programs I prob. should back them up? but, drivers I know I need to back up ? also this windows.old file that will be created does this contain only windows files OS system files?

EDIT: My mistake I mean Microsoft works (all I really need is powerpoint viewer and word processing)

No. To my knowledge the only way you can preserve your free Works included in the original OEM bundle is to do an upgrade installation. Backing up your programs doesn't help you; without some really heavy registry editing only a few so called portable applications work after restoring them to a new OS. Normal applications like Works, Office, Photoshop, Firewall and AV programs etc. have to be reinstalled with appropriate code or key.

This next is my subjective meaning, based only in my own experience and the HP know-how I have. Clean install is normally the better alternative. However HP has been very slow to publish Win7 drivers. That is the reason why I use a mixed upgrade/clean method. I've done it now on several HP Pavilion and HDX series laptops and am still waiting the first issue to occure.

I'm repeating myself now but I think this is an important subject. Simply put, this is the method: (Remember this is one users subjective meaning. I've tested it during the last four months on half a dozen HP laptops; it's not so much but enough to tell me it works.)

• Use Windows Easy Transfer to backup your personal files and folders
• Do a full system recovery using the discs you burned
• Update the Vista until Windows Update tells there are no more updates
• Do a upgrade installation of Win7
• Use Windows Easy Transfer to restore your files and folders
• Install the additional software

This takes a lot of time, this method is suitable when time is no problem. My record was a HDX laptop, a bit under 5 hours. A Pavilion dv9 took almost 11 hours. But the result has always been worth of the time and effort used. I like it when my computers work without problems.

Kari

 

[Linden5150]

Sounds good I will follow this path, can't I only use my recovery discs once ?

 

[Kari]

Sounds good I will follow this path, can't I only use my recovery discs once ?

No, you can use them as often as you like. When you keep you discs safe and intact you can always restore your computer to factory defaults.

Good luck.

Kari

 

[Linden5150]

Ok well The recovery discs worked perfect and I now have a fresh install of vista on my laptop.

OK now I should update update update but I am wondering do I need service pack 2? I have heard that some people have had probs with sp2 and windows 7 upgrade

 

[Antman]

Ok well The recovery discs worked perfect and I now have a fresh install of vista on my laptop.

OK now I should update update update but I am wondering do I need service pack 2? I have heard that some people have had probs with sp2 and windows 7 upgrade

Don't worry about the updates. You are not actually updating Vista as an OS. You are replacing it.