HP Chooses USB 3.0 Over Thunderbolt

[Win7User512]

Hewlett-Packard considered using Intel's Thunderbolt interconnect in new desktop PCs announced Monday, but is sticking with USB 3.0 because of wider support, a company official said.

Details...

I think Intel has an uphill battle with this. No devices on the market support their technology and few, if any, in the foreseeable future.

USB has been a go-to interface between devices. It's like Windows on PCs.

 

[DarkXeno]

Make sense to me, why go to a new port setup when people know USB 2.0 so going with 3.0 and being able to use my old hardware on 3.0 ports like 2.0 ports. The average consumer wont see much of a change between the new standards. Now tell the consumer that they have to buy all new hardware to work with Thunderbolt and we have a issue. Stick with what works HP knows that, when will Intel learn the normal consumer doesnt want to rebuy all their hardware again just for a fancy new port.

 

[Phone Man]

Here is Thunderbolt disk that will be available this summer.

LaCie - LaCie Little Big Disk featuring Thunderbolt Technology

Jim

 

[toughbook]

That's the 1st smart thing that HP has done in my opinion in a very long time.

DarkXeno was spot on. Why change a type of interface that people have known to learn, use and enjoy? I think that the total # of devices needing to be plugged in will go down in time, but it's not going to be to far out until people will be plugging in there USB CORD and and not even thinking about it. There will be a small window of time where people are going to be caught without having a 3.0 plug on a computer or device, but that too shall pass.

 

[Nigsy]

Firewire anyone??

USB has been the industry standard for to long now. It will take something seriously special/ faster to lure manufacturers away from developing USB3 compliant devices.

 

[Dave76]

Let's stick with the tried and true:

32-bit 25-MHz microprocessor
Monochrome Display Adapter
5¼ floppy disk drive
10 MB hard disk with access time of 0.1 second
64 kB RAM
And for a great price US $3,005 (1981)

Who needs all this new fangled tech stuff :sarc:


Famous Quotes:

"But what...is it good for?"
- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of DEC

640K ought to be enough for anybody.
-Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates


USB3 isn't as fast as SATA 6Gb/s and it will likely be obsolete by the end of the year.
Thunderbolt is 10Gb/s, due to going through copper, light Peak uses all optical fiber and is capable of 100Gb/s.

SSDs will soon be moving more to PCIe for the bandwidth.

It will provide a unified interface with enough bandwidth to satisfy virtually everything desktop users need at the same time - DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, USB, FireWire, SATA, you name it.
Daisy chain devices together, and connect everything with one unified connector and port.

Legacy electrical connector devices will work through cables with an electro-optical transceiver on the cable ends so there won’t be any need to use two separate kinds of cables.

Thunderbolt shares the same connectors and cabling with mini DisplayPort, one of the fastest (if not the fastest) desktop interfaces, topping out at 17.28 Gbps.

Thunderbolt is dual-channel, with each channel supporting 10 Gbps of bidirectional bandwidth. That’s a potential 20 Gbps of upstream and 20 Gbps of downstream bandwidth. The connection supports a daisy chain topology, and Thunderbolt also supports power over the cable, 10W to be precise.

Source...

 

[CreepinJesus]

...It will take something seriously special/ faster to lure manufacturers away from developing USB3 compliant devices.

Not to mention cheaper.

 

[Amorphous83]

Kind of hard to imagine Thunderbolt taking off right now for me. It's entirely possible and looks like a great piece of tech, and I know the new Apple computers are being built on the risk/hope that it takes off in the near future, but lots of "promising" and "great" looking new tech stuff have come and went with barely a whisper before. Some of it appearing at the time, much more promising than Thunderbolt does right now. It seems as solid a hold as USB has now, as cheap as it is, that Thunderbolt has a battle on it's hands to take hold, but I'd love to see it happen!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Looks like this is going back to the 80's with a Betamax / VHS type of argument.

If 99% of devices work with USB without major problems and are easily connected to not only most OS'es (including for once even Apple who usually like their own set of standards) but also Virtual machines too -- why on EARTH do we need yet another way of connecting hardware to a PC.

These days how many computers have a PCMCIA card slot any more - I'll bet a few on the forum don't even know what those are even though they aren't that old as devices and as for the smaller express card devices that some later laptops had - well how many people use those either.

In fact even things like internal DVD / CD writers / CD ROM / DVD ROM devices are becoming rarer too -- but the ubiquitous USB device just goes from strength to strength.

I'm not against NEW technology but IMO this is CRAZY to attempt to replace a perfectly working standard - especially as USB 3.0 is probably capable of having a much faster data transfer speed than most of the "Consumer grade" non SSD type of HDD's installed on typical home systems anyway.

No if you want decent devices go IMO for really FAST NET data transfer -- most of the current Network cards have fairly crappy data transfer speeds - especially wireless.

Note also with so called tablet devices eating into the traditional PC market -- the last thing you need is for people to have to go out and buy another whole load of hardware to attach to their PC or tablet.

Stuff will arrive when the market needs it -- how many people at home actually have the need for fibre optic speed technology -- but eventually faster disks etc are always OK.

What the consumer wants on portable machines are SMALLER devices, maybe faster and MUCH LESS power hungry.

We'll have to wait and see -- but new technology doesn't always survive in a harsh market place.
It also needs REAL APPLICATIONS that can show provable benefit by switching to newer technology -- as even in a simple case a decent computer running a 64 bit OS with 4 GB RAM or more will run Photoshop a lot better than the 32 bit system running the same app.


You need to show that the user benefits CONSIDERABLY by switching -- marginal improvements aren't good enough these days -- and if you are usually running things like MS EXCEL - no amount of incredibly fast fibre optic technology will make the slightest bit of difference to your performance in running this type of app.

HDMI now was a justifiable standard since the improvement especially on large screens is very easy for anyone to see. So I'm not against technology improvements at all -- I just need SENSIBLE cost effective ones.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[geeve420]

Hi there
Looks like this is going back to the 80's with a Betamax / VHS type of argument.

If 99% of devices work with USB without major problems and are easily connected to not only most OS'es (including for once even Apple who usually like their own set of standards) but also Virtual machines too -- why on EARTH do we need yet another way of connecting hardware to a PC.

These days how many computers have a PCMCIA card slot any more - I'll bet a few on the forum don't even know what those are even though they aren't that old as devices and as for the smaller express card devices that some later laptops had - well how many people use those either.

In fact even things like internal DVD / CD writers / CD ROM / DVD ROM devices are becoming rarer too -- but the ubiquitous USB device just goes from strength to strength.

I'm not against NEW technology but IMO this is CRAZY to attempt to replace a perfectly working standard - especially as USB 3.0 is probably capable of having a much faster data transfer speed than most of the "Consumer grade" non SSD type of HDD's installed on typical home systems anyway.

No if you want decent devices go IMO for really FAST NET data transfer -- most of the current Network cards have fairly crappy data transfer speeds - especially wireless.

Note also with so called tablet devices eating into the traditional PC market -- the last thing you need is for people to have to go out and buy another whole load of hardware to attach to their PC or tablet.

Stuff will arrive when the market needs it -- how many people at home actually have the need for fibre optic speed technology -- but eventually faster disks etc are always OK.

What the consumer wants on portable machines are SMALLER devices, maybe faster and MUCH LESS power hungry.

We'll have to wait and see -- but new technology doesn't always survive in a harsh market place.
It also needs REAL APPLICATIONS that can show provable benefit by switching to newer technology -- as even in a simple case a decent computer running a 64 bit OS with 4 GB RAM or more will run Photoshop a lot better than the 32 bit system running the same app.


You need to show that the user benefits CONSIDERABLY by switching -- marginal improvements aren't good enough these days -- and if you are usually running things like MS EXCEL - no amount of incredibly fast fibre optic technology will make the slightest bit of difference to your performance in running this type of app.

HDMI now was a justifiable standard since the improvement especially on large screens is very easy for anyone to see. So I'm not against technology improvements at all -- I just need SENSIBLE cost effective ones.

Cheers
jimbo

+1 Well said

 

[Phone Man]

Whats that old saying. "build it and they will come".
All new technology had to start somewhere and the ones that have the potential for upgrades will survive in the long run. Thunderbolt (copper version of Light Peak) has just started to appear and has vast possibilities. As was stated Light Peak using fiber can scale to 100Gbs and over longer distances then the copper Thunderbolt. Thunderbold at present can run PCIe 2.0 and Display Port protocols but can be implemented to run USB and other protocols so with the right implementation most current peripherals can run over a Light Peak circuit thought a small hub type interface. The design is very adaptable and the speed is awesome which I believe will make it a success, but time will tell. I give it a Thumbs Up.

Jim

 

[Dave76]

Agree, it's time for some new fast peripheral interfaces.

Hope this kicks off by the end of the year or something better comes out.

 

[Phone Man]

Hewlett-Packard considered using Intel's Thunderbolt interconnect in new desktop PCs announced Monday, but is sticking with USB 3.0 because of wider support, a company official said.

Details...

I think Intel has an uphill battle with this. No devices on the market support their technology and few, if any, in the foreseeable future.

USB has been a go-to interface between devices. It's like Windows on PCs.

Here is a quote from that article.


Thunderbolt currently supports the PCI Express and DisplayPort protocols, which helps reduce the number of connectors needed to attach peripherals to computers. Intel insists Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 are complementary technologies, and has said it will build chip sets with support for both USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt starting next year.
Intel plans to open up Thunderbolt development this quarter, and is also working with partners to develop products as it tries to build out an ecosystem around the interconnect. LaCie and Western Digital have demonstrated portable storage products, but are not yet selling devices. Companies such as Canon, AJA, BlackMagic, Matrox and Sonnet have announced support for Thunderbolt.


Looks like lots of support coming soon.

Jim

 

[Win7User512]

Hewlett-Packard considered using Intel's Thunderbolt interconnect in new desktop PCs announced Monday, but is sticking with USB 3.0 because of wider support, a company official said.

Details...

I think Intel has an uphill battle with this. No devices on the market support their technology and few, if any, in the foreseeable future.

USB has been a go-to interface between devices. It's like Windows on PCs.

Here is a quote from that article.


Thunderbolt currently supports the PCI Express and DisplayPort protocols, which helps reduce the number of connectors needed to attach peripherals to computers. Intel insists Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 are complementary technologies, and has said it will build chip sets with support for both USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt starting next year.
Intel plans to open up Thunderbolt development this quarter, and is also working with partners to develop products as it tries to build out an ecosystem around the interconnect. LaCie and Western Digital have demonstrated portable storage products, but are not yet selling devices. Companies such as Canon, AJA, BlackMagic, Matrox and Sonnet have announced support for Thunderbolt.


Looks like lots of support coming soon.

Jim

I still believe Intel will try to have Thunderbolt "win" vs USB 3.0, despite their nicey-nice "complimentary" technology phrases. They aren't in the position yet to be the "aggressor".

Anyone heard of those companies other than Canon, WD, and maybe BlackMagic?

It's like the lopsided Playstation vs Nintendo 64, or PS2 vs Gamecube battles. Just because you get a lot of little known companies to help doesn't mean you'll win.

My point is it will take a lot of time for this technology to take the place of USB. Hence, my "uphill battle" remark.

 

[Phone Man]

I agree it will take a while to replace USB, which may never happen, but I see newer motherboards offering Thundabolt as an additional port along with USB, ESATA and probably Firewire. Most motherboards still offer Firewire ports which is getting old. At least now Thundabolt is off the drawing board and is being implemented. The great thing about Light Peak is it can be implemented to run these other protocols, as it is basically a transport medium.

Jim

 

[Win7User512]

I agree it will take a while to replace USB, which may never happen, but I see newer motherboards offering Thundabolt as an additional port along with USB, ESATA and probably Firewire. Most motherboards still offer Firewire ports which is getting old. At least now Thundabolt is off the drawing board and is being implemented. The great thing about Light Peak is it can be implemented to run these other protocols, as it is basically a transport medium.

Jim

Yeah, I chose my current motherboard with Firewire as an important factor. My MiniDV camcorder uses it. I see dwindling numbers of devices using it. It's manly hard drives, flash media, etc now. I think Firewire is on the way out.

 

[DarkXeno]

I agree it will take a while to replace USB, which may never happen, but I see newer motherboards offering Thundabolt as an additional port along with USB, ESATA and probably Firewire. Most motherboards still offer Firewire ports which is getting old. At least now Thundabolt is off the drawing board and is being implemented. The great thing about Light Peak is it can be implemented to run these other protocols, as it is basically a transport medium.

Jim

Yeah, I chose my current motherboard with Firewire as an important factor. My MiniDV camcorder uses it. I see dwindling numbers of devices using it. It's manly hard drives, flash media, etc now. I think Firewire is on the way out.

I think the problem with Firewire is it never became cheap enough for Joe Shmo $60 Wal-mart video cam. If Intel can get a ton of people to create items for Thunderbolt and get the price of the items at Joe Shmo gotta buy level then they will have a winner on their hands, but Im afraid its going to be an item for us techies for awhile.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
It WILL take time -- there's nothing wrong in people designing for the future but PRACTICAL applications need to exist for potentially new devices.

Now I for one would BUY a FAST 500 TB or 1PB (1 Petabyte = 1000 * 1 TB) disk if it was cheap enough and the MOBO and OS could actually drive it - I scan all bills / Bank statements etc already so apart from images and music I have pretty well all my Household bills / Bank statements etc on disk already -- almost NO paper any more -- even Income tax records (What's Income tax ??) so people's need for larger storage devices is actually a given.

Just look at numbers of people using those nice little self powered 320 GB / 500 GB WD passport usb drives. A few years ago even Corporates would have wondered what on earth do you need 500 GB for -- now this is very much in private domain too.

I'm still skeptical that we actually at this time need a newer device / interface -- I would welcome SMALLER(PHYSICAL SIZE) FASTER LESS POWER HUNGRY devices first.

Whatever happens PLEASE don't let us get into another "Format" war -- remember the B/S with DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD+R, Dual layer, Blu ray and worst of all the HD / DVD that never made it.

Even "Multi-Format" devices are no real solution as these are over complex and expensive.

We need a CHEAP easily implementable COMMON standard even if it's not the ultimate best in technology.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Lordbob75]

USB isn't going anywhere for a long time. It is too ingrained, and its backwards compatible.
Hell, it works GREAT for keyboards and mice.

However, a faster transferring port is always a good thing, assuming that it can be made as widespread as USB. Proprietary crap sucks, no matter how "awesome" it might be.

~Lordbob

 

[Britton30]

Let's stick with the tried and true:

32-bit 25-MHz microprocessor
Monochrome Display Adapter
5¼ floppy disk drive
10 MB hard disk with access time of 0.1 second
64 kB RAM
And for a great price US $3,005 (1981)

Who needs all this new fangled tech stuff :sarc:

And someone once said, "I don't know how anyone could use more than one megabyte", referrinf to storage capacity.