Installing numerous PCs from a master build - Is this possible

[theog]

I build and sell PC's to small businesses.

As an OEM System Builder, you are being paid to build & support your builds.

 

[Layback Bear]

Post 2,3,4,6, I have read again and see no misguiding information. They all give you ways of doing it and of course mentioned buying a Product key for each build. In your later post you find out you can't install all the operating system on different computers without a proper different Product key for each computer, which has been mentioned many times. You mentioned in one of your post that you wondered why Microsoft didn't put this little piece of information in the first part of the agreement instead of at the end. I think most of your problems mount to you not understanding the agreement with Microsoft that you need. I think using post #2 and a proper Builders License from Microsoft would guide you in the right direction. When you get the License agreement that you like and have problems come back and see us. We will help. Being a builder of computers for retail market you should have no problems sorting through a few post that don't quiet give you the information your looking for.

 

[w3a537]

Well, posts as follows:

1. My initial question.

2. Good information.

3.a Wrong information, you cannot clone/image to dis-similar hardware,
as correctly stated in paragraph 9 of the link. You need to generalize
in some manner.

3.b Correct.

4. Wrong information, you cannot clone/image to dis-similar hardware, see 3.a.

5. My response to 4 which referrs to 3.a.

6. No, It's not a partitioning error I made, it was my incrrrect and failed
attempt to try to clone to dis-similar hardware.

7. I get an error when trying to view these links.

8. Another response I made.

9. Wrong information. There are PCs with the 100mb partition
and PCs without. I'm in the second class. And no I don't have
a hidden 100mm partition that I am not aware of.

What does this have to do with dis-similar hardware any?

10. I'm confused.

11. Good detect, Yes the TeraByte product does an image. See my
admission in 6.

12. Good information.

13. I didn't make these mistakes either.

14. End of story, failure to understand that I'm
looking for reliable help.

15. What is a SEVENFORUMS BUSINESS ACCOUT?
This still has not been answered.

16. Peace out, possibly asking me to quit asking for proper
information when I know for a fact that have recieved
some incorrect information.

17. SEVENFORUMS BUSINESS ACCOUNT question again.

=====

I understand that I need to be using the propr licenses.

=====

From here out this forum has been good.

 

[w3a537]

Post 2,3,4,6, I have read again and see no misguiding information.
They all give you ways of doing it

You cannot IMAGE/CLONE to dis-similar hardware which is a lot of the things
I am being told to do in 2-6. You JUST CANNOT. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS.
Please see the other post.

and of course mentioned buying a Product key for each build. In your later post you
find out you can't install all the operating system on different computers without
a proper different Product key for each computer,

NEGATIVE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE

I didn't discover any such thing. I am asking for a way
to install a master to dis-similar hardware.

To state it another way, my question involves hardware and software.
Not licenses. I will properly license my PCs.

I fully intend to get the proper licenses.

The problem at this point is my question of HOW TO
perform a MASTER INSTALL and then I will properly
license it. I haven't even gotten to the license
installation yet.

My problem is dis-similar hardware and how to properly
and legally install things.

You seem to think, that PROPER LICENSES will
make it possible for me to install to dis-similar
hardware. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Sorry.

which has been mentioned many times. You mentioned in one of your post
that you wondered why Microsoft didn't put this little piece of information
in the first part of the agreement instead of at the end. I think most of your
problems mount to you not understanding the agreement with Microsoft that
you need.

What MS needed to do was to put the licensing first, before the install instructioins.

The alogrithm below (simplified) is not a good one, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

1, MS is not reresponsible ...
2, Perform step 1.
3, Perform step 2.
4, Perform step 3.
5, Perform step 4.
6, Only a type AA license is acceptable for this procedure.
If you have any other license type then you may not
finish. Steps 2-5 have been a waste of time for you.

A better aloghrighm follows ...

1, MS is not reresponsible ...
2, You need a type AA license, if you need one please purchase it before continuing.
3, Perform step 1.
4, Perform step 2.
5, Perform step 3.
6, Perform step 4.

Congradulations you are finished.

I think using post #2 and a proper Builders License from Microsoft
would guide you in the right direction. When you get the License
agreement that you like and have problems come back and see us.

Why do you continue to beat on this license thing.
My first post stated clearly (please read) that I
wanted help with dis-similar hardware.

We will help. Being a builder of computers for retail market you
should have no problems sorting through a few post that don't
quiet give you the information your looking for.

Sorry but you have totally mis-understood the issue, repeatidly, repeatidly.
And nobody else has stepped clarify my question.
I will continue in this forum until things get straightened out.
Or you people may just telly me to go away.

==========

Could someone else please step in and put this
thread back on proper course?

Thank you all, Steve Broshears ...

PS, I thought this might be a language issue but you seem to be in OHIO.

PS, I took 2 hours to write my initial post and I don't think it is confusing.

Steve ...

 

[cluberti]

You cannot IMAGE/CLONE to dis-similar hardware which is a lot of the things. I am being told to do in 2-6. You JUST CANNOT. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS. Please see the other post.

One of the benefits to the way Microsoft has re-written the driver model of the OS (since Vista) and changed sysprep is so you *can* clone to dissimilar hardware. You just have to do it right (JIT driver injection, build your template machine into a VM, use Microsoft's tools to capture/distribute the OS, etc.). If you don't do it right, you can (and likely will) end up with an OS that doesn't work once re-applied to other hardware (especially older imaging/driver management tools designed around XP - these always seem to break imaging, and they're just not necessary anymore). Also, you *will* need to re-activate the OS, and provide a valid product key, no matter what type of OS it is.

I am asking for a way to install a master to dis-similar hardware. To state it another way, my question involves hardware and software. Not licenses. I will properly license my PCs.

Anything that requires a driver to survive sysprep will require you to do things a very specific way (persistalldeviceinstalls). I don't know for sure what specifics you're trying to achieve here (if anything - again, it's still not 100% clear what you are and aren't doing, and what specifically your issues are. If I missed them in a previous post, I do apologize.

The problem at this point is my question of HOW TO perform a MASTER INSTALL and then I will properly license it. I haven't even gotten to the license installation yet. My problem is dis-similar hardware and how to properly and legally install things.

This can be done, but it's not as simple as install, inject a gigantic driver pack, sysprep, and reboot anymore - nor should it be. If you're comfortable with XP imaging, you're in for a somewhat rude awakening (especially if you skipped Vista at all), unfortunately - things have changed (for the better, but you'll have a learning curve).

Could someone else please step in and put this thread back on proper course?

Be careful with your attitude - folks are trying to help, and in reading this thread, I came to the same sorts of conclusions others did about what was and wasn't working until I read between the lines. I can help, but you need to calm down a bit. You're probably a little (or a lot) frustrated, and I can empathise, but you have to keep a level head if and when possible, especially on the internet .

 

[w3a537]

Please re-read my first post.

Please note that in my initial post I stated that
I would supply all the necessary licenses.

Is true (factual), Steve...

Do it right, certainly. In my first post I asked you people "how do I do this"?
This applies several times.

I have stated that what I am asking for is good (correct) information.

I have tried to enhance my explination several times

Please re-read my initial post as a starting point.

How did this thread get this way?

Steve Broshears ...

 

[win7clutz]

I know I’m going to get smacked for this but you might consider an attempt to sharpen your own skill set before selling your services. Not understanding system prep, how Win7 partitions your drives, or removing drivers from your image file suggest that you may be somewhat in over your head. These are all very basic concepts and hardly something that requires MS Support, or for that matter, SevenForums support. There are great people here willing to help you, but remember they are offering their support free, you’re not purchasing it. So a little appreciation and a little less aggressiveness goes a long way here.
Best Regards:

 

[gregrocker]

Couldn't have said it better. No clutz are you.
Steve, I never thought you were planning to run afoul on licenses and never thought OEM partner was at all an option here, so I sought to clarify that you are planning to use retail licenses and that your best approach is to use SysPrep.

Carl may have a better solution from which we can all learn as he is one of the top teachers we have here.

 

[cluberti]

How did this thread get this way?

Good question. However, I did re-read your first post, and it's just not thick on the details. However, instead of beat you up on it, I'll just answer the questions you posed in order, and wait for your response:

Is this possible? How?

Yes, indeed. If you're doing onesie-twosie customer installs (rather than gigantic enterprise rollouts), I recommend using MDT for this.

I've seen a few references to commercial software that does this. Recommendations?

There are software packages (like Macrium and Acronis) that do this, but they are in the mold of backup/disaster recovery imaging, rather than business rollout image maintenance. Also, given the way they work, they can sometimes have issues with imaging to dissimilar hardware from the original source, keeping the image updated, etc. Make no mistake that there's nothing wrong with either of those software packages, but they really are designed for home use or business disaster recovery (and have to be licensed as such if you do - very expensive per seat that way), rather than a more business scenario (images to put on multiple machines, keeping the image updated easily, etc). I still suggest MDT for this. It's free, uses Microsoft's tools, is supported (officially) by Microsoft, and the tool is not that difficult to use and understand once you take the time to learn it.

 

[w3a537]

And I came here to ask you people for help in sharpening my skills.

One more thing, I am a retired mainframe system manager.

Before this next subject comes into question, I have always understood
cloning and imaging to be as described in the following link.

Disk cloning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks, Steve ...

 

[cluberti]

Disk cloning was necessary (for Windows systems, at least) prior to Windows Vista mainly for two reasons. First, Microsoft really didn't provide imaging tools - in fact, they didn't suggest creating/keeping images at all before Windows 2000 (they supported it via sysprep, but they didn't recommend it). Second, even after imaging, there weren't any tools otherwise to handle re-deployment of a sysprep'ed machine. This brought the rise of Ghost (and other tools, but Ghost was king) for sector-based cloning of a hard disk. However, since Microsoft released Vista (and later OSes, including Win7) as images already, the first part of this was already done by the vendor. The second piece, cloning, can (and should) be done with Microsoft's tools using Microsoft's format (WIM). WIM files are file-based images of a system, rather than sector-based, meaning they can be single-instance storage (so you can store multiple versions of the same OS in the same WIM file, similar to how it's done on the Windows DVD, and only take up the space of one file if each "image" contains the same file), it can be updated offline (adding patches, drivers, adding/removing features, etc), does not contain any filesystem or partition information in the image (so it can be restored just about anywhere), and doesn't require a destructive wipe of existing data before applying the image.

Again, cloning is most definitely XP-era (and older) technology, and tools that do such should be avoided going forward. Also, even Windows XP can be imaged using the WIM container format using Microsoft's tools (the XP OS inside a WIM can't be updated or maintained like Vista or Win7 can, but you still get the other benefits of using the WIM container versus a sector-based image).

 

[w3a537]

Thank you Thank you.

My customers are in the two to ten range.
Say a real estate office.

What is MDT. Possibly a link please.

I am currently working with Paragon as
recommended here. I have my quote
(good price per PC) (some sort of MS
license included per PC). I have an
evaluation copy. I am working with
tech support to overcome a conflict
with the TeraByte boot manager I
have used for 8 years. I told them
that I tse TeraByte at the very
beginning.

Excellent support.

Thanks again, Steve ...

 

[cluberti]

I would say neither of those are needed, nor would they be recommended. They're old-design technology, and they're being used with OSes they weren't really designed to support natively. MDT == Microsoft Deployment Toolkit, which is a user interface on top of the AIK (automated installation kit) and potentially WDS (windows deployment services), which allows you to install windows, applications, drivers, etc in a repeatable (and if necessary, easily debugged) manner. The really good part about it is that, other than a server license if you want to use network builds from WDS versus installing from a USB key (which I recommend if you can swing the server on the network), it's free.

Instead of go over MDT in detail here, I'll just shameless plug my own blog where I've discussed MDT in detail, including how it can be used for smaller organizations:
http://www.cluberti.com/blog/2009/08/10/mdt-2010-and-deployment-from-a-usb-key/

 

[w3a537]

I think there are multiple definations of image and clone.
This could lead to confusion.

I use TeraByte IMAGE to back up my accountant's PC
4 times a year FOR EXAMPLE. This makes an exact
compressed copy of the OS partition on an external
HDD.

She knows to make daily copies of her data disk.
She is pretty good at this, rotating everithing
to external storage (her car) and her save box.

Steve ...

 

[cluberti]

An image and a clone are usually used interchangeably, although most folks don't use "clone" anymore (hence why everything is an "image"). Again, unless it's using WIM natively, I wouldn't touch it for anything more than single-user (or home use) backup and restore/recovery.

 

[w3a537]

The first two pages of your site read very well.
Well written, structured, ordered, well formatted.
This is very important.

I will start "studying" tomorrow.

Thank you very much.
What is your occupation?

Steve ...

 

[cluberti]

Take a guess based on my blog .

In all seriousness, I do deployment (planning to execution) consulting and performance / system analysis for the most part, as well as doing a decent amount of app compat (including IE), virtualization, and VDI consultation and troubleshooting, in my day-to-day. I also spend a lot of time building and delivering training in those areas as well, and probably see around 40 different environments in a year.

 

[dustywoodworker]

Windows 7 creates a 100MB partition during the install process, unless you stop it from doing so. It is hidden, so you do not see it and certainly you won't have a C drive with 100MB. This partition is for the bitlocker feature.

If your original (donor) computer had Windows 7 installed and it created this partition, and you try to restore the image to a computer without the partition, you will most certainly have problems since Windows will be looking for this partition.

So how can I ascertain that the 100MB partition was created and does it work? Since I am using Home Edition x86, which does not support bitlocker, do I still have the recovery feature embedded in the partition?

 

[gregrocker]

Look in Disk Mgmt. If you have Sys Reserved 100mb partition and it is marked System Active then it is functioning correctly.

Then restart and tap F8 key repeatedly until you enter Advanced Boot Options, to see if Repair console is there and that it boots and works.

If one images the OS partition without SysReserved, the fix is to mark Win7 partition Active then boot the DVD Repair console or Repair CD to run Startup Repair - Run 3 Separate Times until it writes the System boot files to Win7 partition and starts. You can also use free Partition Wizard bootable CD
to mark 7 partition Active, then click to highlight HD and from Disk tab select Rebuild MBR which can preclude the need to run the Repairs from disk.

 

[Layback Bear]

This is why.

Thank you all.

I just wish MS had told me all of this
the first time I asked them.

Steve Broshears, thanks again ...

----------------------------------------------------------
This is why I mentioned the proper agreement with Microsoft before trying anything else. Spending all the time it takes to learn and to do what you are trying to do would be wasted without the proper license.
If I was trying to do what you are trying to do I would take another long look at what cluberti has posted.