Is IE really that bad?

[bigseb]

When I was younger I was inclined to cram all sorts of extra software in my PC, mainly in an effort to give Microsoft the finger. As the years went by I carried on using all sorts of third party software out of habit. he last two years or so though I have been questioning this as Microsoft actually has almost everything I need. So I reverted abck to WMP and actually like it far more. Stopped using Avira after years and years due to update problems and found MSE is great. Still use FF and Thunderbird though. I may buy Office one day (I hear it's awesome and head and shoulders above Thunderbird). When it comes to browsers though its a different matter. Why is IE so unpopular? All these years later I can't remember why I choose FF or why I am sticking to it. Tried Chrome, Opera, Safari and two other obscure ones but these things don't seem to wow me like they used to...

Please don't link me to interviews or 'best of browsers' pages, I have read a lot of these lately. I would like to hear the reasons fellow members here have for disliking IE.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Golden]

Mmm....its an interesting question. I'm not sure its a case of disliking IE, just that people find others fit their personal preferences better.

I used to use IE until 6 months ago, when someone mentioned that Chrome is faster. I decided to try for myself, and found it to be the case, in my experience anyway. Some of the Chrome extensions (apps in Firefox speak) were also very useful. Based on that I decided to stick with Chrome, but I'm always happy to change back if future IE's deliver something that I would like.

I have no emotional stake in any browser - I just use what i am comfortable with at the time

Regards,
Golden

 

[Wishmaster]

Personal preference I think more than anything anymore.

I started using IE a couple years back and have just stuck with it.
I still have FF though, as I find there are a couple websites or a occasional situations where FF simply does a better job. But these are few instances, and IE is more than capable.
IE is a good and capable browser and I've actually grown to like it and become comfortable with it.


I think the reason many dislike it may be due to the past. Kinda like how Norton has a bad rep and continues today in the AV world even though its a totally different product (for the better)

Perhaps past experiences/reputation are still hurting it?

 

[ThrashZone]

I always use ie10 and I use ie9 on a laptop but have seen no real issue which would stop that usage,
I have used chrome but I didn't like it at all so I removed it fairly quickly,
Never saw a need for firefox.
So in my case ie has always been functional and primary but yes there are allot of complainants out there but there are also too many security suites which hamper ie's ability to function.
It's easy to point the blame at a browser but is it actually the issue or some other reason/ no-one wants to dig any deeper ?

 

[LMiller7]

I really don't have anything against IE but currently do not use it. Some years ago I switched to Opera and don't wish to change. I am not claiming that Opera is the best browser, in fact it probably isn't. But I am not inclined to take the time for a proper analysis necessary to make an objective decision.

FireFox is currently a very popular browser and many people choose it for that very reason and that continues to feed the statistics. Even though the reasons for it's popularity may have long ceased to exist.

Millions of people around the world use IE exclusively and are completely happy with it. Most decisions to use other browsers are not very objective, and I don't exclude myself.

 

[bigseb]

I still have FF though, as I find there are a couple websites or a occasional situations where FF simply does a better job. But these are few instances, and IE is more than capable.

I have noticed this too. I can't use Facebook in FF. Nor can my wife. Works fine in IE though

I think the reason many dislike it may be due to the past. Kinda like how Norton has a bad rep and continues today in the AV world even though its a totally different product (for the better) Perhaps past experiences/reputation are still hurting it?

I agree with this.

 

[dc2000]

Let me give you my two cents on not using IE.

First off, to what LMiller7 said about "Millions of people around the world use IE exclusively."

That is because IE is installed by default exclusively on their Windows computers when they buy them. That's it. Whenever someone asks me to set up their computer after they buy it, I always give them a choice of IE, FF and Chrome and they always choose a browser other than IE.

I personally use Google Chrome web browser. So let me give you the reasons why:

1. Chrome runs in its own sandbox. Which is a major security advantage in my book. In other words Chrome runs with security permissions of your logged in Windows user -- and I pray to god that you're not logging in as an administrator to your Windows account

Other browsers, as far as I know, IE and FF, run in a "tiered mode" -- they have their "kernel" executing with admin privileges and then the UI part runs on a user-mode level. Which is OK, as long as the browser doesn't have security loopholes in the code, which as we well know, is not the case for all of them. So if there's a new browser exploit in IE or FF that may give some rogue site access to your system, an attacker may gain admin rights to your computer because of the web browser's architecture. With Chrome, all they would get is the same low privileged access as your logged in user. Big advantage in my book.

2. Each tab in Chrome runs in its own process. I know that IE and FF do not do that (at least the versions to date.) The major advantage here is reliability. If one tab becomes unstable, slow, etc. a browser itself, or you, via a built-in task manager can simply terminate the bad tab without losing the rest of your open tabs.

3. Chrome is faster. Hands down. With one caveat though. If you have less than 4GB of RAM, Chrome may take a toll on your system with many open tabs. In my case I have 8GB installed and it runs really fast. In everything -- opening up from a fresh start to loading pages. It's funny. I noticed it many times. Chrome loads Microsoft's own Hotmail page way faster than IE itself on my system

4. Chrome (and FF) have better HTML5 and CSS3 support. For some people it is not a big deal, but for me it's important. For instance, I love those resizable text input windows. Some sites (like this one for instance) have very small text fields. Chrome (and FF) allow to stretch it to whatever size you find comfortable. That's just one thing though. Search for more features of CSS3 and you'll see what I mean. (Although true to say, most CSS3 stuff is supported by IE10 now.)

5. Chrome comes with the built-in Flash. I don't know if you know how many security vulnerabilities Adobe has in their Adobe Flash plugin? It's mind boggling. I'm sure we're all aware of endless updates that they issue to that thing too, hah? There must be a reason for that. So with Chrome I was able to completely remove Adobe Flash plug-in from my system and kill two birds with one stone -- make it more secure and get rid of incessant updates nuisance.

6. Chrome comes with the built-in PDF reader. The same as above, Adobe Acrobat Reader is riddled with security holes. So by using Chrome you can uninstall that as well!

7. Chrome can synchronize open tabs across multiple devices. This feature is awesome! I can work with something on my desktop, then keep all the tabs open, go to my laptop and have them open there. Works across platforms as well.

8. Chrome (or FF) can reopen all opened tabs upon rebooting or in case of a computer crash. I don't know about you, but I keep a ton of tabs open (for sites I've been going through.) So when Windows updates come up, it would be a major pain-in-you-know-what to reopen my tabs when computer restarts. With Chrome (and some easy initial set-up) I no longer have to worry about that. I can simply reboot computer without worrying to close Chrome and when it loads up and I run Chrome it pulls all my open tabs right up.

9. Chrome does seamless auto-updates. All you need to do is reopen it to be up-to-date. It doesn't ask all those questions like FF does, it simply updates and does it pretty quickly too. And it doesn't nag you to reboot computer or log in as administrator.

10. Also, I'm not sure if I can mention it here, if you install Adblock Plus plugin for your Chrome or FF, it will be the best thing you ever installed on your system. Commercials on sites and especially in online videos (YouTube for instance) will be a thing of the past And, no, it doesn't come for IE.

11. This is very technical stuff, but it's important concerning online security. IE has a bad implementation of Extended Validation for SSL certificates, or HTTPS connections. Read here, especially where it says "The Trouble With Internet Explorer" in the middle of the page.


Now, why I don't like IE in particular:

1. Bad UI. For instance I have to copy and paste a lot of text. The way IE does it is cumbersome, the selection skips blocks of text and then when you paste it, new lines are all messed up, etc. Not cool! I tried it many times. If I load the same page in Chrome or FF, it copies and pastes without any issues. Plus, IE didn't have any grammar highlighting until recently. No resizable text fields. And so on.

2. Slow. Whatever Microsoft says in their ads, but general sites don't run fast in IE.

3. Really bad gaping security holes in IE prior to IE10. So if you're using IE9, IE8, or worse IE7 or IE6, it's like keeping your backdoor unlocked at night. Seriously.

4. Not complete HTML5, CSS3 support. I should admit that IE10 is very close to be on par with the rest of the world, but still there're some issues remaining.

5. IE is deeply rooted into the OS, which makes the whole system potentially vulnerable for browser exploits.


Well, IE has some pros too:

1. It is the only web browser that is supported by an enterprise/corporate environment. For instance, its seamless integration with Active Directory's Group Policy restrictions is very good.

2. IE10 seems to be quite nice (UI mostly) when running as Metro app on Windows 8 tablets.

3. Some older web sites run in IE only, so you need to have it in the background... just in case. Well, not that you can uninstall it either

 

[ThrashZone]

lol two cents ? :sarc:

 

[Layback Bear]

I don't use I.E. because I haven't figured out a good way to make the size of the picture and text meet my needs on a 40 in. screen. All the settings in View don't get the job done.

 

[Gary]

I don't use IE as I find Firefox a better choice and it is able to be customized to the users liking. You can even get the source code for it. I doubt that you can with IE.

 

[ThrashZone]

All the settings in View don't get the job done.

Most of the important settings are in dpi and zoom,
Which my sweet spot is 140% dpi and 150 zoom.
You might even try Internet options/ Advance/ Use software rendering instead of gpu rendering ?

 

[bigseb]

Great answers everyone. As I said earlier, I use FF. For the most part I am happy with. The main problems I have are it crashes occasionally (or gets stuck) and it updates alot. Yet I feel comfortable with it.

The problem listed so with IE I have experienced too. While I know of its shortcomings the idea of having so much 'native to the OS', for want of a better phrase, really appeals to me. Doubt I'll be sewitching over just yet though.

Thanks everyone!

 

[logicearth]

1. Chrome runs in its own sandbox. Which is a major security advantage in my book. In other words Chrome runs with security permissions of your logged in Windows user -- and I pray to god that you're not logging in as an administrator to your Windows account

Other browsers, as far as I know, IE and FF, run in a "tiered mode" -- they have their "kernel" executing with admin privileges and then the UI part runs on a user-mode level. Which is OK, as long as the browser doesn't have security loopholes in the code, which as we well know, is not the case for all of them. So if there's a new browser exploit in IE or FF that may give some rogue site access to your system, an attacker may gain admin rights to your computer because of the web browser's architecture. With Chrome, all they would get is the same low privileged access as your logged in user. Big advantage in my book.

Internet Explorer 8+ runs in a Sandbox by default, just like Google Chrome. In IE it is called Protection Mode and was the first browser to make use of the sandboxing features in Windows Vista. Btw, if you turned UAC off then sandboxing is disabled for both IE and Chrome as both require UAC to function.

2. Each tab in Chrome runs in its own process. I know that IE and FF do not do that (at least the versions to date.) The major advantage here is reliability. If one tab becomes unstable, slow, etc. a browser itself, or you, via a built-in task manager can simply terminate the bad tab without losing the rest of your open tabs.

Your information is really out of date. IE8+ Runs tabs in multiple processes. The only different, IE runs tabs in groups on different processes. Again IE8 was the first browser to do this.

10. Also, I'm not sure if I can mention it here, if you install Adblock Plus plugin for your Chrome or FF, it will be the best thing you ever installed on your system. Commercials on sites and especially in online videos (YouTube for instance) will be a thing of the past And, no, it doesn't come for IE.

IE9+ Has the Adblocker builtin.

11. This is very technical stuff, but it's important concerning online security. IE has a bad implementation of Extended Validation for SSL certificates, or HTTPS connections. Read here, especially where it says "The Trouble With Internet Explorer" in the middle of the page.

That doesn't effect internet pages, only the local intranet network. GRC is trying to over sell this. In order for an attack to put EV status on a certificate in order to fool IE, that attacker must have compete control over your computer in order to add their certificate to Windows. This alone requires administrative power. It cannot be done remotely. This is not a "bad implementation" of EV certificates. Again, this is not a vulnerability, the certificate must be added manually to the computer.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd759060.aspx

The Extended Validation tab is used by administrators to add an Extended Validation (EV) certificate policy to root certificates that are distributed by Group Policy. Adding the EV certificate policy to root certificates and certificates issued to intranet [AKA. Local Network] Web sites provides a visual indicator that a [Intranet] site is trustworthy.

This is for corporate networks, if you have not yet guessed. So hopefully that clears that up.

 

[DavidE]

I don't use I.E. because I haven't figured out a good way to make the size of the picture and text meet my needs on a 40 in. screen. All the settings in View don't get the job done.

What do you use?
I use Firefox with the NoSquint add-on.
NoSquint has Full Zoom and Text Zoom per site.
I haven't found another browser/add-on with that capabiltity.

 

[Layback Bear]

I use a program in Firefox but I don't remember the name and I can't find it. It was given to me a long time ago by Greg. It just has a - and a + on the tool bar.
I have Bookmarked the NoSquint page to look at later.
Thankyou.

 

[dc2000]

Internet Explorer 8+ runs in a Sandbox by default, just like Google Chrome. In IE it is called Protection Mode and was the first browser to make use of the sandboxing features in Windows Vista. Btw, if you turned UAC off then sandboxing is disabled for both IE and Chrome as both require UAC to function.
...
Your information is really out of date. IE8+ Runs tabs in multiple processes. The only different, IE runs tabs in groups on different processes. Again IE8 was the first browser to do this.
...
IE9+ Has the Adblocker builtin.
...
That doesn't effect internet pages, only the local intranet network. GRC is trying to over sell this. In order for an attack to put EV status on a certificate in order to fool IE, that attacker must have compete control over your computer in order to add their certificate to Windows. This alone requires administrative power. It cannot be done remotely. This is not a "bad implementation" of EV certificates. Again, this is not a vulnerability, the certificate must be added manually to the computer.

Just want to shoot a quick comment. All of this is totally wrong.

You need to understand what sandboxing is. What you quoted there is not sandboxing, that is an end-user nuisance and a security vulnerability to browser exploits.

IE indeed does group some tabs and some doesn't. That is not a solution though!

Also, that is news to me that IE9 has Adblock Plus plugin built in Have you even looked at what that is? You're probably confusing a popup blocker with it...

And lastly, I hope you read through that GRC page, because from what you wrote there, it's clear that you didn't understand it.

Again, I'm not attacking IE. I like it in a corporate environment, like I pointed out in my last comment.

So please get your info straight.

 

[logicearth]

Just want to shoot a quick comment. All of this is totally wrong.

Afraid not. none of it is wrong. The only mistake I made was thinking of the wrong version that introduced Protection Mode (Sandboxing) it was IE7 that first introduced it not 8.

You need to understand what sandboxing is. What you quoted there is not sandboxing, that is an end-user nuisance and a security vulnerability to browser exploits.

I know exactly what sandboxing is. You don't seem to understand what UAC does, you think popping up a UI dialog is all UAC does. You are mistaken. Mandatory Integrity Control is the core function of UAC which is used to create sandboxes on Windows Vista and future versions of Windows.

Internet Explorer 7 introduces a MIC-based "Protected Mode" setting to control whether a web page is opened as a low-integrity process or not (provided the operating system supports MIC), based on security zone settings, thereby preventing some classes of security vulnerabilities. Since Internet Explorer in this case runs as a Low IL process, it cannot modify system level objects—file and registry operations are instead virtualized. Adobe Reader 10 and Google Chrome are two other notable applications that are introducing the technology in order to reduce their vulnerability to malware.

-----

IE indeed does group some tabs and some doesn't. That is not a solution though!

What is not a solution? Isolating a website from another website in different processes? IE does that. Tabs are grouped per-site. (For example, multiple tabs of sevenforums.com would be one group, multiple tabs of another site would be another group.) Google Chrome is just over-zealous in its approach, over kill, and it doesn't need to be.

Also, that is news to me that IE9 has Adblock Plus plugin built in Have you even looked at what that is? You're probably confusing a popup blocker with it...

In IE9 it is called Tracking Protection List, the same list that is used by AdBlocker can be used in IE9: Fanboy Adblock Homepage

And lastly, I hope you read through that GRC page, because from what you wrote there, it's clear that you didn't understand it.

No, it is clear that you DO NOT understand. The problem GRC talks about is not a problem in the real world of security. Fooling IE into thinking a certificate is EV even when it is not, requires special modifications to the certificate's entry and only then it will only work for certificates that are set up by group policy. Again this whole thing does not effect consumers and the internet, only corporate environments.

 

[Faladu]

IE hate was ingrained when it was a featureless piece of garbage while Firefox was in beta before even 1.0 making it look PATHETIC.

That's the genesis of the hate for IE imho, and I for one am not looking back.

I did go back on Firefox to version 14.0.1 and sticking with it for now, mainly use it on one screen and Maxthon's latest version on the other.

Kind of like the hate on 8 due to: WTH is my start button/menu?

 

[rusty post]

I vote on the side of logicearth. Plus, he/she exhibits better manners♫

 

[Layback Bear]

This might be of some help.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh673561(v=vs.85).aspx

Internet Explorer 10 gets a new sandbox : Enhanced Protected Mode