Is PC gaming Being Done Away With?

[sygnus21]

also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.

I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital there’s no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but they’ve only profited from 10 million, that’s a clear indication they’ve lost money.

I don’t know how anybody can’t see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.

 

[Richardc269]

also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.

I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital there’s no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but they’ve only profited from 10 million, that’s a clear indication they’ve lost money.

I don’t know how anybody can’t see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.

Yeah, it is lost sales. They're trying to sell it. If the consumer pirates it and doesn't buy it, then it's a lost sale. But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.

 

[vv211]

also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.

I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital there’s no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but they’ve only profited from 10 million, that’s a clear indication they’ve lost money.

I don’t know how anybody can’t see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.

Any games that I may or may not have pirated, I wouldn't have purchased at any point, so there was no "potential sale" lost there.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.

This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.

 

[Richardc269]

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.

This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.

I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.

 

[AstaLaVista]

This used to be the norm... you would play a demo and buy or not buy from playing it.

Now, this is the newe norm... preorder/buy the shoddy/unoptimized console port, wait a few month for patches to see whether it will fix your issues or just move on to the next one and hope for the best. And the majority of you see this as legal? :shock:


And sorry, the answer is not... well, don't buy it then! That is just so wrong as well. How about, make this phuckers finish their games before they put it for sale? :sarc:

Giving that answer is so stupid as... how else do you know whether that shoddy/unoptimized console port can be even installed on your computer, let alone playable if there is no way to test it? Have you gone to the Ubisoft Forums for GRFS, GRAW, GRAW2, Vegas, Vegas 2 and read about the way Ubi treats their customer base? Hell, even the consoles are having issues now!

 

[sygnus21]

I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.

I'm not going to get into income disparity as it's a subject near and dear to me.

That said do I justify robbery because I'm broke? We're talking an unnecessary item here, not food or clothing.

Anyway if this was the only source of piracy, it’d be a lot easier to buy, but the fact is, there are many who have the wherewithal to purchase many games over but pirate because they can, or see nothing wrong with it.

And so as not to be a hypocrite, back in the late 90’s when I first got into computers just about everyone I knew, including me, pirated software. My first computer had all sorts of pirated games and software, including my OS.

Somewhere around the early 2000’s I decided to start purchasing my software for fear of viruses. From that point on I haven’t pirated anything. Also being a photographer with my own website I know I’ve had images stolen…. Thus lost income.

So yeah, I don’t condone piracy as I now have a better understanding how it leads to lost income, and is just plain wrong.

Anyway we can go back and forth on this all day so I’ll just bow out as both sides have their reasons for doing what they do.

 

[M1GU31]

I think we should end it,getting out of hand.

 

[dejavecue]

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.

This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.

I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.

I understand your point of view because back when I was in school and had only a small allowance, whenever I would think about buying a game I tossed that idea around for 2 months before actually making the purchase. I wanted to get something I was really sure about for my money.

However, piracy is piracy, even if you don't like EA or so. It is still their intellectual property and NOTHING gives you the right to pirate their stuff.

I worked for three years and bought many games I had pirated before, partly because I felt guilty, partly because I had a lot of disposable income.
I quit my job and now I am student and I am happy to have made those purchases, but I am back to only buying a game whenever I am really sure (which is basically to say: Only when it's made by Blizzard, because they are the only ones that deliver high quality games that are nearly bug-free and awesome). I don't pirate other games though.

Personally I find it terrible that most publishers don't offer demos anymore. For example I was incredibly excited about Max Payne 3, as both its predecessors were really good. I followed the developers on Twitter and watched every gameplay video I could get my hands on.
Then there was no demo for the game and I was unsure. I didn't want to shell out 60€ for a game I did not know whether I would enjoy it or not. I had no legal way of testing it out.
So, I downloaded an illegal copy, played for 5 minutes (what I thought would be as far as a usual demo might take me), was horribly disappointed by it and deleted it again.

I don't feel good about it, but I kind of had to do it this way. But let me assure you, had I found the game enjoyable I would have deleted it and bought it. Sadly, it sucked and I merely deleted it without buying.

Is this trend of not releasing a demo for the reason of hiding that the game is crappy?

 

[Solarstarshines]

What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.

I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.

I understand your point of view because back when I was in school and had only a small allowance, whenever I would think about buying a game I tossed that idea around for 2 months before actually making the purchase. I wanted to get something I was really sure about for my money.

However, piracy is piracy, even if you don't like EA or so. It is still their intellectual property and NOTHING gives you the right to pirate their stuff.

I worked for three years and bought many games I had pirated before, partly because I felt guilty, partly because I had a lot of disposable income.
I quit my job and now I am student and I am happy to have made those purchases, but I am back to only buying a game whenever I am really sure (which is basically to say: Only when it's made by Blizzard, because they are the only ones that deliver high quality games that are nearly bug-free and awesome). I don't pirate other games though.

Personally I find it terrible that most publishers don't offer demos anymore. For example I was incredibly excited about Max Payne 3, as both its predecessors were really good. I followed the developers on Twitter and watched every gameplay video I could get my hands on.
Then there was no demo for the game and I was unsure. I didn't want to shell out 60€ for a game I did not know whether I would enjoy it or not. I had no legal way of testing it out.
So, I downloaded an illegal copy, played for 5 minutes (what I thought would be as far as a usual demo might take me), was horribly disappointed by it and deleted it again.

I don't feel good about it, but I kind of had to do it this way. But let me assure you, had I found the game enjoyable I would have deleted it and bought it. Sadly, it sucked and I merely deleted it without buying.

Is this trend of not releasing a demo for the reason of hiding that the game is crappy?

Now days it is too hard to find out if the game is crappy or not so much hype put into these things it is Insane

Even the Gamer reviews suck best way you'll ever find out how good a game is to play it off someone who has it already that way you can use it legaly and see if it is worth your dollar

There is always a legal way also just another thought if most of us use say steam if you bought the game and it sucked just simply trade it to someone who wants it and get you something from them that wil make you happy

There is always a positive against a negative I Have La Noire up for Steam trade it is a perfectly fine game i never got it to work if someone has a steam game they want to trade for it im all ears just PM me

 

[AstaLaVista]

I just don't get it, you are all pretty much against piracy, or so you say but, nobody says anything about the shoddy business practices from Companies like Ubisoft and others and how they are getting our money... why is that I wonder?

What do I mean? OK, again, take Ghost Recon Future Soldier... the majority of people who have purchased the game are having problems even installing the game so, 3 months later and 60 dollars shy, they have paid for a product they can not use... why is this not consider Illegal or even a form of Piracy?

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Other than dropping a nuke on their HQ, the only way I know is going Indie and looking for less-graphically amazing stuff (think 5-6 years ago), there are tons of cool games out there (actual game content), some even free. Try looking at sourceforge.net.

 

[alikhan]

Here is an article from techpowerup -

Report: PC Gaming On The Rise

This may not be a surprise to the PC enthusiast community but, the PC gaming market has never been healthier, according to a report from the not-for-profit consortium PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA). The report claims that in 2011, the industry reached a global record $18.6 billion, a growth of 15 percent over the prior year. The report cites burgeoning foreign markets and social games as large factors in the findings. The results of the PCGA's third annual "Horizons" research report found that China is growing at almost twice the rate of the global market, bringing in $6 billion for a total growth of 27 percent. The US, UK, Korea, Japan, and Germany saw increased revenue of 11%, by comparison. Asian companies, in general, are noted for spurring on sales in their markets.

The report also cites Zynga and Nexon (of MapleStory fame) as frontrunners in the PC space. Zynga in particular doubled its revenue to roughly $1.1 billion, putting it on-par with Nexon. Zynga and the German company Bigpoint were noted for pushing the free-to-play model, already popular in Asian territories, into North America and Europe. The report also notes the movers and shakers of big-budget PC games from the western market, like Star Wars: The Old Republic and Rift, along with multiplatform titles like Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Looking forward, the report speculates that the industry will grow to $25.5 billion (37 percent increase) by 2015, thanks to increased broadband penetration and digital delivery. The report is from a PC gaming coalition with a vested interest in trumpeting the industry's health, but even so, the rumors of PC's death have greatly exaggerated.

PC gaming will never die!!!!!

on the other hand
the smart phone game industry is increasing lots lately tho..:sarc:

 

[dejavecue]

I just don't get it, you are all pretty much against piracy, or so you say but, nobody says anything about the shoddy business practices from Companies like Ubisoft and others and how they are getting our money... why is that I wonder?

What do I mean? OK, again, take Ghost Recon Future Soldier... the majority of people who have purchased the game are having problems even installing the game so, 3 months later and 60 dollars shy, they have paid for a product they can not use... why is this not consider Illegal or even a form of Piracy?

While all of this may be true, none of it gives you the right to pirate their intellectual property. Of course some companies (or more often their publisher) has a terrible way of treating their customers, and the only way to protest is to NOT buy.
If you go into a restaurant and don't like the food you also don't get the right to smash in their windows - you can complain.

 

[AstaLaVista]

I just don't get it, you are all pretty much against piracy, or so you say but, nobody says anything about the shoddy business practices from Companies like Ubisoft and others and how they are getting our money... why is that I wonder?

What do I mean? OK, again, take Ghost Recon Future Soldier... the majority of people who have purchased the game are having problems even installing the game so, 3 months later and 60 dollars shy, they have paid for a product they can not use... why is this not consider Illegal or even a form of Piracy?

While all of this may be true, none of it gives you the right to pirate their intellectual property. Of course some companies (or more often their publisher) has a terrible way of treating their customers, and the only way to protest is to NOT buy.
If you go into a restaurant and don't like the food you also don't get the right to smash in their windows - you can complain.

Do not misconstrue... I didn't say it was OK to pirate, I only stated that everyone seems to be OK with the opposite of it (which, to me is also Illegal and also a form of pirating). Must of you see this as normal behavior or how a money transaction must take place. :shock:

And NO, if I go to a restaurant and the food sucks (with a good reason), I am not going to smash their windows but, I have also options, I have the right to complain and request a refund (if I didn't finish all my food, lick the plate and finish all the bread of course!). If the Restaurant does not want to comply (again, if I tasted the food and did not like it because it was not cooked well, or cooked yesterday and microwaved today), I will have a discussion with my Credit Card Company and refuse the charges and let them deal with the Restaurant.

Now, lets see how we purchase a game now a days, it seems you pay for something (expecting that you will not only like it but that, it will be able to be installed in your computer!), go back home, almost crashing a few times because you're so anxious, can't play it, can't even install it and you are all OK... perhaps you whine or complain a little bit or just go back to the place you bought it and purchase something else w/o even bothering to ask yourself What the F just happened, WHY are you not caring (if this is your money of course! or even if it isn't)... how many times can you lie to yourself and say (Meh, its only 60 dollars, I spend more than that at the movies!). :shock:

All I am saying is... why can they call it Legal (when we all know that it is not) and able to get away with it? Aside from knowing, you all seem to be ok with their behavior?

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Must of you see this as normal behavior or how a money transaction must take place.

It's more like the knowledge that you cannot do anything about it. Really even if you don't buy, there are cadres of people that will (mainly teens).

how many times can you lie to yourself and say (Meh, its only 60 dollars, I spend more than that at the movies!)

Actually, till now I pay 20 euro max per game. Train yourself to not take their bait and not buy new, patience is useful. Wait a year or two. As long as it isn't a shooter, it should get some kind of support. Bugs hat made the game an unplayable mess get eventually fixed.

All I am saying is... why can they call it Legal (when we all know that it is not) and able to get away with it?

Because they have the money to win in court against any poor customer that tries to sue them.

 

[AstaLaVista]

All I am saying is... why can they call it Legal (when we all know that it is not) and able to get away with it?

Because they have the money to win in court against any poor customer that tries to sue them.

Therein lies the Million Dollar Question I think... and the reason why there is an exponential increase in Pirating now a days.

In one hand... people will pirate the game because they can't buy it and never had any intention of buying it (no lost sales here)

In the other hand... people will pirate because they feel entitle to it since they lost money on a previous purchase (insert your worst publisher here!) (lost sales? perhaps but its more like making it even).

And other hands... people will pirate to Demo the Game, if they like it and see a potential game with minimal bugs, they will go ahead and purchase it. If the game is riddle with bugs and bad coding, they will toss it away (no lost sales in my eyes).

I don't consider fair that these publisher want us to be their beta testers and pay for it while we are at it ... something has to give and until such time that they finish a product and sell it to me in a working state, I will continue to boycott them see it as fighting back or hitting them where it hurts.

You will always find Moms and Pops buying everything for their kids because they feel is how they are showing how much they love them, and that is a HUGE part of the problem and perhaps why we are seeing Console ports instead of the other way around... still, it does not makes it legal or right!

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Therein lies the Million Dollar Question I think... and the reason why there is an exponential increase in Pirating now a days.

Nah, piracy in First World has been mainly linked to infrastructure. As internet bandwith increased, piracy increased (and even before, you had quite a few shops offering illegal CD copies for a bargain price). Most of the whining about piracy and lost revenue is to cover that their products suck and as such they sell less. Keep not buying their stuff, and let Indie games take their place.

Its worldwide increase is because more people in poorer countries can now afford a PC while most companies don't (or can't) adapt their prices to poorer markets. But that's another thing alltogether.

 

[AstaLaVista]

Most of the whining about piracy and lost revenue is to cover that their products suck and as such they sell less. Keep not buying their stuff, and let Indie games take their place.

I can not agree with you more!!!! :grouphug:

Last game I bought was GRAW... others I have gotten with Video Card Purchases, a couple for about 5 to 7 bucks and most of them on trades.

I do play most of the latest Shooters because a friend buys them and I go to his house to help install it and demo it.

 

[McNash]

I hardly play any games other than shooters and strategy games, and they are great to play with keyboard and mouse.