Solved Is there a max number of times Retail can be activated?

[Ritjesman]

I have two Retail keys: [1] my normal machine and [2] VirtualBox VM. The VM is a new addition to my software portfolio and intended for testing (initially Win7 --> Win10 migration). As a testing environment it is probable it would be useful to repeatedly delete and re-create VMs with various scenarios.


From Brink's tutorial on de-activating I gather there is no need to do a deactivation -- reactivation "dance" when deleting and creating VMs. The only constraint being one activated instance per key at a time.


I've read (in other forums) that there "may be" a limit on the number times a particular key can be activated. Googling "maximum activation" and variations on the theme invariably led to discussions about MS Office.


If there is a maximum I might be able to work around it using Snapshots but I'd prefer the freedom of just deleting a failed experiment and "starting over". [Note: "starting over" would be restoring a Reflect image into the VM and then changing the key for activation which has now worked a grand total of 1 (one) times.]


My concern may actually be moot if the MS activation server saw a new VM as a restoration of/reinstall to the "same machine" but I don't know enough about what's "under the covers" on a VM to feel confident that would be the case. Is there any validity to this rumored max on a Retail key's activations?


Thanx in advance for your help.

 

[SIW2]

Is there any validity to this rumored max on a Retail key's activations?

Not that I know of.

I back it up ( the backup only works for the same machine )

 

[Ritjesman]

Not that I know of.

Well, if anybody knows you would ...
Marking as Solved

I back it up ( the backup only works for the same machine )

Using DISM++ is certainly much better than what I found here: How to Backup and Restore Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 Activation Status (Activate Offline On Reinstall) << My Digital Life

 

[torchwood]

Hi

MS in thier wisdom thought of this kind of scenario, bless'em

You can run a test OS enviroment for 120 days, (see note).
DO NOT INPUT a product key on setup
This sets up a grace period of 30 days, which you can then extend, when notified, using the command
slmgr /rearm

note
the standard rearm option is generally X3, but as your using a retail disc you might have the option of 5X
you can check using the Mgadiag tool from here use options 2 or 3
Download Microsoft Genuine Advantage Diagnostic Tool 1.9.27.0

towards the bottom you will see these lines

License Status: Grace Period
Remaining Windows rearm count:


As for the no: times you can use a retail licence, its unlimited, the only caviate i know of is that if its used about 5 times in a month they will block it, and this requires a call to them to re-allow it

Roy

 

[Ritjesman]

[FONT=&quot]Hi Roy - thanx for additional info. Based on your response perhaps you'd have some insight on following scenario as I've most likely screwed up. . My testing focus is prepping for W7-->W10 migration. A fresh win7 install was done and my core apps loaded when I performed the following steps.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]using VirtualBox I created a VHD based VM[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]mounted the (MS = attached) VHD using Disk Management[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]restored a Macrium Reflect backup image to the "virgin" unallocated disk[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]once booted into VM guest changed Key from my "prod" to my "test" key[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]activated 1st try w/Genuine message[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The above was done to test the end-to-end process.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Subsequently all remaining apps/XP mode were installed and I repeated the process above except I cloned C:\ to the virgin VHD (cuts Reflect processing time from 50 to 20 min for 70GB).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When I attempted to change the key as before, however, I got an error that "the license could not be used on this computer" or something very similar (if it's important I believe I can recreate to get exact error code unless that would permanently mess things up).

   Note

[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Since this is a restore (or “redeploy to new hardware” (until key is changed) to be more accurate) the grace period is only 4320 mins (although the mins remaining doesn’t seem to increment) or 3 days [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The activation error surprised me since my understanding of Brink's tutorial on de-activation is that when the key is deactivated on a local machine nothing actually gets updated on the MS activation server. I’ve done many restores of my C: drive w/nary an activation hiccup. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][Done a bit more research] It looks vBox assigns something called “a unique UUID” for every VM created so I’m guessing MS activation may be using the UUID to do its “same hardware?” check. But since there was only one VM running when I tried to activate shouldn’t that have satisfied the “one key – one machine” criteria?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanx for your thoughts,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Art
[/FONT]

 

[torchwood]

Hi Art,

1st comment as your online....

The upgrade is still free

Use the MCT tool and just perform a straight Update to W10,
Upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7 for Free | Tutorials


see note 5, beware the Windows.old file is now ONLY kept for 10 days
(lucky you've got images)

FURTHER INFO TO FOLLOW

 

[torchwood]

Hi Art --- Part 2


Would have liked to have seen the full reports from Mgadiag for >>>both<<< keys, as i could give you a more accurate reply.

from what i can see,
the 3 days left scenario, relates to the hardware error part, not kms, as the mga is looking at the InstallationID detail field in tandem with all other details. This changes EVERY time you create a VHD, as you correctly said - the unique UUID, for every clone/vhd. did you do 1 about 4 weeks ago? and the restored image was from it

Gets complicated, hehe, doesn't it
The True OS and the Virtual OS both require a (different) product key to be classified as genuine.

Now for more interesting bit - as your upgrading
The W7 product keys are NOT invalidated if you use it to upgrade to W10
W10 licensing works differently,
VERY SIMPLISTIC EXPLANATION
it only uses the a product key ONCE - it verifies it then creates a unique, for your computer, digital ID based on its component parts, which can/is linked to your MS User ID.
(comes in very handy if you upgrade to 10, go back to 7/8 and then back to 10, it remembers it)
im not a w10 guy but assume a VHD would also require a seperate key

Further if you want to run both 7 & 10, as you have 2 keys, Dual Boot or True/VHD that option is availbe to you.

The above assumes BOTH keys are genuine.


Roy

 

[Bree]

im not a w10 guy but assume a VHD would also require a seperate key...

Any VM will require its own key to activate it. If you run a W10 VM on a W10 host machine you'll need two licences.

Once Windows 10 is activated there is a digital licence stored on the MS activation servers and linked to the unique hardware ID of the machine. This is the same for a VM as it is for any machine. The important point is that the hardware ID is made up of various components, the cpu and motherboard serial numbers (real or virtual) for example - but the hard drive plays no part in this ID.

You can swap out a drive, replace it with a new one them clean install the same edition of W10 and it will activate from the existing digital licence. This too applies to a VM as well as a physical machine.

So if you want to make a fresh start on any W10 machine (physical or virtual) remove the existing drive (or .vhd) and replace it with a new one. The HWID of the machine won't change so a clean install of the same edition of W10 (Home or Pro) will still activate from the existing digital licence.

Whatever you do, do not delete the VM and create a new one from scratch. That will have a new HWID and will need a new key to activate it.


I use Hyper-V for my VMs. To preserve the HWID of an activated VM for re-use later I replace its .vhdx with an empty new one then export the VM. When I want to use its digital licence again I import it, choosing the import option to 'Restore the virtual machine (use the existing unique ID)'.



For virtualbox, the first post in this thread tells you how to preserve the HWID.
virtualbox.org • View topic - An activated Windows-10-guest changes through running the Hardware UUID and looses the activation

 

[Ritjesman]

Whatever you do, do not delete the VM and create a new one from scratch. That will have a new HWID and will need a new key to activate it.

Ouch! I've probably shot myself in the foot then because that's exactly what I've just finished doing.



[Update] Took phone activation but now it's activated/Genuine. MS support confirmed that each VM instance is viewed as "unique hardware" by the activation server and phone activation will be required if I choose to activate the key on a new VM. I'm still fuzzy about why deactivating via slmgr doesn't make the key available to be used on a different machine tho.



Is ".vhdx" Hyper-V nomenclature?


RE: the content of the link to vBox forum (thanx) presumes a fresh OS install (I think that's what the author means by "raw" but not activated); I guess by cloning a working OS drive then changing the key it's an added twist.

Would have liked to have seen the full reports from Mgadiag for >>>both<<< keys, as i could give you a more accurate reply.

Attached are the requested info txt files. XG7H9 is "prod" the other is for the key used on test/VM. Looking forward to the results of your analysis ...
View attachment MGADiag CM8JM-2TGJJ-FVXKB.txt

View attachment MGADiag JJ7C3-QFFXQ-XG7H9.txt

 

[torchwood]

Hi


Both those keys are showing as retail, and good
There are 2 issues
they are both currently Activated but not Registered, pretty standard fix
install kb971033, then reboot twice for it to update the MS validaion servers.
OF more concern
They both contain a 705 entry,

Windows Product ID: 00371-705-7245917-06288
Windows Product ID: 00371-705-7310703-06322

now these were primarilly issued to developers, known as MSDN keys.
and SHOULD NOT have been sold on, they also have a limited number of activations once that limit is reached, and no further activations can be made-- the key will be blocked


@Bree
as there Retail keys does this affect the number of times you can use it to create a W10 VM

Roy

MSDN (Microsoft Developer Network) is a subscription based service where developers receive operating systems, applications, tools, books etc from Microsoft. The subscription may be moved from one person to another but re-sale of the Key is against the Microsoft End User License Agreement (EULA) as the subscription is on a per-user basis which means only the user who has the subscription may use the software.

 

[Ritjesman]

I back it up ( the backup only works for the same machine )

SIW2 As mentioned above I've got two instances of W7: a "prod" which is my live machine and a "test" which is a VM. Both have their own Windows key. The test VM's guest "disk" was populated via a clone of prod. After booting the VM guest the key was changed from prod to test. The test VM guest environment is currently activated.


I made the mistake of doing a Windows update that seems to have negatively impacted VM performance & would like to get rid of the update by loading a fresh prod clone. (No, I don't have a Windows restore as I've relied on Reflect so the prod clone did not have Recovery turned on). My intent is to retain the VM "hardware identifiers"-OS license key relationship whilst eliminating the ill-begotten update.



I've followed your tutorial on backing up activation state using DISM++. The instructions assume restoring the the activation state following a fresh install. In my case I'll be cloning from my "prod" environment which has its own key and will need to change the key in addition to returning the activated status.



Will the DISM++ restore activation status work for my scenario?


Thanx for your help.

 

[SIW2]

try it and find out.

 

[Bree]

Is ".vhdx" Hyper-V nomenclature?

Hyper-V can use .vhd or .vhdx virtual drives, but the default is .vhdx.

VHDX (Virtual Hard Disk v2) is the successor format to VHD. Where VHD has a capacity limit of 2040 GB, VHDX has a capacity limit of 64 TB. For disk images with this newer format the filename extension vhdx is used instead of vhd. VHDX protects against power failures and is used by Hyper-V.[23] VHDX can be mounted like VHD.

VHD (file format) - Wikipedia

 

[Bree]

@Bree
as there Retail keys does this affect the number of times you can use it to create a W10 VM

Activation doesn't know or care whether you are using the retail key to activate a VM or a physical machine. It just counts the number of times you've used the key and allows (or blocks) it accordingly. I'm not sure what the rules are for a retail key, but the type of machine you use it on is not relevant.

Once W10 has been activated on a machine of any sort (physical or VM) it has a digital licence tied to its HWID and stored on the MS activation servers. As long as there are no significant hardware changes a clean install of the same edition without using a key will activate from the digital licence.

'Significant changes' would be a motherboard swap on a physical machine, or creating a new VM. Changing the drive (virtual or physical) for a new one is not a significant change.

 

[Ritjesman]

try it and find out.

Yep, it works. On first boot the System screen showed nine days to activate; it activated almost immediately. Thanx again for the DISM process.

There are 2 issues [1] they are both currently Activated but not Registered, pretty standard fix, install kb971033, then reboot twice for it to update the MS validaion servers.

KB971033 had actually already been applied. Out of curiosity I deleted the update, reran MGADiag and compared the results (only showing differences):

Theoretically, the Admin Service should have gone to Registered status with update 971033 so why did it not I wonder. As an FYI, the link for downloading 971033 in the MS KB article was throwing a 404 when I tried to download and reapply the patch. Thankfully I do daily backups.

[2] OF more concern, They both contain a 705 entry,
Windows Product ID: 00371-705-7245917-06288
Windows Product ID: 00371-705-7310703-06322

... these were primarilly issued to developers, known as MSDN keys and SHOULD NOT have been sold on...

This is very useful. I was tangentially aware of an entity called MSDN but since I've not been a programmer since mainframe COBOL/Assembler days I never paid it much mind. I suppose this is a legal grey area (presuming of course that my retail licenses did indeed originate with a MSDN subscriber) -- who is liable, the developer who sold them, the middle-man retailer who may have acquired them in good faith or the final customer who inadvertently purchased questionable goods? Yes, I did wonder about the low price but figured that there must be a market for fully depreciated (from an accounting perspective) software similar to that for fully depreciated hardware. A market for depreciated software licenses my exist but ...



I'm not comfortable in the grey area and am searching for replacements. (Once bitten, twice shy) does this look legit to you (I downloaded the MS volume licensing EULA & it doesn't look like Tralion (a German firm) is doing anything shady)?

 

[SIW2]

I haven't dealt with that particular company, however, the download version from their page here is cheaper, though some people like to have a box and dvd.
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - Download 1 PC — tralion

 

[Ritjesman]

I haven't dealt with that particular company, however, the download version from their page here is cheaper, though some people like to have a box and dvd.
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - Download 1 PC — tralion

Thanx (again).

 

[torchwood]

Hi

before i get into the reply proper.

Thank you for the info re kb971033 ----
I allready knew about the removal of the Mgadiag tool, now with KB being removed as well "smacks of" MS retiring the unofficial extended free upgrade period.
one of the caviates for an upgrade, NOT a clean install, was having a fully updated and genuine OS.
@SIW2 is it in DISM++
@wkeller and is it in Integrate7 script
@Brink for info re W10 free upgrade tutorial.

Ok back to your "problem"
The second way to resolve it, Call MS, from a run command type slui 4

 

[torchwood]

oooooooooooops

got carried away

As for responsibility, ends up in your bed.
There is a generally a returns period for any goods sold, whether in a shop or on-line, but i suspect your long past the standard 28 days.
MS do have systems in place to try and stop this kind of practice
How To Tell - Home
and more importantly in your case have been known to give out a free key

As for that company and those product details
I would be very wary -- thier quoting a Volume licence in the details, once again it goes against the EULA
not for resale.
(some countries however have legislated that the MS EULA is not binding, Germany is one)
Volume licences are either
KMS validates against a NON MS server every x days
MAK validates against MS server
Both also have a limited no of User Activations

If Dism++ or Integrate7 do not include kb971033, im pretty certain the Heidoc July2018 Iso does

Roy

 

[Bree]

...FYI, the link for downloading 971033 in the MS KB article was throwing a 404 when I tried to download and reapply the patch....

Thank you for the info re kb971033 ----
I allready knew about the removal of the Mgadiag tool, now with KB being removed as well "smacks of" MS retiring the unofficial extended free upgrade period....

A neat trick to download anything that MS have removed from their servers is to look up an archived copy of the relevant page in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine and download an archived copy from the link there.

Wayback Machine | Description of the update for Windows Activation Technologies