Microsoft exec admits new reality: Market share no longer 90%, it's 14

[ThrashZone]

Not to revisit the issue but the price of the slates is far too much and that just my opinion,

The other bottom line is they are still too big to be anymore potable than a real laptop,
So it's still a shot in the dark as to what this device is really good for anything not cloud related,
Kicking everything to the cloud is not a good business strategy unless you business model is to sell subscriptions and storage to these services which is a double edged sword but I suppose to be optimistic you would have a 50-50 % succeed/ failure chance if your lucky

800.00 for a slate it will not take long to see if sales boost or flop

 

[lffoar]

Jimbo, your long post compares apples to kumquats, especially your African stall holder analogy. No one here is saying no to all new technology; what we take issue with is new technology that doesn't improve our lives or workflows or isn't cost effective. For the cost of one bare bones Surface 3, I can buy two notebooks that are more powerful, have more storage capacity, a larger screen, a real keyboard, more USB ports, far superior multitasking capability, etc. While heavier and more awkward to hold than a Surface, I, and many others, don't need to carry a computer around with us all the time. Those of us who do most likely will find a smart phone to be far more practical than a tablet. Smart phones can be easily held and used with one hand. Try that with a tablet. Smart phones will fit in a pocket or a purse (or even a bra). Try any of that with a tablet.

I'm not saying tablets don't have their uses in business; they do. But not to the extent you seem to believe. And they certainly will not replace desktops and laptops any time soon for anything other than simple tasks, such as checking email and social media sites and simple internet surfing (and smart phones can do that with far more portability).

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...The other bottom line is they are still too big to be anymore potable than a real laptop...

It's like the Kindle e-book readers when they first came out; they were just too big with the overly wide bezel and that silly keyboard at the bottom that would get used occasionally. They were way too big to fit in my purse so I got a JetBook Lite instead. Amazon has since pared them down in size and price. I recently got one of the less expensive ones that cut the purchase price by using adds for the "screen saver" on sale for $20 off (a bit over 28%). It doesn't have a front light but the cover I later bought for it, once I determined it was worth keeping, does.

Something the size of a Surface is fine for someone who carries a briefcase all the time but, then again, one of the ideas of a tablet is to help eliminate the briefcase.

 

[ThrashZone]

With a device that large I don't see how a brief case wouldn't be used,
Now days kids don't carry a book more less a device this size unless it's in a backpack,
But as some have said we are not the targeted demographic

Although I use my laptop and a portable printer in the field quite a bit for on the spot invoice submitting I rarely ever hand write anything anymore,
And the biggest tick is I can do all of this without a internet connection,
Office is installed and not online in the cloud as Microsoft would have us use it

So I'm sure some people will find all of this slate and cloud stuff useful but it's just not the way I've ever operated,
I have a bunch of movies and music installed along with actual programs I can use when bored at an airport... without ever accessing the internet

So the only demographic I see Microsoft hitting on are the Mac crowd which wouldn't use a Microsoft product if it were free and at 800+ it's not free at all
Cheers.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi, there

Why are we mentioning "Slates" here -- I'm talking about the Convertibles and the SP3 is just as competent as any current laptop - especially when it's in a docking station -- OK expensive but please people tell me what part of the spec is INFERIOR to a laptop. (Docking station gives 3 FULL USB3 ports too if you want a LOT of external devices).

Watching movies is easy too at airports -- even easier in "tablet mode" -- you can either read the movie off an micro sdHC card, internal SSD or external device -- on a 64GB micro SD card you can store about 40 Blu Ray quality (full 1080p) movies ripped at around 2GB each and the resolution is far better than using a typical standard laptop - plus battery life is longer too -- important now when boarding the plane - security might check if your device powers up - your laptop battery might be flat after 3 hrs use in an airport with no available power sockets !!. You don't have to have an internet connection if you don't want to use one.

Running apps (EXCEL etc) is fine too -- there IS a keyboard and you can use a wireless mouse - just like a laptop.

Operating it as a TABLET is only ONE way of using the device but given the usually poor screen resolution of a laptop (768 X 1366) I prefer any day the infinitely better screen resolution on the SP3 -- even on a small screen such as the Samsung S5 phone you can easily see the difference between 1080p (Samsung s5) and the 720p (Samsung S4) so on the SP3's screen it's really easy.

Plugged into a docking station with keyboard, mouse and nice large external monitor it out classes any laptop I've used in the last few years -- I haven't tried Apple but if we restrict ourselves to PC's then my statement is what I've experienced.

AS I keep re-iterating this is NOT a pure tablet - and other people will come out with similar (and probably) cheaper products --early adopters always pay more !!!. I remember my first CD player would have cost around 1200 USD in todays money!! and now it's throw away technology !!. Did I regret buying it -- not a bit and the millions who bought much cheaper CD players and CD's during their heyday should be eternally grateful to the "early adopters".

Any real old timers here might remember what the initial PC cost together with the unbelievably large 20 MB hard disk !!! - yes MB not GB or TB. Due to that takeup you've had decent cheap performing PC's for years. !!!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[ThrashZone]

Surface/ Slate same animal and you've been saying what the surface is for and whom many times,
I just called it a slate by accident
Cheers.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...please people tell me what part of the spec is INFERIOR to a laptop. (Docking station gives 3 FULL USB3 ports too if you want a LOT of external devices...

The SP3 by itself has only one USB 3.0 port. My new $600 notebook has two USB 3.0 and two USB 2.0 ports without having to use a docking station. Btw, that docking station has only the bandwidth of the single port so if you wanted to run, say, three external HDDs, they had better be in powered docks or the docking station had better be externally powered. Also, your speed would be throttled.

The SP3 doesn't have a separate number pad on the keyboard. My notebook does. Believe me, it frequently comes in handy.

The low end SP3, which cost pretty much twice as much as my notebook, has only 64GB storage whereas my notebook comes with 500GB. The SP3 does have models with up to 512GB of storage but they cost more. Granted, SP3's storage is a SSD and my notebooks stock storage is a HDD but I can replace the HDD with SSDs up to 1 TB (I have a 500GB SSD for my notebook).

The SP3 has a 12" display. My notebook has a 15" display. At my age, even with trifocals, my old eyes greatly appreciate the difference!

The low end SP3 comes with 4GB RAM. My notebook comes with 6GB RAM. 8 GB RAM is available on the SP3 for a higher price.

The SP3 doesn't have an ODD like my notebook does. And yes, I still use them...frequently.

Granted, the SP3 has 9 hours battery life opposed to my notebook's 4 hours but I seriously doubt I would ever use my notebook on battery for more than hour or two. If I have to amuse myself for any longer than that, I have my e-Book reader which has even longer battery life (I don't remember how much but it's measured in weeks instead of hours); I would much rather read a book on a portable device than watch a movie on one to kill time.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there.

Travelling with a 15 inch screen is actually quite a nuisance -- the 12 inch display is fine for on the road. Try working or even watching a movie with a 15 inch laptop with the lid open and a decent distance from your face on a UK long distance train (especially Virgin Trains who operate service from Glasgow, Carlisle, Manchester / Liverpool and London). Even Business class has fairly narrow seats -- and they seem to get SMALLER with each refurbishment of the Rolling Stock

A numeric keypad isn't standard on a lot of laptops either - it's really an individual taste whether you want / use / need that feature.

The Docking station is powered - however I doubt if most people connect 3 external HDD's to their laptops at the same time - especially if they have the 2TB small passport type of drives - so USB3 throughput is likely to be less than maximum anyway.

It IS expensive and of course for a lot of people not a suitable device. - For others it DOES work and all I was saying that it can quite easily suffice instead of a laptop.

Anyway nobody HAS to use it -- I just think though in future we will see a lot more of these "Convertible" or multi- function devices -- just look at a smart phone -- actually using a Smart phone for making / receiving calls is probably only a TINY fraction of the way these devices are used. !!! For me the nr 1 issue is PORTABILITY and if you travel as much as I do you'll appreciate that -- and being stuck in Airports for hours at a time is not that unusual an occurrence - you can't spend the WHOLE day drinking Beer in Airport taverns unfortunately !!!.

Each to their own -- I think the Brit saying is "Horses for Courses".

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Hi there.

Travelling with a 15 inch screen is actually quite a nuisance -- the 12 inch display is fine for on the road. Try working or even watching a movie with a 15 inch laptop with the lid open and a decent distance from your face on a UK long distance train (especially Virgin Trains who operate service from Glasgow, Carlisle, Manchester / Liverpool and London). Even Business class has fairly narrow seats -- and they seem to get SMALLER with each refurbishment of the Rolling Stock

A numeric keypad isn't standard on a lot of laptops either - it's really an individual taste whether you want / use / need that feature.

The Docking station is powered - however I doubt if most people connect 3 external HDD's to their laptops at the same time - especially if they have the 2TB small passport type of drives - so USB3 throughput is likely to be less than maximum anyway.

It IS expensive and of course for a lot of people not a suitable device. - For others it DOES work and all I was saying that it can quite easily suffice instead of a laptop.

Anyway nobody HAS to use it -- I just think though in future we will see a lot more of these "Convertible" or multi- function devices -- just look at a smart phone -- actually using a Smart phone for making / receiving calls is probably only a TINY fraction of the way these devices are used. !!! For me the nr 1 issue is PORTABILITY and if you travel as much as I do you'll appreciate that -- and being stuck in Airports for hours at a time is not that unusual an occurrence - you can't spend the WHOLE day drinking Beer in Airport taverns unfortunately !!!.

Each to their own -- I think the Brit saying is "Horses for Courses".

Cheers
jimbo

The only laptops I've seen without numeric keypads are the netbooks.

Not everyone travels by plane or train. I pretty much drive everywhere I go. It may take longer on really long trips (if I cross more than a couple of States and the plane goes directly to where I am going) but it's cheaper and more comfortable, I have my own vehicle when I get there, I can carry more with me, my luggage doesn't get mishandled or lost (not to mention I can pretty much put what I want in my luggage), and I can travel on my own schedule. On short trips (under 500 miles), driving is actually faster than flying since I don't have to get to an airport early, then cool my heels for hours waiting for my flight, then, when I arrive, I don't have to wait for my luggage to show up, wrestle it to car rental, get a car, then drive the rest of the way to my destination (planes don't always go to where I go). This is not to mention the hassle of the constantly changing airline rates and regulations, overbooking, flight delays and cancellations, and the increasingly draconian TSA regulations and inspections. I refuse to fly until the airlines quit playing games and the Gestapo (TSA) backs off. If I have to cross an ocean, I'll go by boat and enjoy the cruise. Train travel in the USA is pretty much a joke.

 

[Boozad]

Hi, there

Why are we mentioning "Slates" here -- I'm talking about the Convertibles and the SP3 is just as competent as any current laptop - especially when it's in a docking station -- OK expensive but please people tell me what part of the spec is INFERIOR to a laptop. (Docking station gives 3 FULL USB3 ports too if you want a LOT of external devices).

Watching movies is easy too at airports -- even easier in "tablet mode" -- you can either read the movie off an micro sdHC card, internal SSD or external device -- on a 64GB micro SD card you can store about 40 Blu Ray quality (full 1080p) movies ripped at around 2GB each and the resolution is far better than using a typical standard laptop - plus battery life is longer too -- important now when boarding the plane - security might check if your device powers up - your laptop battery might be flat after 3 hrs use in an airport with no available power sockets !!. You don't have to have an internet connection if you don't want to use one.

Running apps (EXCEL etc) is fine too -- there IS a keyboard and you can use a wireless mouse - just like a laptop.

Operating it as a TABLET is only ONE way of using the device but given the usually poor screen resolution of a laptop (768 X 1366) I prefer any day the infinitely better screen resolution on the SP3 -- even on a small screen such as the Samsung S5 phone you can easily see the difference between 1080p (Samsung s5) and the 720p (Samsung S4) so on the SP3's screen it's really easy.

Plugged into a docking station with keyboard, mouse and nice large external monitor it out classes any laptop I've used in the last few years -- I haven't tried Apple but if we restrict ourselves to PC's then my statement is what I've experienced.

AS I keep re-iterating this is NOT a pure tablet - and other people will come out with similar (and probably) cheaper products --early adopters always pay more !!!. I remember my first CD player would have cost around 1200 USD in todays money!! and now it's throw away technology !!. Did I regret buying it -- not a bit and the millions who bought much cheaper CD players and CD's during their heyday should be eternally grateful to the "early adopters".

Any real old timers here might remember what the initial PC cost together with the unbelievably large 20 MB hard disk !!! - yes MB not GB or TB. Due to that takeup you've had decent cheap performing PC's for years. !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Can you highlight the parts that would have saved the English economy?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Hi, there

Why are we mentioning "Slates" here -- I'm talking about the Convertibles and the SP3 is just as competent as any current laptop - especially when it's in a docking station -- OK expensive but please people tell me what part of the spec is INFERIOR to a laptop. (Docking station gives 3 FULL USB3 ports too if you want a LOT of external devices).

Watching movies is easy too at airports -- even easier in "tablet mode" -- you can either read the movie off an micro sdHC card, internal SSD or external device -- on a 64GB micro SD card you can store about 40 Blu Ray quality (full 1080p) movies ripped at around 2GB each and the resolution is far better than using a typical standard laptop - plus battery life is longer too -- important now when boarding the plane - security might check if your device powers up - your laptop battery might be flat after 3 hrs use in an airport with no available power sockets !!. You don't have to have an internet connection if you don't want to use one.

Running apps (EXCEL etc) is fine too -- there IS a keyboard and you can use a wireless mouse - just like a laptop.

Operating it as a TABLET is only ONE way of using the device but given the usually poor screen resolution of a laptop (768 X 1366) I prefer any day the infinitely better screen resolution on the SP3 -- even on a small screen such as the Samsung S5 phone you can easily see the difference between 1080p (Samsung s5) and the 720p (Samsung S4) so on the SP3's screen it's really easy.

Plugged into a docking station with keyboard, mouse and nice large external monitor it out classes any laptop I've used in the last few years -- I haven't tried Apple but if we restrict ourselves to PC's then my statement is what I've experienced.

AS I keep re-iterating this is NOT a pure tablet - and other people will come out with similar (and probably) cheaper products --early adopters always pay more !!!. I remember my first CD player would have cost around 1200 USD in todays money!! and now it's throw away technology !!. Did I regret buying it -- not a bit and the millions who bought much cheaper CD players and CD's during their heyday should be eternally grateful to the "early adopters".

Any real old timers here might remember what the initial PC cost together with the unbelievably large 20 MB hard disk !!! - yes MB not GB or TB. Due to that takeup you've had decent cheap performing PC's for years. !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Can you highlight the parts that would have saved the English economy?

:roflmao: Good one!

 

[ThrashZone]

:roflmao:

I just want to know if any new buyers ever feel cheated when these devices price drop to reality,
Which at the storage is about 400.00 ?
And no I don't care what hardware is installed either it still isn't worth 7-800.00
Glad you like it Jimbo

 

[lffoar]

Why all this kerfuffle?? Tablets are for taking, notebooks are little books and I dunno wtf a "surface" is :huh:
Lookee here, this is my home phone...which makes...wait for it....phone calls!!
My mobile phone.....gotta keep up with the latest y' know.
And my loved computer.........just wondering, can anybody help me transition from windows 3.11 to windows 95?

 

[Ranger4]

Iffoar. Lovely picture of the old Ericsson wall phone you posted, although it looks like a later model. They were also available with an additional earphone so you could listen but not talk.
2 big 1.5 volt dry batteries wired in series in the base & a crank handle magneto on the RH side, for raising the exchange or phoning other party line subscribers.
Brings back past memories.

 

[jimbo45]

:roflmao:

I just want to know if any new buyers ever feel cheated when these devices price drop to reality,
Which at the storage is about 400.00 ?
And no I don't care what hardware is installed either it still isn't worth 7-800.00
Glad you like it Jimbo

If you are "new adopters" then you DO pay a premium and are prepared to do so. - as I posted back with the example of a CD player -- now CD's are really DINOSAUR technology. Expect prices etc to drop considerably. It's only once a product reaches mainstream that you feel cheated if you buy something and almost immediately something else comes out much cheaper and better -- then that's your OWN fault -- you should have done your shopping more wisely.

It's only money after all -- people might say a new Ferrari isn't worth 350,000 EUR either - but people buy them.

I'd rather spend my money on Tax reclaimable technology than give it to the Govt to spend on making War or giving money to despotic 3rd world dictators under the guise of "Foreign Aid".


@Iffor

Great pics !!!. Note to W8 users -- there's no menu on Windows 3.11 either - weren't any complains back then !!!.

Talking of Old technology -- one which is making a small comeback strangely is VINYL -- I'm glad I kept some apparatus for cutting Vinyls -- thankfully kept an XP VM - the hardware will only work on W2000 / XP !!. Mind you perfectionists can quite reliably say that a pure analog sound (that our ears hear) can never be totally represented by a digital stream -- A/D conversion is done by a series (usually) of Fourier transforms (converts little bits of the analog sound sine waves) to small chunks of a digital signal. The smaller the "chunks" the better the conversion but it can never be 100% -- pretty close though !!.

With digital photography as opposed to film (analog) it's a bit easier as the eye can't sense so many gradations when colour is used - however even today it's very very difficult to produce a superb BLACK and WHITE digital print -- reason - infinite number of "gradations in the "Grey scale" for analog which is is usually converted to 15 bits for cheaper digital cameras -- even 2 **15 or 2**31 (expensive gear) is minute compared to infinity.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Ranger4]

@Iffoar. What are you requiring for the transition from Windows 3.1 to 95?.

 

[King Arthur]

And my loved computer.........just wondering, can anybody help me transition from windows 3.11 to windows 95?

It's worth noting that whereas Windows 8 shoehorned Metro into people's faces, Windows 95 (and up to Windows XP SP1) allowed the user to use Program Manager as the shell instead of Explorer if they wished.

 

[Jody Thornton]

Talking of Old technology -- one which is making a small comeback strangely is VINYL -- I'm glad I kept some apparatus for cutting Vinyls

Arrrgggghhhhhh (LOL) Vinyls? I hate that. We never ever said "Vinyls" back in the day. LPs, records, analog discs or even just "vinyl"? Sure thing. But "vinyls" is how millennials say it...lol. Sorry it just irks me

(meant with a bit of humour. I'm not cranky at all...lol)

Cheers,
Jody

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Talking of Old technology -- one which is making a small comeback strangely is VINYL -- I'm glad I kept some apparatus for cutting Vinyls

Arrrgggghhhhhh (LOL) Vinyls? I hate that. We never ever said "Vinyls" back in the day. LPs, records, analog discs or even just "vinyl"? Sure thing. But "vinyls" is how millennials say it...lol. Sorry it just irks me

(meant with a bit of humour. I'm not cranky at all...lol)

Cheers,
Jody

Curious. I'm far from being a millennial and remember people referring to vinyls as vinyls to distinguish them from reel to reel, 8 tracks, and, later, when they first came out, CDs. I'm also amazed that people tout vinyls as being superior to digital because they have a "warmer" sound. That "warmer sound" is just distortion due to distortion and vinyl being unable to capture all details. One can achieve the same sound with high quality digital by filtering out some of the details and attenuating some of the highs. Big deal! I prefer the cleaner, more accurate sound one can get from digital and the freedom of needing huge amounts of space to store and play vinyl and the hassle of taking care of them to avoid pops and crackles and delay the inevitable wear.

 

[Jody Thornton]

Curious. I'm far from being a millennial and remember people referring to vinyls as vinyls to distinguish them from reel to reel, 8 tracks, and, later, when they first came out, CDs. I'm also amazed that people tout vinyls as being superior to digital because they have a "warmer" sound. That "warmer sound" is just distortion due to distortion and vinyl being unable to capture all details. One can achieve the same sound with high quality digital by filtering out some of the details and attenuating some of the highs. Big deal! I prefer the cleaner, more accurate sound one can get from digital and the freedom of needing huge amounts of space to store and play vinyl and the hassle of taking care of them to avoid pops and crackles and delay the inevitable wear.

Good to meet your acquaintance Ms Fitzgerald . You may have heard "vinyl" but I'm sure never as plural. If you did hear it as plural, trust me; it was an exceptional case. "Vinyls" is completely a 2007+ trend since the LPs "comeback". Of course I love how you used it every time last post...lol. My Dad who is 73 now says it that way, but never did so up to the end of the 80s. (By the way, there have been countless posts on audiokarma.org on this very subject, so I know I'm not remembering things incorrectly.)

I do agree on how we've seemed to bolster the LPs quality to beyond digital limits. The truth is at the very best of each format's attainable benchmarks, turntables and CD players sound more similar than different. During blind tests, many analog fans cite that well pressed records on a high-end table sound too digital for their tastes (that's funny), but it just means that with a good DAC, the digital version has the same solidity as a great LP or open-reel tape. And it means that a well reproduced LP can have the same crispness as a CD.

But yes, I'd agree in your stating that warmth may very well be distortion. I mean, since when did sound have a character? It's either accurately reproduced, or it's not.

Good speaking with you.


Cheers,
Jody