Microsoft forecasting clouds - for everyone.

[msgerbs]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

 

[andrew129260]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

 

[msgerbs]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

"I don't trust cars so I'm not going anywhere outside of my house"

"I don't trust cloud backups so I'm not going to backup my data outside of my house"

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

Sounds the same to me.

 

[Boozad]

Doesn't make any sense to me either.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Cloud Backups for a lot of people are simply NOT feasible. Also please realize the difference between BACKUP (needs to be taken regularly -- may be even DAILY) and ARCHIVE - essentially static data that rarely changes and really only needs to be copied ONCE in its entirety.

Typical cases --

1) Capped Internet Bandwidth -- if you need to backup large music / video libraries then No good -- these can often run to several TB or more.

2) Upload speed -- even with fast broadband most people have UPLOAD speeds sometimes as much as 10X SLOWER than the downloads. Fairly typical in NON cabled areas is around 0.5Mb/s or even slower UPLOAD.
Would just take TOO long for reliable backup.

3) amount of storage space offered - usually far too small to be even remotely useful for serious backup - even a standard Windows OS partition can be around 60 - 70 GB.

4) if you need an OS restore you could be offline so how do you retrieve your data.

5) cost will increase once people get "locked in" to the system.

6) you have NO CONTROL over where this data is stored, what other types of users also have accounts on the same server and even who has access to it -- just look at the recent ebay fiasco. What happens also if somebody uploads pirated torrent content to the same cloud server (not to your account I might add) and then the FBI or MAFAA (MAFIA !!) order the whole site to be taken down maybe forever while a whole slew of court cases take place.

I think except for specific File Sharing - especially when email attachment sizes are limited as in a workplace then it CAN have some use for individuals -- but then I'd use something like DROPBOX - but as a regular backup / archive tool -- forget it.

(Businesses are a different scenario -- they might have their OWN dedicated "cloud servers" from which they can create standardized Virtual Desktop Infrastructures etc - makes maintenance and software installations simpler and possibly cheaper too).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Cloud is NOT viable for HOME users as a BACKUP system -- most people I know have Music / Video libraries of SEVERAL TB - now most cloud providers will possibly give a user say 50 GB -- by NO way good enough -- and in a lot of countries you STILL pay for broadbad bandwidth - you need an UNLIMITED usage for decent size backups and you need very fast broadband as well -- most people also forget that even with FAST download - upload can be up to 10X SLOWER !!!

Might not matter in uploading a few files to a file sharing site but uploading several HUNDRED GB will take a while !!!

I think businesses don't have to worry about this as they don't use "ISP's" in the classic sense - the larger companies also have dedicated line / cable systems.

The only time it might make sense as an individual is say you were a journalist and you needed to get pictures and your story out of for example N.Korea etc where normal email etc can't be relied on.

Cheers
jimbo

Where did those TBs of music and videos come from? Surely not original content by them personally. It's most likely either pirated, or purchased off some service like iTunes, Amazon, etc. so why would they need to back that up? Back it up locally if you want, but there's no need to back that up to hosted storage. If your house is destroyed, are you really going to care about your TBs of ripped music? No, you're going to care about your finances, your family photos, etc. The ones that were just destroyed along with your pretty little NAS, if you didn't have offsite backups of some sort or another. Besides, there are multiple reputable backup services that offer unlimited or very high-limit storage, so your point about "50GB limit" is wrong. Sure, downloading it will take ages (Some places ship you disks!) but it's a lot better than it being gone forever, is it not?

Hi there

Ripping CD's to flac -- I have bought in my time around 1000 - 1500 CD's -- if you assume these are around 600 MB average then 0.6 X 1.5 X 10**3 = 9TB just for Audio. When I first started buying music - iPODS and mp3 format hadn't even been THOUGHT of. VINYL was still quite big and for the rest it was all CD's.

(I'm glad I did rip these too -- sometimes unlike VINYL - old CD's can become unplayable !!!).

I also archive DVD's to ISO images -- at an average of around 7 - 8 GB for a standard DVD9 or larger for Blu ray you only need to have around 12 DVD's per TB.

I have TWO copies backed up to external HDD's - I use anyDVD to extract the ISO from commercial DVD's / Blu Ray's and rip the audio CD's to FLAC with the old WINAMP program.

Nothing pirated there.

I HATE compressed mp3 music -- however people downloading tracks from iTunes in highly compressed mp3 format probably can't understand why a music library could be several TB's in size.

My phone can play FLAC and there's a 64 GB micro sdHC card in it so I just copy what I want every so often on to the phone.

I rarely buy CD's / DVD's any more but I still wanted to archive my collection in LOSSLESS formats.

I also store discs offsite too. - However if my house burned down or I was a victim of some other natural (or even man made) disaster I think I wouldn't be too worried about my backups !!! there'd be a lot more to do first. However a much more likely scenario is you could get burgled - so store data also off site -- your DATA in a lot of cases is far more valuable than the actual hardware (computer / laptop etc) itself.

Fortunately where I live this type of petty crime is pretty rare - if I did get an "uninvited guest" I think the dogs would "enjoy their dinner" and the local Police would probably applaud the dogs too!!. All we get is a bit of boisterousness in the evenings in the town centres on Thur-Sun nights as people go out drinking / eating / partying etc etc. Nothing problematic there.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[andrew129260]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

Sounds the same to me.

Sigh* You people just do not get it. And I am not going to bother trying to explain it over and over. A lot of others here have easily explained multiple good reasons as to not use these services. It's fine if you like cloud backups, but I do not and will not trust them.

Case closed.

 

[HammerHead]

Lost Cause

Andrew, you will not be able to convince these wannabe techies. If I have any data that I cannot do without, I sure wouldn't trust it to someone who is in the business of making money.

 

[The Nude Dude]

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

So I assume all of you dissing cloud backups are all managing your own offsite storage then? Otherwise this is basically the equivalent of saying you don't trust cars so you don't leave the house.

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

i'm andrew129260 "please tell me you are joking. sorry but anyone in their right mind wouldn't trust the cloud. in my case i have 4 internal hdd's not counting c which hold everything i do not want to loose if for some reason c goes down. i also have a large usb 3.0 hdd that holds a synced copy of everything on those 4 drives plus the items on my desktop, so basically i am my own cloud service.

 

[Layback Bear]

If one wants their backup on a server somewhere in the world so be it.
If one wants to trust the people somewhere in the world with their data, so be it.
What ever trips your trigger.

For me my data is safer under my care (TLC). I trust me.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Please tell me you are joking.......that is not even close to the same thing.

Sounds the same to me.

Sigh* You people just do not get it. And I am not going to bother trying to explain it over and over. A lot of others here have easily explained multiple good reasons as to not use these services. It's fine if you like cloud backups, but I do not and will not trust them.

Case closed.

Just because you say the case is closed doesn't mean it is. The cloud is a tool and, just like any other tool, there are incorrect, and even dangerous, ways to use it and correct, safe ways to use it. Cloud technology is still in its infancy and has a lot of maturing to do. I can remember when people were doing the same naysaying about the internet, about how dangerous it was, and that they would never use it.

The cloud is nothing but a way of utilizing the internet to connect between a user and remote storage, software, etc. True, there are companies and government who want to abuse the cloud concept (and some already are) to further their own ends, be it for profit, privacy invasion, and/or whatever. It is up to the users to pick and choose how they will use the cloud, including not to use it, and ensure that their own interests are protected. There is nothing wrong with the cloud itself anymore than there is anything wrong with the internet.

 

[margrave]

What's the problem with putting data in the cloud? If it's proprietary and it needs protection, negotiate that into the business contract. (That's pretty standard, anyway.)

And ... you encrypt the filesystem on your desktops and laptops, right? Do likewise with your cloud data!

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

What's the problem with putting data in the cloud? If it's proprietary and it needs protection, negotiate that into the business contract. (That's pretty standard, anyway.)

And ... you encrypt the filesystem on your desktops and laptops, right? Do likewise with your cloud data!

It's nice to know that someone here "gets it". The misconceptions in this thread are staggering.

 

[andrew129260]

So let me put it this way then.

You encrypt your data, and store it locally. Doesn't it make sense to do that more then just giving your external hard drive to a stranger with it encrypted and them promising not to crack the encryption and look at the data-I mean hold onto it for you?

 

[HammerHead]

Encryption

Anything that can be encrypted can be UNencrypted.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

So let me put it this way then.

You encrypt your data, and store it locally. Doesn't it make sense to do that more then just giving your external hard drive to a stranger with it encrypted and them promising not to crack the encryption and look at the data-I mean hold onto it for you?

There isn't any point in using encryption that can be cracked. However, there are encryption standards available to anyone that can't be cracked by even the NSA.

Your analogy doesn't hold water. Sure, you can hold onto your data yourself but a local disaster (fire, flood, theft, mechanical failure, user error, malware, etc.) can wipe out that data. The same can happen if your data is only stored offsite in someone else's hands. The idea is to store data locally and a duplicate offsite so that, if one is lost, you still have the other. The more copies you have scattered about (not all in one location), the better (up to a point; too much can be too expensive and too cumbersome to maintain). As for the stranger part, there are companies that have been proven over time to be trustworthy and reliable. You do have to do your homework.

Frankly, I'm stunned by the amount of prejudice and ignorance being displayed in this thread on the subject of cloud computing coming from people I know are intelligent.

 

[HammerHead]

Myth

Quote: There isn't any point in using encryption that can be cracked. However, there are encryption standards available to anyone that can't be cracked by even the NSA.

That is a myth. Which they would like for you to believe.

 

[andrew129260]

I am stunned to think that people actually believe encryption is 100% safe.

Nothing is ever 100% safe. There is no such thing as perfect security ever. There will never be uncrackable encryption. Humans made it, Humans are not perfect. As long as Humans make the encryption, it can be cracked by humans. Even if the company you give your data to cares about it and tries to protect it, it does not stop others on the internet from getting it. Encryption is a deterrent, (like locking your car, having an alarm) not a complete solution. It does not stop them as they can break a window.
If you have offline data, you do not need to worry about any of that. Why take the risk?

That is like saying (since you guys seem to like car analogies) I will lock my car and set the alarm. But I am parking it in a dangerous neighborhood (the internet). But because of my alarm, I will be safe. (encryption, backup company)

Anyone who knows a thing or two finds that hilarious.

Why not park it in a good area of town, - (offline-external hard drive) or better yet in front of a police station if its easily available? - (external backup in fireproof safe)

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Quote: There isn't any point in using encryption that can be cracked. However, there are encryption standards available to anyone that can't be cracked by even the NSA.

That is a myth. Which they would like for you to believe.

Really? Can you back that up?