More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

[bobafetthotmail]

Yep. System restore is cool but not really reliable. Imaging is and has always been reliable since I started using it.

As for "creeping corruption", I suppose it's something for XP, that accumulates absurd errors and trash everywhere as time passes, forcing you to reinstall every now and then. I always thought XP SP3-from-the-start installs were resistant enough to that if properly cleaned with CCleaner and checkdisked once a month. Vista was a sad joke, but on win 7 this is more or less absent.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I've had bad luck with System Restore not working so I prefer images. Of course, YMMV.

I've had ~30% of System Restore attempts fail.
Most of those were on XP though.

I've had 2 failures on W7.

There seem to be many different reasons for restore points to either disappear or to fail. If you depend on restore points, you are liable to get stuck. That's why I prefer images that I can manage myself.

 

[Night Hawk]

When I tinker I use restore points when needed and with Windows 7 I haven't had any problems.

Despite not having done more then use the shortcut to create extra points if any install becomes too problematic either an image is restored or if the install is a year or longer the drive is simply wiped! Of course I can still wipe the drive at any time despite down time getting all programs back on like finding an image is too old since everything is regularly backed up on two primary storage drives as I go along.

I never have to schedule any backups using an option or 3rd party tool since updates are stored locally not simply run on completion of download and other things like 3rd party tools and apps are seeing multiple downloads to each drive as I go along. Some are also stored on the main drive there for convenience while limiting that a bit to keep image sizes down.

The one other thing Vista/7 brought in besides stability and security has been built in backup options found to be reliable in most cases! Too bad Vista only saw the image option in the Ultimate and Corporate editions while 7 and now 8 see that in all editions. If you don't have Acronis, Norton Ghost, or some other 3rd party ware no worries MS has you covered there! Too bad they failed on too many other things as far as 8 is being looked at.

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm not saying a backup or image shouldn't be done. I just stated the restore point works well for me.

 

[gregrocker]

A more refined definition for creeping corruption might be any accumulation of problems which remain unsolved or only partially solved that appear to cause Win7 to perform less than we know it's able.

An example would be the relatively frequent browser attacks we see from spyware, adware, toolbars and so-called search services that are full-on spyware. These often come in on the average consumer's PC when they download freeware that pays for itself by whoring for this crapware.

Even if it eventually gets turned off in Add-Ons, uninstalled in Control Panel, rooted out in the Registry by the latest Super spyware cleaner, the effects can linger. I'm connected to my Aunt's PC at a Panera right now (she has dial-up) trying to stave off a remote Clean Reinstall by undoing these effects.

 

[theveterans]

I agree. Once the PC is infected with crapwares, there's nothing to bring it back to its performance before the infection. The only way is to clean install or restore a complete system image before the infection.

 

[Layback Bear]

Greg where is Panera?

 

[mjf]

An example would be the relatively frequent browser attacks we see from spyware, adware, toolbars and so-called search services that are full-on spyware. These often come in on the average consumer's PC when they download freeware that pays for itself by whoring for this crapware.

Can you be more specific. I am aware of Opencandy which can be avoided on install of the free application or removed afterwards. I assume you are not just talking about tracking cookies.
How does one detect these gremlins. If you cannot detect them how do you know they exist in the first place? Won't Malwarebytes or especially Windows Defender Offline pick them up?

Most of us use freeware and it would be nice to remove unwanted hangers on - any suggestions? What is Panera?
I use Malwarebytes and NIS (which claims spyware protection). I also have Spybot portable which I haven't bothered to use yet.
How does system imaging aggravate this problem?

 

[Wenda]

Almost all freeware-carried malware or unwanted programs/toolbars can be avoided by simply reading the installation screens and declining the 'extras', rather than just automatically clicking 'OK', 'OK', OK'....

If a freeware program won't let me install it without the crapware, I simply dump it and look for an alternative.

There's no shortage of them.


Wenda.

 

[gregrocker]

My point is that these infections rarely completely clean up but leave residual effects that are what I describe as corruption. It's buildup is the creep.

OpenCandy is a great example, but there are countless others. There's no reason to ever select any other offered freeware when downloading. But we've all seen the ways they try to sneak it by. The average user just blindly clicks Next.

Another example is fake AV scan infection which many insist they've cleaned up but I've never seen performance return to par. So infection, spyware, et al can be cleaned up and still performance takes a permanent hit, Creeps some more. Many with factory preinstalls never know what Win7 performance can be, Creepiest of all.

Panera is the sandwich shop with free wifi where my Aunt takes her laptop so I can connect to clean up the latest spyware attack. She lives in the sticks and has dial-up.

To try to bring it back OT, here's a musical tribute to Windows 8:

 

[mjf]

Panera is the sandwich shop with free wifi where my Aunt takes her laptop so I can connect to clean up the latest spyware attack. She lives in the sticks and has dial-up.

I looked up Panera and all I could see was reference to bread. Now I know why

 

[Wenda]

I do agree with you regarding 'creep' Greg, and also about these so-called 'virus scans'.

I got hit with one of them in my 'net-noob' days on an XP-equipped netbook. It was the very devil to get rid of, and the OS was always flaky afterwards, despite appearing to be 'clean'.

A clean install was the only way to go, as I had no images back then.


Wenda.

 

[mjf]

Well you know the ultimate solution - pull that plug that connects you to the Internet. Even MS downloads foul some PCs up. As to Opencandy I do not believe it is insidious and easy to remove all remnants if you like. If you want free to air TV you have to suffer the adds.
I've posted a question on "Spybot" in System Security.

 

[Dallas 7]

I don't use images to do what System Restore is meant to do and does fine. I use images to apply my customized install to the target or any other PC in minutes.

Creeping corruption is the main reason many enthusiasts in days of yore did regular reinstalls and still do. With a baseline image you get your customized reinstall in its untouched or pristine state.

Nothing illogical about that, just another way of doing things.

Sounds logical to me.

 

[Night Hawk]

I'm not saying a backup or image shouldn't be done. I just stated the restore point works well for me.

For fast minor instances the System Restore feature will generally roll things right back to normal. The advantages of having one or more image available is for the more involved and pointless situations where you would either need to restore an image or see a fresh install go on. That's when too much time has passed or the clutter in the registy as well as system file corruption is too extensive.

Almost all freeware-carried malware or unwanted programs/toolbars can be avoided by simply reading the installation screens and declining the 'extras', rather than just automatically clicking 'OK', 'OK', OK'....

If a freeware program won't let me install it without the crapware, I simply dump it and look for an alternative.

There's no shortage of them.


Wenda.

There are a mountain of crapwares tossed in with freebie. Not all of them have the easy simply uncheck box however! When trying out ZipOpener off of a gaming site the browser here suddenly would not open yet would be running. You can imagine what the H is going on?!

What they did was package a bbmb in there for browser hijacking! boomday shopping site which backfires on anything Mozilla however while not effecting IE expect soon to see popups or some other crap appear. WaterFox(64bit flavor of FireFox) was even reinstalled trying to debug things. But when going over the programs installed list the bug was found and removed to suddenly see all back to normal.

Generally I will spot and dump any unwanted guest addons while always the custom install option when available. But this was one example of a concealed adware not being found until sometime after showing they tend to be getting things through a bit more cleverly these days!

The one other thing to note is that not all spywares, adwares, bots, etc. will trash Windows where an image restoration or clean install is even needed. Many are simply locked into the registry or have a protected file remaining active. Once nuked the bug is no longer a problem. Saw that with one "get you to buy fake spyware remover" snare where a quick boot into Safe Mode after simply moving the file from one folder to another.

When not being able to nuke it while active in a normal startup it was able to be instantly deleted once rebooted into Safe Mode and the normal scan with the av/antimalware protection to follow once the next normal startup took place found and removed the alleged trojans and fakeware after. The laptop at the time was then free of all bugs and in excellent running condition.

The thing to know is that many of the newer bugs are geared to pass off as normal user install apps to prevent any av or other protections from flagging them as what they by hiding any malicious coding. Once made inactive they can be manually removed usually rather quickly. And that's probably the one thing 8 now can take credit for is having a working MS Security Essentials renamed to Windows Defender included when someone doesn't invest in any better softwares.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Agreed

I've had bad luck with System Restore not working so I prefer images. Of course, YMMV.

I've had ~30% of System Restore attempts fail.
Most of those were on XP though.

I've had 2 failures on W7.

There seem to be many different reasons for restore points to either disappear or to fail. If you depend on restore points, you are liable to get stuck. That's why I prefer images that I can manage myself.

I usually create a SR point and an image (when I'm tinkering).
If the SR point fails, I use the image.

 

[PaulGo]

A look at the black underbelly of Windows 8.1 'Blue'

Pieces of Windows 8 inexplicably didn't survive jump to Windows 8.1, and new feature allows Microsoft to track your local searches

As Windows 8.1 Milestone Preview testers push and prod their way into the dark corners of Windows 8.1 "Blue," they're finding a bunch of things that go bump in the night. From new and likely unwelcome features, to nudges into the Microsoft data tracking sphere, to entire lopped-off pieces of Windows 8, it looks like Microsoft is changing Windows to further its own agenda.


...The new Win8.1 Smart Search -- invoked by default through the Windows 8.1 Search charm -- not only searches your computer for the string you specify. It also, all by itself, gathers up the terms and runs them through a Bing search. Making this cool new feature all the more lovable, Microsoft has officially announced that advertisers will be able to dish up advertising to your computer, based on the searches you perform on your computer.

A look at the black underbelly of Windows 8.1 'Blue' | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld

 

[bobafetthotmail]

advertisers will be able to dish up advertising to your computer, based on the searches you perform on your computer.

I'm still not impressed. I was lead to believe that they were going to put ads on the tiles thingy.
I want ads on tiles.

No seriously. 8 is going downhill fast. Now they decided to integrate crapware and spyware in the OS.

 

[SIW2]

Part of the plan. Any wheeze to monetise the consumers. Lovely, isnt it.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Part of the plan. Any wheeze to monetise the consumers. Lovely, isnt it.

Delightful.