More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

[SIW2]

To all those who delude themselves that 8 is not depressing sales, MS have now said so themselves.

I posted this on EF - worth repeating here:


Not that bothered about 8? You're not alone. To even the most disinterested observer, it's clear Microsoft has a lot work to do...

The change in tone.. was marked. Gone were the big messages about the Windows 8 Start screen and Windows 8-style apps... has the Start screen been over-emphasised?

I've changed my pitch...from starting with the Start screen to starting with the Windows desktop.

it's about doing their Windows 7 stuff and slowly get into 'OK I can do other things as well'. And suddenly it's 'well, I've got all these free apps I didn't know I had and I can play Angry Birds

I have been saying that since before it was released.

Moulster mused over whether there was a skew between early adopters and "people who are less techy". He also suggested that coming to Windows 8 without stigma does have positive results on touch-based devices.

Just when you think they are getting it ....oops, the use of the word stigma.That might explain why it took so long for the penny to drop. Or it might be they don't want to admit they were trying to force it. Either way - it is insulting - not a good idea to say it.

"I bought my mother, who's 76, a surface and - obviously while I helped her somewhat - she loves it and just gets on with it. She does her email, online banking, she does everything. What she doesn't use is the desktop. She doesn't really know it's there - she's got fairly simple needs.

Ian, she can do all that on cheap android thing, probably without any help. So what is your USP?


Microsoft: emphasis on Start Screen shackled Windows 8 | News | TechRadar

 

[mjf]

Yes SIW2,
Maybe strategic planning is an ancient art.
I could lump in "Group think" plus others!

 

[Dallas 7]

Windows Product Manager Ian Moulster is exhibiting absolute arrogance, and still just doesn't get it. He's still making stupid excuses for W8's flop.
To him, it's not M$'s fault at all, it's the fault of those ignorant consumers who just don't know enough to do what M$ wants them to do.
I've got news for Moulster, he's badly mistaken if he thinks insulting the intelligence of M$'s consumers is the way to coerce them into buying the garbage he's pushing.

 

[legacy7955]

Windows Product Manager Ian Moulster is exhibiting absolute arrogance, and still just doesn't get it. He's still making stupid excuses for W8's flop.
To him, it's not M$'s fault at all, it's the fault of those ignorant consumers who just don't know enough to do what M$ wants them to do.
I've got news for Moulster, he's badly mistaken if he thinks insulting the intelligence of M$'s consumers is the way to coerce them into buying the garbage he's pushing.

The really tragic and silly thing about the Windows 8 "metro" debacle is that with only TWO small changes that would have been ZERO problem to implement would have been to allow a default boot to desktop at every start up, and return the start menu. Problem solved.

Steve Ballmer's head should roll for this.

What I can't understand is why Paul Allen, Bill Gates, the BoD and the shareholders haven't pushed to correct this very simple problem. If you skip Metro, Windows 8 is even better than Windows 7 when it comes to functionality and speed.

 

[Dallas 7]

Obviously BestBuy is not the only store where people are standing in the return line with their W8 computers:
I just received a flyer in the mail from the Micro Center store here in Dallas today advertising all their sales and bargains.

Included in the flyer were 12 "Refurbished" laptops.
Of those 12, 10 were W8 laptops! One needs to think only for a moment to realize W8 hasn't been out long enough to need refurbishing. The only logical reason is they bought it, hated it, and traded in for a W7 unit.
Those 10 were probably traded in for a loss to the consumer, how many more were bought, hated, but never returned, maybe pushed off on a teenage family member or they're just living with it unhappily?

Windows Product Mgr Ian Moulster probably considers those people to be just another example of what he described as "less techy" consumers who are just not smart enough to do what M$ wants them to do.

 

[gregrocker]

The really tragic and silly thing about the Windows 8 "metro" debacle is that with only TWO small changes that would have been ZERO problem to implement would have been to allow a default boot to desktop at every start up, and return the start menu. Problem solved.

Not quite. Once you reinstate the Start Menu with a program like Windows 7 Start Menu for Windows 8 that grafts on the exact same Win7 Start Menu, the crApps are still set at default until you uninstall all of them to get back to a decent Reader, PhotoViewer, WMP, etc. Even then it takes some tinkering in Default Programs.

I resent having to tweak my Win8 installs to get the perfect Desktop experience which Win7 provides out of box, not when Win7 doesn't show the slightest sign of age and should be on all of those PC's sitting in the stores going unsold, or returned because Users feel a cruel trick was played putting a touchscreen OS on a new PC without touch they bought.

What I can't understand is why Paul Allen, Bill Gates, the BoD and the shareholders haven't pushed to correct this very simple problem. If you skip Metro, Windows 8 is even better than Windows 7 when it comes to functionality and speed.

Overreaction to Ipad, resulting in a knock off that ruins MS supremacy in Desktop Experience (what all productive people rely upon) and ironically doesn't really even compete with what they hoped to imitate in spite of interesting "live tiles."

Once you buy the self-fulfilling prophecy that desktop is dead, the model becomes going mobile and monetizing apps - something that doesn't translate to MS strength on the desktop, but does ruin it.

You're not far off about bully-boy "take it or leave it" attitudes which were in high gear trying to pressure business to go Win8 when forced to leave XPired soon. Dire warnings were made about BIOS infections (we never see here) if they don't go with Win8 Secure Boot. Business answered with apparent 100% migration to Win7, vindicating us here. and throwing a wrench into the gears to bury Win7 quickly.

There is no successor yet to Win7. Carry on here at it's home.

 

[lehnerus2000]

It only took him 18 months ...

The change in tone.. was marked. Gone were the big messages about the Windows 8 Start screen and Windows 8-style apps... has the Start screen been over-emphasised?

I've changed my pitch...from starting with the Start screen to starting with the Windows desktop.

it's about doing their Windows 7 stuff and slowly get into 'OK I can do other things as well'. And suddenly it's 'well, I've got all these free apps I didn't know I had and I can play Angry Birds

I have been saying that since before it was released.

Me too.

It only took him 18 months to figure that out.
It's easy to see how that guy earns his enormous salary. :sarc:

Overreaction to Ipad, resulting in a knock off that ruins MS supremacy in Desktop Experience (what all productive people rely upon) and ironically doesn't really even compete with what they hoped to imitate in spite of interesting "live tiles."

I've said it before ... iPanic!

 

[Night Hawk]

I had a simple solution to the entire Win 8 debacle. I simply did not buy into 8 in any form but am staying with 7 regardless of how thrilled some are at the faster boot time and why they are now running a smaller OS then 7! That's right MS stripped the OS down to make it more suitable for Tablet along with seeing a tablet gui replace any form of traditional desktop concept.

When the OEMs decided to develop their own Start menus I think someone at MS finally woke up as the returns of new 8 machines were leading to retailers complaints about not being able to sell and keep sold the new 8 pcs! This is the drawback in investing everything into promoting Surface while trashing the desktop having the obvious consequences!

Now for using Classic Shell you can have that one start automatically on 8 with a little work of dragging the main exe out of the program folder onto the desktop in order to be able to right click and create a new shortcut for that and then drag the exe file back into the original program folder. You then browse to the "C:\AppData\Microsoft>Windows\Start Menu(yes a Start menu folder in 8)\Programs\Startup\". And then you press and hold the enter/return key once you reach the 8 Welcome streen provided you haven't assigned a password, pin code, or image file to login with to arrive instantly at the desktop.

Pain in der kister each and every time however over something that have been automatic! or at least have seen the options for! But then someone's(someone at MS that is) idea of how to plaster Surface as the new wonderment all over was to use hindsight in making the desktop releases look the same as tablet?!

Meanwhile a friend has an 8 laptop where I can give that other Win7 addon a look since he just ordered a copy of 7 Pro x64 to replace the preinstalled 8 for 7! When looking up that particular Toshiba model had a 7 x64 set of drivers as well as for each 8 edition which shows Toshiba was using their heads in still seeing 7 available on their latest Satelite series which had been seeing Vista and 7.

 

[gregrocker]

I have not found any WIn8 PC that doesn't have WIn7 drivers for either 32- or 64- bit in the installer or delivered quickly via Windows Updates. One or two missing can be found quickly via a web search.

This is not an issue, so when someone mentions it I think they are visiting from the XP era and want to start chipping the ice away from them.

I've not seen a device for which a Win7 driver cannot be found since beta, in tens of thousands of installs. I asked my friends at Summit who are the top posters at MS Forums and they can't remember any either.

 

[Night Hawk]

Win 7 drivers were the only ones used on the CP and RP builds to begin with. The one thing MS got right besides and what helped 7 big time was pressing OEMs to have driver support available for the 7 beta releases back at the end of 2008! Toshiba and other sites will see Win 7/8 on each update at the support sites.

Even without 7 marked on driver sets as you know Vista drivers would go right onto 7 and run without problems. I suspect a good deal of those would also run on 8 as well as on 7. That's about the only common thing besides the BCD store all three share in common despite the changes seen in the boot organization with 8 namely the secure boot which can often hamper any dual boot attempts especially when going to add an entry for Vista or 7 in the 8 BCD not vice versa where no problems were seen.

 

[jimbo45]

Windows Product Manager Ian Moulster is exhibiting absolute arrogance, and still just doesn't get it. He's still making stupid excuses for W8's flop.
To him, it's not M$'s fault at all, it's the fault of those ignorant consumers who just don't know enough to do what M$ wants them to do.
I've got news for Moulster, he's badly mistaken if he thinks insulting the intelligence of M$'s consumers is the way to coerce them into buying the garbage he's pushing.

The really tragic and silly thing about the Windows 8 "metro" debacle is that with only TWO small changes that would have been ZERO problem to implement would have been to allow a default boot to desktop at every start up, and return the start menu. Problem solved.

Steve Ballmer's head should roll for this.

What I can't understand is why Paul Allen, Bill Gates, the BoD and the shareholders haven't pushed to correct this very simple problem. If you skip Metro, Windows 8 is even better than Windows 7 when it comes to functionality and speed.

Hi there
I Trade Ms Options on the Markets quite regularly -- the stock touched its 52 week yesterday unlike "The Fruit Company" -- so why should I get involved -- and most stock holders probably don't even KNOW what a computer is far less anything about Windows. !!

The stock holders don't care if Ms started manufacturing GARDENING products for all they care so long as the Stock price improves. Sad but True --there it is.

Graph enc

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

Stockholders wouldn't care about indiscretions of the company or it's personnel.
Unless it became a liability as the share prices would go down...

 

[gregrocker]

Yes Windows 7 sales are pulling them through. Maybe they'll take notice its the best OS ever and deserves a worthy successor years from now.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Windows 7 isn't the issue here -- as a Desktop OS nobody is complaining --unless you had one of those rather poor Windows 7 phones --the new W8 phones really are streets ahead - whatever one thinks of the merits of W7 / W8 ad Desktop OS'es.

Ms doesn't actually depend any more on Windows as to its survival -- it won't make the same mistake like other companies such as AGFA / ILFORD / KODAK who really couldn't understand Digital Photography was here to stay. - In fact Kodak were really stupid as they were one of the FIRST companies to embrace Digital photography -- but then it all went pear shaped for them.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[mjf]

I bought the cheap W8 upgrade and haven't bothered with it. I have 2 W7s on the shelf and they will be used first. If there was an agreed linux standard supported by the big 3rd party software houses then goodbye MS.

 

[PaulGo]

Microsoft Prepares U-Turn on Windows 8

...Analysts warned that changing course would be a significant admission of failure for Steve Ballmer, chief executive, who called the October launch of Windows 8 a "bet-the-company" moment as Microsoft sought to respond to the success of Apple's iPad.


...Richard Doherty, analyst at tech research firm Envisioneering, said: "This is like New Coke, going on for seven months – only Coke listened better." Coca-Cola dropped its New Coke formula in response to a consumer backlash less than three months after launch.

Microsoft Prepares U-Turn on Windows 8

 

[Night Hawk]

Yes Windows 7 sales are pulling them through. Maybe they'll take notice its the best OS ever and deserves a worthy successor years from now.

I think that would be the scope of things for the next "major" desktop release wouldn't set for years later but for the very next and not being totally focused on promoting tablets! When you hear professionals out in the field calling 8 a crap OS and advising people to revert back to Vista or 7 to run their softwares you know MS got too far offtrack from what does work for the desktop platform!

As far as MS solely surviving on Windows alone? Not happening! With their resources they could get away with an 8 flop for the intent of promoting Surface as I was saying before having everything look the same at the cost of the desktop. Surface is their new pet project while their revenues come in from the corporate side with their office wares.

It's easy to see where 7 has been the best out since it works for the desktop platform which it was designed for. Win 8 on the other hand is the latest MS ambition of grabbing at the mobile market and is now coming out with a smaller then Surface tablet to compete. Small Windows tablets on the way to satisfy no existing market | ZDNet

MS isn't going to worry too much either way about restoring the Start menu or as the 8.1 blogs suggest some form of start button being returned to please the desktop. They want to flex their muscles into the other market and make a big noise!

 

[gregrocker]

"...like combining a toaster and a fridge – something that, while technically possible, was "probably not going to be pleasing to the user".

The fixes being discussed are not even close to what's needed.

They need to put Win7 back on all non-touchscreen PC's in the stores, or they will not sell.

Either that or SP the Start button back in but then you have Win7 SP2.

They need to trap you on that Metro screen to peddle the crApps. That's their 8 business model, code-named New Coke.

Just release 8 on touchscreens and Win7 on PC's where they belong. Slip 8 Explorer improvements into Win7 SP2 and you have a whole lot of happy customers.

 

[mjf]

"...like combining a toaster and a fridge – something that, while technically possible, was "probably not going to be pleasing to the user".

Then there is something called reverse cycle air conditioning. I still think MS could have had their cake and eat it too with W8. Maybe it will be Windows 9.

 

[gregrocker]

"...like combining a toaster and a fridge – something that, while technically possible, was "probably not going to be pleasing to the user".

Then there is something called reverse cycle air conditioning. I still think MS could have had their cake and eat it too with W8. Maybe it will be Windows 9.

What's ironic is 8 has an advantage over Ipad with Live Tiles. They should have sold that, not putting the toaster in a refrigerator which freaked out their desktop user base.