Multi Purpose PC - Your Opinions Please

[thehappyman]

I want to play some nice games (but I'm not a serious "gamer"), I do a lot of Photo work and manage photo databases which each contain over 50,000 very hi-res photos, I work a lot with music, do some CAD work, and then use the computer for all the other common things that most people do.
So I bought a new computer - my old computer with XP Pro died (had a 3.2 ghz overclocked Q6700 with 4 gig ram, GTX 880 SLI). I wanted something a little snappier
So what do you all think ???? I'm planing on having a blast (and I dont like slow computers). Your opinions please

New Computer
=================
Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit OS
Core I7 980X CPU overclocked to 3.73 Ghz (water cooled)
12 Gigabytes 1600 Mhz DDR3 triple channel ram
Single Nvidia GTX 480 Video Card
600 Gig Raid 0 10,000 rpm C Drive
Additional 7200 rpm data drives (computer holds up to 6 drives)
USB 2.0 and 3.0
Blu Ray Read/Write DVD/CD
30 inch Dell 3007WFP LCD Display @ 2500 x 1600 resolution
850 Watt Power Supply

Cheers Everybody

 

[Lomai]

Hi



Have not tried it yet but have you considered using SSD's for your OS drive? Or is capacity an issue for you?
And one last question - the mobo?

Regards

 

[Petey7]

As long as your spending a $1000 on a 6-core CPU with hyperthreading, you are going to want an SSD. A HDD will be a major bottle-neck in that kind of set up.

 

[thehappyman]

Hi



Have not tried it yest but have you considered using SSD's for your OS drive? Or is capacity an issue for you?
And one last question - the mobo?

Regards

Not sure of the Mobo but it supports the X58 chipset (wont know until I get the PC but I'm sure it's a good mobo brand because its comming from a good company). Yes, I did look at Solid State Drives and I could have opted for one (at at good deal of additional cost). I have been told, by more than 1 source that as the solid state drive fills up that it's speed benefits drop very considerably. Whether this is true or not, I dont know, but after hearing it from more than 1 source I opted for the dual striping 10K drives. The Cost of even a 300 gig SSD is considerable - this pc has already dented my wallet a little. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[thehappyman]

As long as your spending a $1000 on a 6-core CPU with hyperthreading, you are going to want an SSD. A HDD will be a major bottle-neck in that kind of set up.

Another vote for the SSD !!!!!!

 

[Vertex]

I think what they were trying to say is that all of the hardware you want for your new PC is just top class but the hard disk you chose was just below that league.

You have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit and some hardware like 12 GBs or RAM and the fastest CPU on Earth Core i7 980X CPU overclocked to 3.73 Ghz (water cooled), of course you would also want your hard disk to be advanced so better get an SSD instead so that all of them are top class. How's that???

I wish one day I could get a system as good or even half as good as this one you are planning to get one day.

Those specs are surely MORE than enough your needs.

 

[thehappyman]

I think what they were trying to say is that all of the hardware you want for your new PC is just top class but the hard disk you chose was just below that league.

You have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit and some hardware like 12 GBs or RAM and the fastest CPU on Earth Core i7 980X CPU overclocked to 3.73 Ghz (water cooled), of course you would also want your hard disk to be advanced so better get an SSD instead so that all of them are top class. How's that???

I wish one day I could get a system as good or even half as good as this one you are planning to get one day.

Those specs are surely MORE than enough your needs.

Thank you for the kind words and good explanation - Unfortunatley (although I cant wait to get it) the PC is already being "built", right now, and its too late for me to change the order at this time. It will arrive in about two weeks. I can, at a later date, order a Solid State C Drive, as you and others have suggested. This will become especially more viable as SSD capacities increase and prices drop. If I had ordered my system with a 250 gig SSD I think it would have cost me $1,000 more. So, as soon as prices drop a bit I will order one. I see more and more ads for SSD's all the time. Thank you again for the comments. I would still like to get to the bottom of the comments that were made to me (from more than 1 source) regarding the extreme degradation of performance in an SSD as it begins to fill up. Need to do some more research.

 

[Lomai]

Thanks and have fun with the new box
Here's an article that I had bookmarked earlier from one of the SF threads - The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD (AnandTech)

Take care and regards

 

[thehappyman]

Thanks and have fun with the new box
Here's an article that I had bookmarked earlier from one of the SF threads - The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD (AnandTech)

Take care and regards

Wow, thats quite an article on SSD's. It looks like the TRIM process prevents most of the Degradation that I heard about. Well, since I cant change my order at this stage of the game, and since SSD's are still pricey (I already emptied my piggy bank for this system) I guess I'll use the Raid 0 drives for a while until prices drop some more. And prices will drop as these drives become more popular (and larger). Then I'll get one. Some day in the future we will all look back and laugh about the days when computers used mechanical drives. I wont be suffering too much with a 10,000 rpm Raid 0 C drive. And since the raid 0 drive I am getting is 600 GB, I can keep one of my 50,000 picture photo library databases on the C drive along with the OS and all my other programs rather than keep the photos on a secondary drive which is what I would have to do if I had a 250 GB SSD. The average picture size is at least 5 megabytes. But I am sold on a SSD down the road.

Imagine running CHKDSK on an SSD (ha Ha) :roflmao:

Thanks a lot Lomal !!!!!

 

[pparks1]

Wow, thats quite an article on SSD's. It looks like the TRIM process prevents most of the Degradation that I heard about.

Yes,that problem was way back in the first generation drives. A lot has changed since then.

I wont be suffering too much with a 10,000 rpm Raid 0 C drive.

You won't be suffering, but then again your random access speeds will be abysmal compared to an SSD. It's the low random access times and subsequent fast as all get out random I/O speeds that make the SSD's ideal for the OS.

And since the raid 0 drive I am getting is 600 GB, I can keep one of my 50,000 picture photo library databases on the C drive along with the OS and all my other programs rather than keep the photos on a secondary drive which is what I would have to do if I had a 250 GB SSD. The average picture size is at least 5 megabytes. But I am sold on a SSD down the road.

What would be the point of being able to store pictures on the SSD?? Seriously, you can only look through them so fast. I've got an 80GB SSD for my OS and applications..but my data sits on a mechanical storage drive. You want the SSD for it's ultra low access times and blistering fast random I/O speeds...which greatly benefit the OS. I'm just always taken aback by how many people want to hold off on purchasing an SSD drive until it's xxx big. These things are not ideal for storage...and won't be for quite a number of years.

I'm sure your new box will run great. But in all honesty, it would have been faster with a slower CPU, less RAM, etc....and an SSD drive. Just saying.

 

[thehappyman]

Wow, thats quite an article on SSD's. It looks like the TRIM process prevents most of the Degradation that I heard about.

Yes,that problem was way back in the first generation drives. A lot has changed since then.

I wont be suffering too much with a 10,000 rpm Raid 0 C drive.

You won't be suffering, but then again your random access speeds will be abysmal compared to an SSD. It's the low random access times and subsequent fast as all get out random I/O speeds that make the SSD's ideal for the OS.

And since the raid 0 drive I am getting is 600 GB, I can keep one of my 50,000 picture photo library databases on the C drive along with the OS and all my other programs rather than keep the photos on a secondary drive which is what I would have to do if I had a 250 GB SSD. The average picture size is at least 5 megabytes. But I am sold on a SSD down the road.

What would be the point of being able to store pictures on the SSD?? Seriously, you can only look through them so fast. I've got an 80GB SSD for my OS and applications..but my data sits on a mechanical storage drive. You want the SSD for it's ultra low access times and blistering fast random I/O speeds...which greatly benefit the OS. I'm just always taken aback by how many people want to hold off on purchasing an SSD drive until it's xxx big. These things are not ideal for storage...and won't be for quite a number of years.

I'm sure your new box will run great. But in all honesty, it would have been faster with a slower CPU, less RAM, etc....and an SSD drive. Just saying.

Believe me I am already sold on the SSD, you need say no more - I WANT ONE !!!!!!! But the reason I want to keep one of my 50,000 picture databases on the C drive is not just so that I can view the pictures individually, - its so the database software can sort, rearrange, and manipulate the pictures as a group without having to access a secondary drive. Keeping the picture database on the C drive will be far more efficient than storing them on a secondary SATA drive. As soon as I can get an SSD thats at least 500 Gb (that I can afford) I'll get one and sell the raid 0 drives. I am pretty sure well be seeing much larger SSD's soon. A few years back the largest Thumb Drive I could buy was 8 Gb - now I can pick up a 64 GB Thumb Drive, an 800% increase in capacity. Solid State memory capacities are increasing rapidly. It wont be long until they completely replace mechanical drives. Beside my application is NOT solely dependent on disk access, read and write times and data transfer, the CPU has to do a LOT of work in this database and it needs a lot of Ram to do it in. Super fast Disk I/O would be icing on the cake (which I would love to have).

Thanks for the comments Verdana Sounds like you are enjoying your SSD !!!!

 

[pparks1]

Keeping the picture database on the C drive will be far more efficient than storing them on a secondary SATA drive.

I don't honestly see where the extra efficiency comes into play, but that is really neither here nor there.

As soon as I can get an SSD thats at least 500 Gb (that I can afford) I'll get one and sell the raid 0 drives.

It's just too bad that these capacities will be awhile and will remain costly. Because you have to forego ultimate performance right now today to hold off on using an SSD for storage. My SSD was one of the best upgrades I have made to a computer EVER.

It wont be long until they completely replace mechanical drives.

Easily more than 10 years away.

 

[wysiwyg]

The SSD article is just over a year old, a year in computing terms is a long time.

 

[thehappyman]

Multi Purpose PC opinions - Revisited

Thank You All, especially LOMAI, PETEY7, VERTEX, PPARKS1, and WYSIWYG

Several Days ago I posted the specs on a new system I purchased and asked for opinions on the configuration. Everybody that replied had the same comment - Nice system but get an SSD instead of the 600 GB 10,000 rpm Raid 0 Drive. At the time I didnt think it possible for me to still change my order or come up with some extra cash. And I didnt think I could find an SSD with enough capacity for my requirements.

But your opinions mattered and I researched the SSD some more and changed my mind. I turned my piggy bank upside down again and a little more cash fell out so -

I insisted that my old order be cancelled and I reordered the identical system EXCEPT instead of the 600 GB 10,000 rpm Raid 0 Drive I ordered a 512 GB SSD RAID 0 Drive (2x256 GB) instead. The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

So I thank you all, I think I will be happier

- this system should last me quite a while.

New Computer REVISED SPECS
=================
Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit OS
Core I7 980X CPU overclocked to 3.73 Ghz (water cooled)
12 Gigabytes 1600 Mhz DDR3 triple channel ram
Single Nvidia GTX 480 Video Card

600 Gig Raid 0 10,000 rpm C Drive --------------------XXXXXXXXX Cancelled
512 Gig Raid 0 SOLID STATE C Drive (2 x 256 Samsung SSD) ---- SUBSTITUTED

Additional 7200 rpm data drives (computer holds up to 6 drives)
USB 2.0 and 3.0
Blu Ray Read/Write DVD/CD
30 inch Dell 3007WFP LCD Display @ 2500 x 1600 resolution
850 Watt Power Supply

 

[Lomai]

Thanks for keeping us posted.
Enjoy

Regards

 

[DeaconFrost]

I'm glad you ditched the RAID0 with mechanical drives. I don't have any comments on RAID arrays with SSDs, but I would have easily dropped the processor a notch, saved some serious cash, and gone with the SSDs from the very beginning. You wouldn't be giving up much in the processor department, but you could be saving hundreds.

 

[pparks1]

The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

Just be sure that whatever RAID option you went with actually supports TRIM. I know that for quite a long time, there wasn't TRIM in a RAID configuration....that may still actually be the case. I haven't researched it greatly as I have no need for my OS drive to be that big.

 

[thehappyman]

The SSD's wont suffer much degradation because of the TRIM operation supported by Windows 7. And they will be in a Raid 0 configuration for even more speed !!!! (yes, it did cost more)

Just be sure that whatever RAID option you went with actually supports TRIM. I know that for quite a long time, there wasn't TRIM in a RAID configuration....that may still actually be the case. I haven't researched it greatly as I have no need for my OS drive to be that big.

Hello Pparks1
Yes, I have researched this to death - I know I need the TRIM operation and I know its supported by Windows 7. The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

Since the computer (and all the components in it) are backed by a 4 year "bumper to bumper" warranty, I'm going to take a chance and "go for it". After I get the system I am going to do a few benchmarks on it and I'll do them once a month. If the SSD ARRAY starts slowing down, they will be the first to hear about it and I will then be getting two new SSD DRIVES. I have dealt with THIS company for the last 4 years and found their service and warranty to be "impeccably good", actually quite out of the ordinary. So I do trust them and am willing to take the risk to get the better performance.

And actually, I am looking forward to having
a 500 GB Solid State Raid 0 C Drive

 

[DeaconFrost]

The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

That sounds awfully fishy to me. I would be very nervous about going with a system from this company.

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

A single drive is non-standard? That would be my final straw, after already being cautious from the first point. If they won't let you customize something so simple, don't give them one cent of your money.

Honestly, I always have to ask this...if you researched the parts yourself, why pay someone else to assemble them and load the OS, when you'd be reloading the OS yourself anyway? By the parts, build the computer the way you want, and save yourself a nice pile of cash.

If they want to BS you into paying more for a RAID array with made up answers, you'd be crazy to give them any money. If you simply refuse to build it yourself, tell them to make it a single drive or else you'll buy from another competing company.

 

[thehappyman]

The Company I am purchasing my system from has assured me that they "came up with" a patch to the Samsung "Firmware" that allows the SSD's to respond to the TRIM command in the RAID 0 ARRAY.

That sounds awfully fishy to me. I would be very nervous about going with a system from this company.

I tried to convince the Company that a single 256 GB SSD would be more than enough capacity for me as I only intend to keep the OS and other "Programs" on the C drive, not any data. But being a bit inflexible they told me they dont want to support any "non-standard" configurations. I can understand that.

A single drive is non-standard? That would be my final straw, after already being cautious from the first point. If they won't let you customize something so simple, don't give them one cent of your money.

Honestly, I always have to ask this...if you researched the parts yourself, why pay someone else to assemble them and load the OS, when you'd be reloading the OS yourself anyway? By the parts, build the computer the way you want, and save yourself a nice pile of cash.

If they want to BS you into paying more for a RAID array with made up answers, you'd be crazy to give them any money. If you simply refuse to build it yourself, tell them to make it a single drive or else you'll buy from another competing company.

Hello DeaconFrost,
I totally agree with you - And everything has turned out just fine for me. I called the company back and this time hooked up with a different Sales Tech who was most helpful. He, We, I, made a number of changes to the system and now I am quite happy with the whole deal. I happened to "Hit" a "Sale Day" at the company too which is great.

The chages are - I will get the single 256 GB SSD for my C Drive so will have no problem with the TRIM operation, and the Video Card has been changed from the Nvidia GTX 480 (single GPU) to the ATI Radeon HD 5970 (dual GPU)w/2 GB Vid Ram and I will be getting a 10K rpm 600 GB SATA Drive for Data. I already have other SATA drives to complement the new 600 GB drive so I am all set.
And to top it all off, because of the "Sale" Date I will end up saving 22% of the total cost of the system. Now I am a happy camper.
I also kind of agree with you too about building the system myself except it's just too much hassle for me now, dont have the energy anymore - remember this system is over clocked and water cooled. I just dont want to have to order lots of parts from lots of manufacturers and have to do an integration myself (and then there would be no 4 year warranty). Buying it from this highly reputable company saves me a lot of trouble and everything arrives working and GAURATEED to stay working for 4 years.
So along with one of the fastest Processors available (over clocked and water cooled), I get one of the fastest Video Cards available with Lots of high speed ram, a Solid State C Disk Drive, USB 3.0, a Blu Ray DVD Read/Writer and Windows 7 Ultimate. It all comes tested and gauranteed.

Too bad I ran into the wrong Sales Tech the first time around.

Thanks for your good input