Networkin my 2 machines--wired

[RoWin7]

Wired, only 10' apart
Verizon FIOS
Actiontec M1424WR rev. 1

2 machines HP and Gateway, both mine. I've had HP (in my sig) a few years, just inst. Win7 in Gateway, and trying to network them. I'm a newbie networking on 7, although I did it many times on XP.

1--My network is already called RSNETWORK. Gateway wants to call the network "Home group."
Both machines see the router/modem, but have diff. names for the same network. Huh?

2--I want ALL files to be available to both computers, plus the printer, which is now on HP.
Gateway wants to share only:
D drive, which is all data
J drive, which doesn't exist, but won't delete
AppData folder
Users folder

3--I want no password, don't know if it's required, Gateway insists on a PW, and closes the Network folder if I don't put one in.

4--Going through the agony of UAC again, both machines visible in Network, but Gateway won't let me open the HP folders. There's no "Open as admin" in the context menu.

 

[dg1261]

IME, it's difficult or impossible to do what you want with no passwords. It could be done with XP, but it's not so easy with Win7--presumably because it's more secure. While you can share certain folders without using a password, I don't think Win7 allows you to share the root (e.g., the whole C drive) without a password. I've also run into problems and confusion with certain system or user folders if there's no password, so to avoid confusion over which folders can and cannot be shared without a password, my rule of thumb is to just always set a password.

If you're willing to accept that, then try this technique. On each machine you'll need to set a user pswd, add a Windows credential for the other machine, and configure the shared resource.

1. On PC-A, set a pswd-A for user-A
2. On PC-B, set a pswd-B for user-B
3. On PC-A, add a credential for PC-B:
   • go to User Accounts (where you add/change your pswd)
   • in the left pane click "Manage your credentials"
   • click "Add a Windows credential"
   • enter IP address of PC-B (e.g., \\192.168.1.100), user-B, and pswd-B
   • click [OK]
4. On PC-B, add a credential for PC-A the same way
5. On PC-A, share the C drive:
   • open "Computer", right-click the C drive, select Properties
   • click the [Sharing] tab
   • click the [Advanced Sharing...] button
   • tick "Share this folder"
   • use "c-drive" for Share name, and click [Apply] button
   • click the [Permissions] button
   • give Full control to the "Everyone" user
   • "OK" your way back out
6. On PC-B, share its C drive the same way

If you're lucky, the shares might now show up when you browse the "Network", but IME that method is hit-or-miss, so I usually prefer to setup a shortcut on each Desktop to the other:

• on PC-A, right-click a blank area of the Desktop, select "New Shortcut"
• type PC-B's IP and the share, ala "\\192.168.3.100\c-drive", click [Next], click [Finish]
• on PC-B, do the same to add a shortcut to PC-A

Footnotes:

• PC-A and PC-B can use the same usernames and passwords; I'm just referring to them differently for the sake of clarity.
• I find Step 3 is the easiest way to make the credentials persistent, so you don't have to retype them every time you reboot the computer.
• I've used IP addresses in step 3d, though you should also be able to use the Computer names if you wish. If you use IPs, make sure you set your router to always give it the same IP.
• I usually recommend sharing folders instead of the entire C drive, but if you wish to do so it can be done.
• Use whatever name you want in 5e. I'd discourage using "C" because you'll end up confusing yourself between the C drive and the C share.
• Of course, all of the above assumes the two PCs are on the same network and can ping each other.

Hope this helps. You can tinker and do certain steps differently if you want, but this is one method I've found to work fairly consistently.

 

[Barman58]

Passwords are an essential these days, not to keep out family members from your "stuff" , but a much more serious reason - "Scum on the net"

The way that Windows, [and other systems], work means that any malware will run with the rights of the user that they take over to do their damage. Even a simple password, [8-10 Characters including letters numbers & symbols], will provide a useful extra guard against attack.

In the case of networking it can prevent a virus or worm or other malware from "jumping" between systems.

As for the set up for a small home network my method is to create an identical user on each system, set sharing options to "on" on all systems and turn on Discovery - that should be enough to allow sharing of the personal folders, [Documents, Music. Video, downloads Etc], without any issues. to hare any additional folders is a two part process, you need to "share" the folder [Tree], and ensure that the NTFS access permissions are set to include the User that needs to access them.

Microsoft has done all the work for you with the standard user folders so it's best to use them, [there are also the public folders which are available to everyone]. Using the standard functions to set a network will automatically set up the built in Windows firewall but you need to allow sharing through any 3rd party firewall so check documentation.

There is also the option on Windows 7 of setting everything to use the Homegroup setup for sharing which is simple to set up to share the standard folders, but as Microsoft is no longer supporting this it's best to use the workgroup system (always check and set the workgroup on each system to the default workgroup or a personal setting [It's often a good idea to switch off Homegroup options as they can confuse matters]

 

[samuria]

By default drives have a hidden admin share which you can access as an admin user by using a $ is d$ c$ trying to add another share gives problems

 

[RoWin7]

That's too complicated, DG1261. I already did away with Music, Videos and Downloads because I always have my own designated folders on the D partition, which is all data.

Suppose I just want to access limited folders, the D partition(all data) and my own ID in "Users" w/o a PW?

Barman- Sharing options and "discovery are already on. By "identical users" you mean just the same name? That would be confusing when I'm copying data between machines.

 

[RoWin7]

By default drives have a hidden admin share which you can access as an admin user by using a $ is d$ c$ trying to add another share gives problems

What's "$ is d$ c$ ?"

 

[Barman58]

Identical users would be as you say the identical user name, and password (the password would normally be stored by the system, so is not an issue in reality)

 

[Barman58]

Also with the dta folders being stored on the D: drive, yo can use the location tab on folder properties to link eg. Music to a music folder on D: and this would mean that those programs that expect to save can still do so, but will actually save to the data drive.

I've been doing this myself since the pre beta of win 7 without issues

 

[RoWin7]

I have both D drives and the Users folders of each machine Sharing now. Gateway still won't let me open the D Drive on the HP, although it lets me open the Users folder. Because it's a drive, not a folder? Do I still need a PW? It's not asking for one.

 

[RoWin7]

I have a 2nd problem. RESOLVED

On the Gateway I was trying to wipe the previous installation of Vista as I installed the new OS. It belonged to someone else and there's nothing to save. I wanted it wiped clean. The machine felt it was wiser than me and saved the entire C drive in a folder called Windows.old, all 91 GB. It's asking for SYSTEM permission to delete any of the system files.

An easier way to wipe out 91 GB?

I know you're an expert in these things. I'm going through the same frustration with UAC as I did on this computer 2 years ago. Otherwise I wouldn't be here on a holday evening.

Security's fine, but I don't know how people who don't use forums (the majority) can figure out how to access their files. What's the point of an admin acct if you don't have permission to do anything?

Checked my bookmarks for "Take ownership" links. Resolved.

Now back to the network problem. I just realized there's probably a tutorial here.

 

[RoWin7]

Also with the data folders being stored on the D: drive, you can use the location tab on folder properties to link eg. Music to a music folder on D: and this would mean that those programs that expect to save can still do so, but will actually save to the data drive.

I've been doing this myself since the pre beta of win 7 without issues

Yeah, I had already done that with this machine, but I thought I had invented it. I always try to make UI look like XP, my standard, as much as possible. I just work a lot faster if I have a familiar UI.

 

[RoWin7]

Barman58 https://www.sevenforums.com/members/barman58.html
or DG1261,https://www.sevenforums.com/members/dg1261.html

Don't know if you want to continue this, but here's where I am now:

-- I went into Users and changed my username to match the one on HP. But Gateway didn't change it everywhere.

--I read the tute here on Networking. Sharing is on, shares are marked "shared," Discovery is on. I set all the settings in Networking on both comps.
They're sharing the router/modem for the internet. Still not files and printer

--Tute says I don't need a PW in the homegroup, because it's a trusted part of the network but the Gateway made one for me anyway. OK, I know it's hard without one. I still can't get into the shares.

--The HP (old comp) has the network name I always use, RSNETWORK, the Gateway(new install) has one called WORKGROUP, but sometimes called HOMEGROUP, but I don't have permission to see files. Now the HP doesn't show at all.

I'm starting to make the Gateway functional anyway (It was a Vista before) I've had to move all my data meanwhile by flashdrive :shock:

 

[Barman58]

The workgroup name has to be the same on both systems, either RSNETWORK or WORKGROUP, or something else of your choosing.

Also the user name should be created on the new system identically to the old one, renaming of usernames is possible on windows but is very difficult to get all the related parts to change.

Homegroup is not a supported technology any longer, so should not be used, as the support even on those old systems such as Windows 7 and Windows 8, is unlikely to be maintained by Microsoft or Third parties

 

[RoWin7]

I know, but Gateway didn't ask me for a name. It searched for a network and said it couldn't find one, so it doesn't know the name. You had suggested I use the same name on both ends of the network, but I see changing it was a mistake. Now I have both names under "Users." Can I change it back and remove all instances of the 2nd name from the registry?

I'm on the Gateway tonight, first time on the web, have most of my programs installed. Just double-checked my settings, Gate says it doesn't see a network. I'm already 72, so it should hurry a little more.

What are you doing up at 5:00 AM?

 

[RoWin7]

This is hard if you can't see my computer. If you want any screenshots tomorrow. let me know.

 

[Barman58]

A little Networking 101 may clarify some matters, sorry if I state the obvious...

There are two levels of networking in use in a modern home, the first is the one that gives access to the internet, which is setup and accessed via the browser and then uses the Routing part of the router to access the sites and other locations you request and serves them to you. Access to this network only needs setting up for Wireless access, and in the router, and in this case it's mainly for security rather than the actual access. this form needs minimal setup for use. This is known as a WAN [Wide Area Network]

The next form of networking has been in use since long before the recent internet explosion, it is a network of devices all of which are local to a small area such as a business or home, this is known as a LAN [Local area network], this does need setting up for use on at least two levels - the network level and the file level. To set up a network you need to choose a name for it and insert this into the correct location, and then set, every computer to use it. the usage is achieved by setting each machine to share folders, to discover shared items on other computers in the workgroup this used to be known as the network neighbourhood.

Workgroup name is set using it's own dialog ..



The workgroup name has to be the same on every computer - set here

This LAN networking also has to cope with the modern need for file security, [XP and previous systems had every user as an admin so did not need this stage as it was totally open and unsecure]. the way this is achieved in a business is that each user will have their own login ID and the files (specifically Folders), will be owned by one user with other users being manually allocated access rights to them - This is a very involved process and often requires a specialist staff member or department.

There is a built in system that if you try to access a file that you do not have the correct rights for, you will be prompted to provide a username and password for someone who does have access rights, [these will be retained for future use]

In the home environment the simplest way of doing things is to create a user on every computer for every person who will use the system, these users will be able to login to any of the computers and also access any of "their" files remotely. In most cases this may be just the single user, [the owner].

There are a set of public folders, Public documents Etc. on each computer that are available to everyone on the workgroup without further access rights than access to the workgroup , so these can be used to share items without the extra work.

I prefer to setup at least one user at admin level with identical credentials on each computer in the workgroup [usually the owner of the workgroup] as this does give a better level of control - this user is created on setup of each computer

 

[RoWin7]

I've done all of this, using the tute at this site. I had no problem with it in XP. Gateway doesn't ask for my PW, just says I don't have permission to see the shares. Now the previous owner's router is listed too, and the HP shares have disappeared. This was supposed to be a clean install. Screenshots tomorrow PM.

First I have to solve the User issue. I now have 2 partial user folders, with not a full set of folders under either one. Original user name, PC-03, then the one that matches the HP, Prize-02 (origins are a long story.) Best way to fix this?
G'night.

 

[Barman58]

I would look to keep your initial machine as it is and make any changes to the "new" machine as long as you have an admin user present on that system you can remove any others and retain any data so will look for your post tomorrow

 

[RoWin7]

I have profiles for about 10 programs in AppData\Roaming and a bunch of stuff on the Desktop, etc.. When I set up a new user, can I move AppData, Desktop, StartMenu, Sendto etc into the new profile, or does it have to be done from scratch to get into the registry?

 

[Barman58]

If you set up the new admin user first (to match the old machine user) and then delete the current user you should be able to save all the user files to your new desktop and then manually transfer to the new user but I would have to check that this is still possible - It would be better to set the user up from scratch to ensure best, reliable setup

Time for bed here so will pick this up tomorrow