New Bill Would Require U.S. ISPs to Block Pirate Sites

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which doors you walk through and foods you eat

Too late,, already being done.

You will see.
 

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Piracy is defined as
1) making copies of digital media explicitly for the purpose of distribution without compensating the copyright holder
2) possession of a copy of digital media the owner wasn't compensated for
3) robbery and murder at sea

Anyone here see the incongruity here?


Hi there
I think most people know what the law SAYS -- that's not the main issue but it's the OAFISH way this sort of B/S is implemented and of course the total unenforceability of it.

For example I am technically committing an offence by lending a CD or DVD to someone or someone is also commiting an offence in say recording a BBC TV program for me that I am unable to get in Country XXXX - EVEN IF I HAVE PAID FOR THE BBC TV LICENCE FEE.

It's THIS type of Bovine scatology together with slick swarmy corporate Lawyers that put the whole thing into disrepute.

I'm sure if you purchased a great song would you feel guilty in giving it to a work colleague to listen to -- I'm sure you wouldn't.

How many of us have swapped Books etc etc in the past.

There's a difference between SENSIBLE ENFORCEABLE legislation and stuff that is basically PURE bovine scatology which anyone with even a pea size brain could get round.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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SENSIBLE ENFORCEABLE as jimbo45 has posted is the big problem. What governments I have did a little looking into have no sensibility. They don't know or have any idea what is or is not. IMHO they will not spend the time to do the research needed to understand this problem. If by chance one worries about there young ones, well they are your kids take control. It is not my job or the governments job to do this. I or anybody else can or should do this for you. Now if by chance parents don't have the knowledge to monitor or stop things they don't want there kid to see, all you have to do is come here and ask for help. We are here for you.
 

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A new law would create more government jobs. More government employees would have to be hired for enforcement purposes and support positions. Likewise, the ISPs would have to hire more people. The IRS would have to amend their already voluminous tax code to cover these newly created positions and THEY would have to hire more IRS employees. All of these newly created positions and collections of penalties by the IRS will stimulate our economy. And so on and so forth. What's not to like about this proposal??

***Sarcasm intended***
 

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What?

These old farts probably don't even know how to access the internet.

I wonder who the companies are that are bribing these guys this time .
 

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Don't worry, it won't be long now. I mean we do have real bonified, sanctioned, actually existing in the real world, present and accounted for Green Police.

They can search your trash and write tickets for fines for not recycling properly.
 

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Actually the doctrine of "Fair Use" is still alive and kicking (barely).

Even though copyright law says you technically can't lend or even resell a book or DVD. The courts would NEVER prosecute you on it because that type of behavior falls under "Fair use".

In fact you CAN lend software as well. As long as you lend it like a book or DVD. That is as long as the other person is using it, you have removed it from your posession (and computer) entirely. (Additional license restrictoins not withstaqnding and according to local law)
 

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Hm, even if they somehow stop P2P file-sharing, there's still "warez". Hah! :devil2:
 

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Much to do about nothing, This will come to a quiet end in a sub-committee somewhere as these kind of political payoffs usually do.

Even if passed it is essentially unenforceable as these very Senators and Representatives know only too well.

That makes this bill a smoke screen for political purposes and as such beneath a sensible persons notice but it makes a great sound bite.

I'm sure that the Music, Movie, Software industry would like this but they are the only ones pushing it.....Just more DRM at the peoples expense, if they want enforcement then THEY should pay for it, not the taxpayers.
 

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Much to do about nothing, This will come to a quiet end in a sub-committee somewhere as these kind of political payoffs usually do.

Even if passed it is essentially unenforceable as these very Senators and Representatives know only too well.

That makes this bill a smoke screen for political purposes and as such beneath a sensible persons notice but it makes a great sound bite.

I'm sure that the Music, Movie, Software industry would like this but they are the only ones pushing it.....Just more DRM at the peoples expense, if they want enforcement then THEY should pay for it, not the taxpayers.

Hi all

This is just the propverbial storm in a tea cup.

Has anyone holed the Pirate Bay beneath the waterline or other well know p2p sites.

Has anyone found a way to stop the use of anonymous Proxies / private vpns.

If such glaring loopholes like these are essentially unfixable they should just get on to something more pressing to their taxpayers REAL needs and stop wasting money in spouting loads of hot air and probably wasting HUGE amounts of paper in minutes and memoranda before endless subcommittees probably staffed by another load of total nobodies at vast expense too.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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AS has been stated many times here (but still demands repeating) the threat here is not access to legal/illegal torrents and pirated software, it is the ever-growing tendency of government to expand its authority over the activity of its citizens.

It is the natural tendency of government to seek greater and greater power. In America, our Founding Fathers were very much aware of this and sought to limit this as much as humanly possible. They wrote the Constitution with the specific intent of limiting what the federal government was authorized to do and what its specifically ennumerated powers were.

Since the day the Constitution was signed into existence, there have been those who have sought means of circumventing those limitations. The Bill of Rights was conceived of as a necessary protection of individual rights, but setting further limits on what the government was permitted to do, but as Alexander Hamilton foresaw, it has since been used as a license to encroach on individual rights and liberties.

In Federalist Paper #84 Hamilton says that by stating exceptions to powers which are not granted to the federal government, you invite the question "If this power is not within the authority of the government, why would they make this exception?"

As Hamilton says, it gives "a colorable pretext to claim more [powers] than were granted."

Everytime a law like this is passed, the American people lose a little bit more of their liberty and it is very disturbing to see so many blithely acquiescing to this steady errosion.

This bill is bad because it allows the government more power to do something it has no constitutional authority to do.

"Give him an inch and he will think he's a ruler." "The thin end of the wedge." "The camel's nose under the tent." "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." These tired old saying exist because they recognize a fundamental truth about governments and the men who run them. Left-Right, it doesn't matter. The less power a government holds, the greater the individual's freedom.

What Benjamin Franklin said about security applies equally to all such legislation.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."
Though the aim of this legislation may be noble and the intentions of those legislators backing it may be of the utmost honor (which I doubt), the price paid is too great.
 

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Very very well said.

It is very frustrating the number of times the "Why worry if you have nothing to hide" "argument" comes up :(

There is no single sentence rebuttle to it, it takes time to explain why that is a completely bogus position and (especially on the net) a disturbingly large number of people won't listen to anything other than a 2-3 sentence rebuttle before tuning you out. :(
 
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AS has been stated many times here (but still demands repeating) the threat here is not access to legal/illegal torrents and pirated software, it is the ever-growing tendency of government to expand its authority over the activity of its citizens.

It is the natural tendency of government to seek greater and greater power. In America, our Founding Fathers were very much aware of this and sought to limit this as much as humanly possible. They wrote the Constitution with the specific intent of limiting what the federal government was authorized to do and what its specifically ennumerated powers were.

Since the day the Constitution was signed into existence, there have been those who have sought means of circumventing those limitations. The Bill of Rights was conceived of as a necessary protection of individual rights, but setting further limits on what the government was permitted to do, but as Alexander Hamilton foresaw, it has since been used as a license to encroach on individual rights and liberties.

In Federalist Paper #84 Hamilton says that by stating exceptions to powers which are not granted to the federal government, you invite the question "If this power is not within the authority of the government, why would they make this exception?"

As Hamilton says, it gives "a colorable pretext to claim more [powers] than were granted."

Everytime a law like this is passed, the American people lose a little bit more of their liberty and it is very disturbing to see so many blithely acquiescing to this steady errosion.

This bill is bad because it allows the government more power to do something it has no constitutional authority to do.

"Give him an inch and he will think he's a ruler." "The thin end of the wedge." "The camel's nose under the tent." "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." These tired old saying exist because they recognize a fundamental truth about governments and the men who run them. Left-Right, it doesn't matter. The less power a government holds, the greater the individual's freedom.

What Benjamin Franklin said about security applies equally to all such legislation.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."
Though the aim of this legislation may be noble and the intentions of those legislators backing it may be of the utmost honor (which I doubt), the price paid is too great.

Triple A+
 

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Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Would not the Defence and general Welfare cover making laws to stop people from stealing property right over the internet. Why couldn't Congress make laws against stealing by use of a computer or internet. That would be covered under general welfare. I think the problems lies in weather they are constructed properly and used correctly. I do think that a good lawyer could find laws we already have to stop this kind of stealing using the internet.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is a federal law enforcement agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security charged with regulating and facilitating international trade, collecting import duties, and enforcing U.S. regulations, including trade, customs and immigration.[1] It has its headquarters in Washington, DC.[2]
While its primary mission is preventing terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, CBP is also responsible for apprehending individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, stemming the flow of illegal drugs and other contraband, protecting United States agricultural and economic interests from harmful pests and diseases, and protecting American businesses from intellectual property theft. I think other contraband will cover contraband over the internet.
 

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Unfortunately, the purpose of the bill is not necessarily about stopping piracy, it's about giving the government more power.
 
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Would not the Defence and general Welfare cover making laws to stop people from stealing property right over the internet. Why couldn't Congress make laws against stealing by use of a computer or internet. That would be covered under general welfare. I think the problems lies in weather they are constructed properly and used correctly. I do think that a good lawyer could find laws we already have to stop this kind of stealing using the internet.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is a federal law enforcement agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security charged with regulating and facilitating international trade, collecting import duties, and enforcing U.S. regulations, including trade, customs and immigration.[1] It has its headquarters in Washington, DC.[2]
While its primary mission is preventing terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, CBP is also responsible for apprehending individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, stemming the flow of illegal drugs and other contraband, protecting United States agricultural and economic interests from harmful pests and diseases, and protecting American businesses from intellectual property theft. I think other contraband will cover contraband over the internet.

try the defense and welfare of the people, not corporations. stop reaching.

Quadruple F-
 

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Hm, this sounds like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, watch the trailer. It's surprising at how similar this situation is.
 

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Under General Welfare covers everybody and corporation.
More Government more control is also worry some to me but I don't know how else it can be done. If some one has a better way of stopping these thieves from using the internet to steal let us all know. Its the Federal Governments duty to protect our borders; which could very easily mean crossing our borders with the internets illegal products.
I'm not reaching any more than lawyers do in front of courts all the time. The abortion debate was used under the Commerce Clause 10 amendment. Many things have been done that way for over a 100 years. What the heck the Commerce Clause has to do with that subject I'm not sure.
We are saying the same thing. There has got to be laws on the books that can stop these thieves without creating new laws. That's what I am trying to show with all those examples. New laws not needed, new directions with the laws we already have.
 

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Under General Welfare covers everybody and corporation.
More Government more control is also worry some to me but I don't know how else it can be done. If some one has a better way of stopping these thieves from using the internet to steal let us all know. Its the Federal Governments duty to protect our borders; which could very easily mean crossing our borders with the internets illegal products.
I'm not reaching any more than lawyers do in front of courts all the time. The abortion debate was used under the Commerce Clause 10 amendment. Many things have been done that way for over a 100 years. What the heck the Commerce Clause has to do with that subject I'm not sure.
We are saying the same thing. There has got to be laws on the books that can stop these thieves without creating new laws. That's what I am trying to show with all those examples. New laws not needed, new directions with the laws we already have.

no it does not. those laws were put in place to protect the people, and only the people.
 

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If you're going to use the Constitution to justify these laws, you would be better advised to use the portion, also under Section 8 of Article 1 (Paragraph 8) which states
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
and Paragraph 10
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies comitted on the high Seas, and Offenses agasing the Law of Nations.
Unfortunately, the internet is not the "high Seas" and copyright infringement is already against the law.

What this law and others like it are attempting to do is to regulate access, through the internet, to web sites and their offending content. The approach being used is another expansion of government power through the already grossly over expanded commerce clause.

The salient question is again, exactly how much of our liberty we are willing to surrender in the advance of the protection of property rights? We have already witnessed a tremendous expansion of the original charge contained in Paragraph 8 of the Constitution. The original authorization was "for a limited time." We have seen over the last century and expansion of that protection beyond the original protective laws.

The original copyright laws covered 14 years with an extension for an additional 14 years if the author survived the first 14 years. With the expansion of copyright coverage from books to all intellectual property, the term under international treaty was expanded to a minimum of 50 years from the date of creation.

So we see that these laws protecting property have been in existence a long time and were considered important as protections of personal property (a concept that was paramount in the minds of the Founding Fathers).

The problem arises not in these protection provisions, but in the means of enforcement which are now being considered. Once one begins to regulate the free traffic of ideas across the internet with the intent of protecting private property, then one has crossed from protecting intellectual property into restricting the free flow of information.

You cannot block access to Pirate Bay without blocking access to the ISP's which link to it. The only legitimate means available that I can see is in the direct prosecution of piraters themselves, meaning those who rip and distribute such material. Unfortunately, with the advent of modern technology, there is no easy solution to this problem.

The use of strong Digital Rights Management and the vigorous prosecution of all who engage in actions intended to defeat DRM seems to be the most legitimate means, but again with advancing technology, even that becomes difficult when so many people are sufficiently technically proficient and capable of circumventing DRM protection.

It seems to me that the best solution would be one similar to that provided by the Itunes paradigm in which all intellectual property becomes available for download at a reasonably affordable cost. In all probability, to be successful, the record companies and film companies would have to settle for pennies on the dollar profits rather than dollars on the dollar profits.

There would also have to be some sort of perpetuity protection under this paradigm so that, should your computer crash or you buy a new system, you would not lose all of the programming material you had purchased.

Too many times DRM has been the source of immense frustration for those who suffer a disk crash or purchase an entirely new system and lose all of the legally downloaded material. Such occurrences inevitably lead to anger and frustration and piracy of intellectual property.

Ther never will be a perfect system, so the primary question remains, the extent to which you are willing to surrender your access rights to protect your property rights.


BTW This is pure opinion and speculation on my part, I AIN'T NO CONSTUTIONAL LAWYER (but then, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once :geek:).
 

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Windows 7Phenom II X4 955 Black Ed. 3.2 GHz (OC'd to 3...4 X 4 GB - GSkill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 (running ...2 X EVGA GTX 460 768MB
Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Self
OS
Windows 7
CPU
Phenom II X4 955 Black Ed. 3.2 GHz (OC'd to 3.74 GHz) AM3
Motherboard
ASUS M5A99x EVO AM3+ UEFI
Memory
4 X 4 GB - GSkill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 (running @ 1241 MHz
Graphics Card(s)
2 X EVGA GTX 460 768MB
Sound Card
Realtek on board
Monitor(s) Displays
Samsung SMS27A350H 27" ; LG-L227WTG 22"
Screen Resolution
1920 X 1080; 1680 X 1050
Hard Drives
2 X WD 1 TB Green - RAID 1
2 X WD 2 TB Green - RAID 1
2 X WD 2 TB Green - RAID 1
PSU
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V v2.2 80 Plus Certified
Case
Cooler Master Storm Scout
Cooling
Xigmatek S-1283 CPU, Case 2 X 140mm, 2 x 120mm
Keyboard
Microsoft Sidewinder X6
Mouse
Logitech wireless wheel
Internet Speed
Cable 20 down, 5 up
Other Info
New Build 3 June 2009
9/30/2011 Replace MB with ASUS M5A99X EVO
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