NON-BSOD Win 7 lockup problem - anyone else?

[UserZero]

About 2 weeks after setting up a new Win 7 x64 Pro (6.1.7600) system from ADK, I started experiencing rare, intermittent lockups, i.e., the system simply stops processing, screen freezes, audio playback stops, no response to keyboard or mouse input, blink-per-second hard drive activity indicator stops. Holding the power button is the only way to shut down / restart.

Out of the ten or fifteen times this has occurred, it's happened more than a few times during Shutdown, i.e., while the final Shutdown screen's activity icon is spinning: it simply stops and the system freezes.

Frequency is once every few days. It has occurred with and without overclocking enabled, before and after a recent BIOS update, before and after installing drivers for a Firewire Audio Interface (PreSonus FireStudio Mobile) and with two different types of GTS250s - ASUS and EVGA - the EVGA seemed to make the problem worse, while also causing significant audio issues.

No BSOD occurs when this happens and there is no reflection in the Event Log, other than "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first" (Event ID 41) after the abortive restart. Also possibly of note - when I still had it installed, the Firewire AI did NOT go into an out-of-sync mode when this occurred.

This is an ASUS P6T SE w/6GB RAM and Core i7 920 CPU; AMI BIOS 0805; ASUS nVidia GTS 250.

I have restored the original factory image to eliminate the possibility of oddball drivers or software causing this. Presently, the system is configured for stock clock with no external hardware devices installed (no Firewire, no USB other than mouse/keyboard). It's overdue for a lockup event, so I'm wondering if it's possible that external hardware - i.e., of any type - is a possible issue here.

Has anyone else seen anything like this with their Win 7 system?

cheers,

U0

 

[TheTeZ]

i havent attempted any overclocking, and i am having the same problems, but i also get bsod's

the only help i got so far says my hard drive is causing the problem due to either drivers, or hardware, i have posted a lot more information, but no responce, it happens quiet often with me, it locks probably 2x a day, and bsod's close to a dozen times.... hopefully we can both find out the solution to our problems...

 

[UserZero]

the only help i got so far says my hard drive is causing the problem due to either drivers, or hardware, ...

How did you discover this?

thanks,

U0

 

[TheTeZ]

well, i also get blue screens, i loaded up the mini dump files to these forums, and some of the fellow users looked through them, does it ever blue screen for you?

 

[UserZero]

some of the fellow users looked through them

Right - but what evidence pointed to your HDD? And what brand/model of HDD is it?

My system has never BSOD'd in the four months I've had it. Only lockups.

U0

 

[TheTeZ]

when others looked through the .dmp file they found it pointed to the hard drive as the cause of the issues, i cant tell you what exactly, since i didnt see the dmp file.

 

[Bill2]

1) This could be a bad driver freezing at shutdown. Boot into safe mode and shutdown from there. Do that a few times and see if the problem persists. Also, in the device manager, try showing the hidden devices and removing all the ones that have the problem icon on them. Also, make sure you dont have a USB device plugged in when shutting down.

2) Type GPEDIT.MSC command at the Run prompt. Navigate to Computer Configuration | Windows Settings | Security Settings | Local Policies | Security Options. Here, locate the Shutdown: Clear Virtual Memory Pagefile option and verify that it is disabled. If it is enabled, disable it by double clicking on the setting and choosing the Disabled option.

3) Go to Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > Performance Information and Tools > Advanced Tools (in the left pane). The problem may be shown here. If not, click View Performance Details in Event Log (Event Viewer). I believe events in the 200 series are shut down events. Double-click them and see if there are any clues.

4) Do you see a lot of networking activity before shutdown? Tweak apps and disable unnecessary services to lighten that.

 

[UserZero]

Thanks for the suggestions, Bill...

1) This could be a bad driver freezing at shutdown. Boot into safe mode and shutdown from there. Do that a few times and see if the problem persists.

This was my thought, but it's looking more and more like a problem with Win7, not any particular piece of hardware or its driver. And it doesn't happen just during shutdown - it also happens randomly both while using the system and while it's idle.

I saw the symptom initially with just a USB phone handset connected; later, with a Firewire device and the handset, later with only the Firewire device (no handset). So far, at stock clock with no hardware connected, it's doing fine. So far.

Anyway, the problem occurs so rarely that this test wouldn't tell me much - 99% of the time it shuts down fine, regardless what's connected to it.

Also, in the device manager, try showing the hidden devices and removing all the ones that have the problem icon on them.

I've been monitoring this since I suspected hardware. To date, I've never seen a device icon with a problem.

Also, make sure you dont have a USB device plugged in when shutting down.

That'll be difficult - both my keyboard and mouse are USB.

Type GPEDIT.MSC command ...

Verified: Clear Virtual Memory Pagefile option was and is still disabled.

Go to Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > Performance Information and Tools > Advanced Tools (in the left pane). The problem may be shown here.

"No issues reported."

If not, click View Performance Details in Event Log (Event Viewer). I believe events in the 200 series are shut down events. Double-click them and see if there are any clues.

There are quite a few 200s, but none provide any information other than the duration (there's a wide range), degradation flag (some true, some false) and event time. The only interesting thing is that I don't seen any 200s since I went back to stock clock. Then again, I haven't restarted or shut down much since doing that. I'll try a few of those to see if any 200s pop up.

Do you see a lot of networking activity before shutdown? Tweak apps and disable unnecessary services to lighten that.

No idea - haven't monitored that.

In terms of disabling unnecessary services, I'd love to see a list. It boggles my mind that my XP Pro SP3 machine runs fine with only 175MB worth of background processes, while Win7 seems to need twice as many background processes and almost a GB worth of processes and services before I even run a single application.

thanks again,

U0

 

[Bill2]

1) Thanks for the detailed reply. Try this MS hotfix.

You cannot make a computer that is running Windows 7 shut down or sleep

2) Make sure the bios and all your drivers are updated.

3) Here is an informative page on your mobo. Try the solutions suggested there.

P6t deluxe wont fully shut down - Asus - Motherboards-Memory

4) If you want to tweak services, go to Blackviper's site. Choose the "Safe" settings. Clicking on each service's hyperlink will give you detailed info about that service. Be careful!

 

[chev65]

How much time did the Op spend researching and or adjusting the memory settings and the bios voltage settings in order to get his non plug and play Asus P6T enthusiast board stable? I highly suggest you start there.

 

[UserZero]

Thanks folks...

Try this MS hotfix.

Thanks! I forwarded that to ADK Support for their thoughts, and they suggest giving it a try: "...it does update the ACPI which overclocking can have issues with". Not sure how relevant that is, since I see this symptom in o/c and stock timing... still...

BIOS and all drivers have been checked and re-checked for latest versions. I'll check out the P6T page, though at first glance it looks like a slightly different problem. I'll also check out Blackviper - maybe there's some discussion there on why 'superior' Win7's memory footprint is 5-6 times bigger than XP. Thanks!!

How much time did the Op spend researching and or adjusting the memory settings and the bios voltage settings in order to get his non plug and play Asus P6T enthusiast board stable? I highly suggest you start there.

This is a mobo selected by ADK and optimized by them for overclocked DAW operation. The configuration is standard for them, so I can't speak directly to how much time they've spent characterizing the board.

That said, while troubleshooting this problem over the last month, ADK Tech Support and I have tried a number of timing and voltage settings and none has had any verifiable effect on the lockup symptom - it has occurred with both stock and o/c settings.

As shipped, the BIOS was apparently flaky for o/c, but an upgrade to the latest BIOS appears to have resolved that issue. That change had no effect on the lockup symptom, which occurred both before and after the BIOS update with both o/c and stock timings.


U0

 

[fseal]

I had this /exact/ same problem. The key is that the HD light comes on and stays on during the event.

Is that correct in your situation?

If so then yes the problem is related to the HD or SATA drivers. Windows is trying to get something of the HD but has stalled. One by one as various parts of the system also need data from the HD they stall too producing an entire system stall after a few seconds/minutes. (Nouse is ususally the last thing to stop working)

In my particular case it was because I was using an SSD and the Native Command Queing feature of the sata drinver was causing the drive/driver to go FUBAR.

I disabled the NCQ option on the sata port properties for my SSD drive and it fixed it. But also updating to the latest Intel matrix storage drivers (if using an intel chipset based MB) or to the motherboard manufacturers latest storage drivers may fix it as well.

NCQ is mainly a rotating drive feature, allowing the drive to stack up multiple requests for data, then return data in an order that most favors moving the head the least amount of distance. It actually sped up my SSD a little but but had the odd effect of making the Windows Experience Index program refuse to rate the HD after that :/ (Like I was "cheating" or something? )

 

[UserZero]

I had this /exact/ same problem. The key is that the HD light comes on and stays on during the event. Is that correct in your situation?

No. Normally the HDD activity light blinks on once each second. That activity stops when a lockup occurs, and the HDD light is off.

 

[fseal]

Well HD light off lessens the chance that this is same the problem, but you could try disabling the NCQ option "for fun". If it doesn't work turn it back on...

Otherwise it would most likely still be some hardware driver. Some resource that the entire system depends on and will block on if it goes out to lunch. After the storage driver update. I'd remove any piece of non essential hardware, like remove everything from any USB port (minut mouse and KB). Disable the sound card, maybe even the network card. See if anything like that stops it...

 

[UserZero]

Thanks. If the symptom starts occurring frequently enough, I'll give that a try. As it is, I only see it every few days, on average, so it's difficult and very time-consuming to 'test' any changes; hard to know how long to wait before assuming things are 'fine'.

At least now I have a list of things to try if I do see it again.

cheers!

U0

 

[UserZero]

Something new I found on this, in case anyone's interested.

U0

 

[chev65]

Thanks folks...

Try this MS hotfix.

Thanks! I forwarded that to ADK Support for their thoughts, and they suggest giving it a try: "...it does update the ACPI which overclocking can have issues with". Not sure how relevant that is, since I see this symptom in o/c and stock timing... still...

BIOS and all drivers have been checked and re-checked for latest versions. I'll check out the P6T page, though at first glance it looks like a slightly different problem. I'll also check out Blackviper - maybe there's some discussion there on why 'superior' Win7's memory footprint is 5-6 times bigger than XP. Thanks!!

How much time did the Op spend researching and or adjusting the memory settings and the bios voltage settings in order to get his non plug and play Asus P6T enthusiast board stable? I highly suggest you start there.

This is a mobo selected by ADK and optimized by them for overclocked DAW operation. The configuration is standard for them, so I can't speak directly to how much time they've spent characterizing the board.

That said, while troubleshooting this problem over the last month, ADK Tech Support and I have tried a number of timing and voltage settings and none has had any verifiable effect on the lockup symptom - it has occurred with both stock and o/c settings.

As shipped, the BIOS was apparently flaky for o/c, but an upgrade to the latest BIOS appears to have resolved that issue. That change had no effect on the lockup symptom, which occurred both before and after the BIOS update with both o/c and stock timings.


U0

Regardless of what ADK may have tried these types of random freezing problems are usually caused by incorrect values set in the bios or simply bad hardware. I've dusted off those so called techs so many times I've lost count, so no offence but I don't trust any of them to do the job correctly. I'd have to look at your bios settings in order to make the correct adjustments.

 

[lordstyx]

I had this /exact/ same problem. The key is that the HD light comes on and stays on during the event.

Is that correct in your situation?

If so then yes the problem is related to the HD or SATA drivers. Windows is trying to get something of the HD but has stalled. One by one as various parts of the system also need data from the HD they stall too producing an entire system stall after a few seconds/minutes. (Nouse is ususally the last thing to stop working)

I have exactly this. I don't really know what driver I should look for though, because my disks are set up in RAID 5.

Btw, in safe mode it doesn't get stuck


[edit]
Found the problem, it had to do with my wireless LAN card. I think it was some utility that was installed along with the drivers, not sure though.