Preparing for x86 Vista > x64 Win7 upgrade

[ceejay]

This is doing my head in a bit :huh:

I plan to upgrade from Windows Vista Home Premium x86 to Windows Seven Home Premium x64 when it is released. However, I only want to pay for an upgrade licence, NOT a full price version.

My current version of Vista Home Premium is itself an upgrade from the original OEM copy of XP that came on my PC.

There are two ways as far as I can see:

i) Vista Home Premium x86 > Vista Home Premium x64 > Windows 7 Home Premium x64 (first stage done using an alternate media which I have just paid GBP 7 to be delivered shortly.

ii) Vista Home Premium x86 > Windows 7 Home Premium x86 > Windows 7 Home Premium x64 (first stage using an x86 retail upgrade, second stage using alternate media obtained after buying the retail x86 package).

However, looking at the following article:
Installation choices for 64-bit consumer versions of Windows Vista

it reveals that the steps are likely to be even more complex. For example, my option i) becomes:

• Uninstall Vista altogether
• Reinstall my original Dell x86 copy of XP Home Edition.
• Use the Vista alternative media to do an upgrade installation of Vista Home Premium x64.
• Then do an upgrade installation of Windows x64 on top of that.

Extremely messy, and almost certain to end in tears!

It would be nice if MS took the opportunity to provide a straightforward upgrade path from x86 to x64 this time around; until we know the upgrade options no one knows for sure I guess. However, does anyone know or suspect an easier method?

For example, with my x86 copy of Vista Home Premium in situ, could I install a clean copy of Vista Home Premium x64 on another partition by booting from the DVD, and then just do an upgrade install of Windows 7 x64 when it become available?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

I've been through all this rigmarole and it
(can't say it in English or the post will get deleted
but think of Bovine scatology or dogs little round objects)

raunverulegur dogs miðdegisverður af a sóðaskapur

Sometimes you wonder have these bozos at microsoft ever actually used a computer when you see the sort of rigmarole you have to do to upgrade an OS.


The problem with the alternative media is that although it forces you to do a CLEAN install you have to have the VISTA 32 system on your computer when you start the install -- even though you boot from the x-64 version DVD and it will wipe the OS from your Disk.

Don't Format the HD and do a clean install with the 64 bit alternative media --if you do when you try and activate windows you'll get a nice message saying - this copy of Windows can only be activated via an UPGRADE !!!!!
even though you can't run the setup.exe from Vista x-86.

And of course if it goes wrong and you've deleted your x-86 Vista version you can't re-install that again either -- guess why -- same reason --This is an Upgrade version of Vista -- round and round we go.

I gave up trying to explain this to some call center guy in India who obviously was reading from a prepared script and was just going round in circles
-- so I just said "red quote as above", slammed down the phone (and broke it), polished off 3 glasses of strong neat scotch , downloaded a "Torrent" X-64 bit version of Vista and then "legalized" it by "Upgrading" using my retail legal copy.

So here's how to avoid this mess.

1) before starting TAKE BACKUPS -- I was younger and less experienced then but even though it takes a bit longer always have backups. Disk storage is CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.

2) Install a 2nd copy of Vista-x-86 on another partition so you can dual boot either Vista system.

3) now insert your Vista X-64 disk and do a "clean install" on one of the Vista systems. You must let the install program delete / re-arrange the partition it's installing on. Don't format or anything.

4) delete the windows.old file when the new x-64 system boots up.

5) activate windows

job done -- now install software.

You should have both windows systems avialable.

Use the X-64 system to upgrade to w7 X-64.

Cheers and hoping you don't waste agaes making the same mistakes I did -- and it's absolutely NO fun speaking to an Indian call center where they haven't a CLUE about what you are trying to do.

Cheers

jimbo

jimbo

 

[SIW2]

HI ceejay,

Yes , you could install Vista x64 on another partition and then upgrade that to 7 x64.

Not sure why you would want to, though. The new Vista x64 won't have all your data and settings, so there's no advantage to it.

You could just make another partition and install 7 x64 directly onto that - same thing, one step less.

Hope it helps

SIW2

 

[ceejay]

Thanks for this - much appreciated!

I had hoped that it was possible to change from Vista x86 to x64, which is why I ordered the alternative media tonight. But I read that Knowledgebase article after I had placed the order and it confused me when it said that you had to start from XP again!

Also agree about the Indian 'support centre' - I'll never bother again. All the info you'll ever need is available on the net, and I'm sure that all the Indian guys do is search through Knowledgebase anyway.

 

[ceejay]

HI ceejay,

Yes , you could install Vista x64 on another partition and then upgrade that to 7 x64.

Not sure why you would want to, though. The new Vista x64 won't have all your data and settings, so there's no advantage to it.

You could just make another partition and install 7 x64 directly onto that - same thing, one step less.

Hope it helps

SIW2

SIW2,

That would be even better. However, we must remember that our current experiences with Win7 beta may not apply in the 'real world' of upgrade editions.

Yes - with Win7 beta you can install on a fresh partition as it is a 'full install' version. But Upgrade versions I have bought in the past (e.g. XP to Vista) require you overwrite an existing install.

This is why I am preparing the ground now.

 

[SIW2]

Hi ceejay,

Yes , going from x86 to x64 isn't an upgrade in the technical sense -it requires a clean install.

If necessary, I believe you will be able to do this with 7 also : (where 7x64 sees itself as a qualifying version of windows for the upgrade)

Clean Install From Upgrade Vista - Vista Forums

You would still need to install your apps. and transfer the data across from your Vista x86 installation.

Hope it helps.

 

[ceejay]

SIW2,

I hope this will be true, and will hold off the Vista X64 install until Win7 X64 Upgrade is available to purchase.

However, I have read that the Win7 upgrade path may only be x86 > x86, and x64 > x64. Therefore an upgrade copy of Win7 x64 may not see a Vista x86 partition as a qualifying pre-requisite. Hence I am hedging my bets by getting the Vista x64 upgrade media.

 

[SIW2]

Pretty sure 7 x64 will see itself as a qualifying install, if you do the double install described in the tutorial - that's exactly what Vista does.

I will wait till I see the pricing - may be that a system builder (confusingly also called oem ) dvd will the best value.

With the system builder dvd - the dvd itself is identical to the retail one. The product key is slightly different - you can reinstall as often as you like - but it can only ever be on the same machine. The retail product key allows you to take it off that machine and install on a different one - only one at a time, though.

 

[jimbo45]

HI ceejay,

Yes , you could install Vista x64 on another partition and then upgrade that to 7 x64.

Not sure why you would want to, though. The new Vista x64 won't have all your data and settings, so there's no advantage to it.

You could just make another partition and install 7 x64 directly onto that - same thing, one step less.

Hope it helps

SIW2

Hi there -- the reason for the VISTA install of course is that the OP wants to be able to buy the UPGRADE version of W7 when released as it will be considerably cheaper than the NEW version -- this means that it will need an existing version of (presumably VISTA unless they sort the XP upgrade path out) .

By having a clean install of VISTA and then upgrading directly is the nearest thing to a "Brand new clean install of W7").

If you go this route I'd add updates and SP2 to vista but DON'T ADD ANY APPS ON THE VISTA SYSTEM before upgrading to W7. (You've still got the X-86 one on your other partition for running stuff until everything gets worked out).


I doubt if Microsoft will allow "Upgrades" from the Beta / official RC1 versions of W7 at the "Upgrade Price".

I can see it now --all those who never took backups of their VISTA systems especially those who never had Install disks with their machines are going to be in trouble when installing W7 -- they are all going to have to get NEW (not UPGRADE) copies of W7 when the time comes. Now I'm laughing enjoying great coffee and a "Greasy Warm English Breakfast trying to avoid "The Food Police".

This will of course get the "torrents" busy again -- but we don't discuss that here do we ?.

O.T But while I'm enjoying my Greasy Breakfast .

One of the best things temporarily working in the UK is (apart from "footie" and their pubs) is the great English Breakfast -- but -- to any English colleagues reading this -- why is it always taken in the UK that if you are enjoying yourself you must be doing something wrong and there's always "killjoys" out there usually people on highly paying Government "Non Jobs" trying to stop you -- the latest "Booze price hike debate is typical -- but in Is you can pay 8 or 9 GBP for 500 Ml of beer in some places so its still cheap for me).



Cheers
jimbo

 

[SIW2]

Hi Jimbo,

Sorry if my posts were not clear. I was talking about the upgrade dvd.

It is not possible to do an upgrade from x86 to x64 - it has to be a clean install. You can get an upgrade price if you already have a qualifying install, however.

M$ has deliberately built in the ability to install from the upgrade dvd alone.

This was newly introduced with Vista - was not available with previous o/s - so you may not have come across it before.

This is to help customers who, as you say, do not have the correct bit version installed, whose systems have crashed, who don't have the original install media, etc.

It is explained in the tutorial

Clean Install From Upgrade Vista - Vista Forums

So, ceejay does not need to get hold of a Vista x64 dvd first .

[Unless M$ change what they have done with Vista and with the 7 builds so far - doubt it as this ability is very well received]

Currently ( with Vista) there is little price difference between an upgrade , or a system builder dvd and licence. I know which I would rather have.

7 pricing may be different - at least initially. I suspect M$ may offer very good "upgrade" prices to tempt people to shift from their existing XP or Vista systems, which most people are happy with.

I hope so.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there -- My answer probably was not clear either.

Whilst you CAN'T UPGRADE to X-64 from the X-86 version -- to use the 64 Bit Upgrade DVD from the X-86 system you still HAVE TO HAVE THE X-86 version INSTALLED.

You then boot the 64 bit OS install from the DVD and choose CUSTOM whereupon it does a NEW / Clean install.

It obviously saves a file somewhere since if you format your Disk or mess around deleting partitins at the custom Install time you will get a message when you try and activate the OS saying

Activation failed as this is an UPGRADE product.

If you DON'T delete the original 32 bit OS then it all works and activation is fine. You can then delete the WINDOWS.OLD file it creates.

I didn't mean that you could directly upgrade x-86 to x-64 -- but you DO need to have it installed on your system in order to use the upgrade DVD rather than purchase a full new retail copy.

VISTA ULTIMATE Upgrade copies usually contained only the 32 bit OS -- you had to send off for the "Supplemental Media" containing the 64 bit version -- usually only cost a few dollars -- around 5 or so. The same key worked as with your X-86 version.

Sorry if I was mis-understood -- my post is for people who've got VISTA -X-86 ultimate via an upgrade DVD already installed and want to switch to the 64 bit version without paying for a new License (as they are entitled to have the 64 bit version as well even though it's not in the standard retail box).

If they want to go from XP to 64 bit VISTA via upgrade DVD's they will HAVE to install the X-86 version first or bite the bullet and pay for a NEW (non upgrade) version of Vista.


Cheers
jimbo

 

[SIW2]

Hi Jimbo,

Thanks for the reply.

my post is for people who've got VISTA -X-86 ultimate via an upgrade DVD already installed and want to switch to the 64 bit version without paying for a new License

I was posting about upgrading from regular Vista x86 install to 7 x64 using the upgrade dvd - without having to go to the trouble of getting hold of a Vista x64 dvd first.

 

[ceejay]

It looks like we're all on the same page now

In summary I'm going to wait to get hold of the x64 upgrade SKU of Windows 7 Home Premium and then try a fresh install on a second partition (probably to directly replace the current Build 7000 Beta install). The presence of my existing x86 install of Vista Home Premium on the current systems partition should be sufficient to enable the install.

The one question remaining is whether I will be able to buy x64 Upgrade media directly from a retailer, or whether I'm going to have to buy the x86 upgrade version and go through the same process of ordering alternate media again (the delay of which I am sure will irritate me when the time comes).

I suppose I could try a download purchase of the x64 version direct from the Windows store this time, but I do like the idea of having an original Windows DVD rather than burning a copy.

Wonder how long until Windows 7 pops up on Amazon for pre-order. That's usually when we find out the SKU's / Prices........