Question about mixing RAM

[okami 11x]

So I was just curious how much of a loss of performance or how much instability would increase if I mixed two different brands (two different Cas Latencies) in my build?

Right now I have this one:
Newegg.com - G.SKILL 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9S-2GBNT
Cas Latency/Timing - 9-9-9-24

But I was thinking of picking up this one:
2.0 GB Super Talent DDR3 PC3-10600 1333Mhz 240-Pin Memory with Black Heatsink (W1333UB2G8/WA133UB2G8) - DDR3 1333MHz (PC3-10600)
Cas Latency/Timing - 8-8-8-24

both same voltage (1.5V)

I've read that it isn't suggested but the threads that said that were 5 years old (google searched) so is that still the case? should I just go and buy the ones online instead of heading to the computer store later this afternoon?

 

[okami 11x]

oh and then I was just curious also about two of the slots on my mobo...

it says I can overclock to 1800mhz in those two slots but what about the other two slots? can they be used with slower speeds and not mess up the computer?

also, I'd like to know how to install that 1800mhz...do I need to buy that speed or do I need to buy a 1333mhz (fastest my mobo states besides the 1800 (OC)) and overclock it to 1800?

and if I overclock it, I'll probably be wanting sticks of memory that have heatsinks, right?

 

[profdlp]

Mixing memory is always a crapshoot. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes not at all, sometimes it's pretty much OK with random problems here and there. You takes your chances and gets what you gets.

...it says I can overclock to 1800mhz in those two slots but what about the other two slots? can they be used with slower speeds and not mess up the computer?

That's a new one on me. Two high-speed and two low-speed slots on the same board?

also, I'd like to know how to install that 1800mhz...do I need to buy that speed or do I need to buy a 1333mhz (fastest my mobo states besides the 1800 (OC)) and overclock it to 1800?

It's letting you use RAM rated higher than the stock speed of the FSB. This gives you room for a little more overclocking. If you're mixing RAM you'll likely find that the faster pair has to slow down for the slower pair. (See the first sentence in this post.)

Keep in mind that RAM (and CPU's, for that matter) are manufactured in batches. After they are made they are tested. The higher rated parts get sold as higher-specced parts and the slackers as low-grade parts. If yields are good (meaning that a high percentage of the parts test well) the manufacturer may mark some of them as lower-specced parts for marketing purposes just so they have some to sell. For instance, if you've ever seen hobbyists raving about a certain stepping of a CPU it probably means that many of them are marked lower than their true capability and are great overclockers. RAM is often the same way, as are video cards.

You can't count on anything other than that the part will run at the speed at which it is rated. If you can squeeze a little (or a lot) more out of it, great.

and if I overclock it, I'll probably be wanting sticks of memory that have heatsinks, right?

Most RAM does nowadays. If it doesn't, you can get add-on heatspreaders, though you often might as well have paid for better RAM to begin with.

 

[okami 11x]

That's a new one on me. Two high-speed and two low-speed slots on the same board?

I could just be confused myself. If that's not something that's been heard of before, then I probably just messed up reading the specs.

So I think I'll just wait and get the same memory.

However, I did just realize I have this memory on my wishlist on Newegg

Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL

It has the same specs except for one small detail. On the Timing, it's 9-9-9-24-2N
What does the 2N mean? it's not on the memory I have now so would these two be compatible?

Oh and I've heard people saying don't mix RAM sticks with different sizes (i.e. 1 stick of 2gb and 1 stick of 4gb) because the larger size is brought down by the smaller one. Is that true? or can I just order a 4gb stick in the future and slap it down in the case? And if it's fine, can I dual channel two different sizes or do they have to be exactly the same?

sorry for all the questions, I'm just a n00b when it comes to RAM since I always thought that RAM was RAM

 

[okami 11x]

another question lol

which number is better for timings/CL? a higher or lower? (i.e. 4-4-4-12 vs. 9-9-9-24)

 

[profdlp]

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Found this note on the spec sheet for your board:
[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica]
(Note 2) To reach DDR3 1800MHz or above, you must install two memory modules and install them in the DDR3_3 and DDR3_4 memory sockets.[/FONT]

I think it's due to the limitations of the chipset and has to do with the same thing in the next part about 1T and 2T. Basically, the chipset is limited in data paths and will run all the RAM slower if using more than two slots.

...It has the same specs except for one small detail. On the Timing, it's 9-9-9-24-2N
What does the 2N mean?...

That's the command rate, meaning the time it takes to send a signal to the memory module. If you've poked around in your BIOS you may have seen a RAM timing setting like 1T and 2T. The "N" is the same thing. My last AMD system required you to run at 2T if using more than one pair of sticks in any case.

Oh and I've heard people saying don't mix RAM sticks with different sizes (i.e. 1 stick of 2gb and 1 stick of 4gb) because the larger size is brought down by the smaller one. Is that true? or can I just order a 4gb stick in the future and slap it down in the case? And if it's fine, can I dual channel two different sizes or do they have to be exactly the same?

You'll lose the Dual-Channel capability if you use mismatched pairs in the wrong slots. I won't promise you it's true in all cases (because I don't know... ), but I have a system with a pair of 512MB sticks and another pair of 256MB sticks running in Dual-Channel just fine.

sorry for all the questions, I'm just a n00b when it comes to RAM since I always thought that RAM was RAM

Questions are fine, asking them is how the experts became experts. You are well on your way yourself.

PS: Saw your last question as I was typing this. Lower numbers are better.

 

[Wishmaster]

It simply means the board can handle the RAM up to 1800Mhz in speed. When you populate all the slots, its a bit more stress and you may only be able to reach say 1600 or. This depends greatly on the board though.


As far as 2 differnt types of RAM it will default to the slowest speed/timings.

For Example:
Lets say you have 2 slots with 1066 CAS 5 RAM.
If you were to Put in 667 CAS 6 in the other 2 slots,

ALL of the RAM will deafult to CAS6 at 667 speeds.


I wouldnt advise mixing and matching RAM. True, sometimes you can get it to work, But in general its not really a good idea.
Even though the basic specs, (speed, latency, voltage) all look the same, theres many smaller sub timings etc that could be quite differnt, depending on the type of RAM it is.

 

[okami 11x]

Basically, the chipset is limited in data paths and will run all the RAM slower if using more than two slots.

So basically, if I use all four slots, my RAM will run slower than if I only used 2 slots?

You'll lose the Dual-Channel capability if you use mismatched pairs in the wrong slots.

so I have 2 blue slots and 2 white slots (I assume that's to make it easier to spot which ones can do Dual Channel together), but if I put a 2gb stick in one of the blues, and a 4gb stick in the other blue, there isn't going to be a dual channel then, if I understand correctly. It will run the same as if I put the 2gb stick in a blue and the 4gb stick in a white, no?

PS: Saw your last question as I was typing this. Lower numbers are better.

That's what I assumed I just wanted to know for sure


So as my mobo was advertised, can all of my slots be overclocked to 1800+ (as it says directly on the mobo)? and do I just buy 1333 and oc it to 1800? or do I buy 1800? (my gut is that if I bought 1800, it wouldn't work)

oh and I'll make sure to keep asking the questions

 

[okami 11x]

I wouldnt advise mixing and matching RAM. True, sometimes you can get it to work, But in general its not really a good idea.
Even though the basic specs, (speed, latency, voltage) all look the same, theres many smaller sub timings etc that could be quite differnt, depending on the type of RAM it is.

so even though I'd be buying the same brand but different model and all the basic specs are the same, you'd suggest not mixing them then?

so basically it'd be better to just put the 4gb ripjaw I posted earlier by itself then having the one I have in my system right now plus the ripjaw?

 

[profdlp]

So basically, if I use all four slots, my RAM will run slower than if I only used 2 slots?

Wishmaster put it better than I did. More sticks equals more stress on the system, meaning less chance of higher speed.

so I have 2 blue slots and 2 white slots (I assume that's to make it easier to spot which ones can do Dual Channel together), but if I put a 2gb stick in one of the blues, and a 4gb stick in the other blue, there isn't going to be a dual channel then, if I understand correctly. It will run the same as if I put the 2gb stick in a blue and the 4gb stick in a white, no?

Check in the manual for which slots are paired, it's not always obvious by color code.

do I just buy 1333 and oc it to 1800? or do I buy 1800? (my gut is that if I bought 1800, it wouldn't work)

Higher-rated RAM will work at a lower speed if necessary. I wouldn't count on getting 1333 to run at 1800. If the 1333 was able to run at 1800, chances are the manufacturer would sell it at that speed for a higher price. (Go back and read what I mentioned before about "batches".)

As Wishmaster reminded you, see the first line I wrote in Post #3. Mismatched RAM is a crapshoot. If you want to be as sure as possible that it's going to work you might want to just get two new sticks at a higher capacity. Your specs say you have 2GB now. The sticks you linked to are 4GB each. I'd think that 8GB total would set you up quite nicely.

EDIT: Just saw your last post. If you get the two 4GB sticks you can always try all four sticks together. If it doesn't work just yank the old ones out. I don't think you'll see any difference between 8GB and 10GB either way.

 

[Wishmaster]

Well, not all RAM can OC as well as others.
RAM is also much easier to kill OCing it than, say the CPU.
As with any hardware, when it comes to OCing, you can't expect the same results as others even if it the same identical part.

Having said that, the faster RAm will happily run at a lower speed. possibly even slightly tighter timings.

So if you were to get 1800mhz RAM, the sticks themselves are guarnteed to runn at that speed/timings.

Even though your MOBO may or may not run all the DIMM slots populated at that speed.

You can still run them at a slower speed, (IE 1600) and have alot more OC headroom for the rest of the system.

If you plan on OCing, IMHO youd be better off getting the faster RAm, setting it slower and start OCing. As opposed to getting just what you need and hope it will make it to your goal.

Bottom line, dont expect huge OCing results from the RAm, and dont try to push it to hard.

 

[okami 11x]

Alright thanks to both of you!! I'm just a little thickheaded so I have to drill it into my head a couple times.

The way I understand it is that it's best to buy the exact same brand/model as what you have for best performance. If I'm upgrading with a stick of the 4gb ripjaw I linked A) it might work better if I didn't use the 2gb stick with it since it's not the same model and B) I will not be able to dual channel those two stick together since they aren't the same size.

My OC questions stem from my mobo specs on Newegg.

Memory Standard :: DDR3 1800 (OC)/1333/ 1066/ 800

I just don't understand why the 1800 has "(OC)" by it.

I don't really plan on OCing RAM since I don't understand it at all and I don't want to ruin anything.

 

[Wishmaster]

Memory Standard :: DDR3 1800 (OC)/1333/ 1066/ 800

This means that officially the board supports up DDR3 1333.

But, it can handle up 1800mhz (although perhaps not with all the DIMMS full)

So if you plan on populating all the DIMM slots, you may need to go with DDR3 1333.

With just half the slots full, you should be able to run 1600 or 1800 RAM.

But keep in mind, this is a MOBO limitation.
So if you had 1600 RAM, and it can not run at those speeds with all slots full, you can simply set it to run at 1333.

All I meant in my prev. post is that, downclocking (or running slower than advertised) will always work. Making it run faster, not so much.

If you do not plan on any OCing just go with 1333 or 1600.

 

[okami 11x]

Alright, thank you Wishmaster and Profdlp! I will have to ponder this one. Cuz I think eventually I want to populate all the DIMM slots (otherwise, why did I make sure to get a mobo with 4 slots?). I'll just have to research whether it's more beneficial to have 2 slots of 1800 memory or 4 slots of 1333.

I'm sorry if this is just another way of asking what I already asked but if I have two slots of 1800 dual channeled together, could I just populate the other two slots with 1333 dual channeled and not lose the speed of the 1800?

 

[Wishmaster]

Alright, thank you Wishmaster and Profdlp! I will have to ponder this one. Cuz I think eventually I want to populate all the DIMM slots (otherwise, why did I make sure to get a mobo with 4 slots?). I'll just have to research whether it's more beneficial to have 2 slots of 1800 memory or 4 slots of 1333.

I'm sorry if this is just another way of asking what I already asked but if I have two slots of 1800 dual channeled together, could I just populate the other two slots with 1333 dual channeled and not lose the speed of the 1800?

You would be best populating the other 2 with the exact same kind as the first 2.
Worse case scenario, youll need to run it slower.

 

[okami 11x]

You would be best populating the other 2 with the exact same kind as the first 2.
Worse case scenario, youll need to run it slower.

alright thanks!

I think I got everything answered lol

 

[profdlp]

...I just don't understand why the 1800 has "(OC)" by it...

The specification for that socket calls for a max of 1600 for the RAM speed. They're just letting you know that their board will handle a slight overclock (OC) of the memory speed, assuming your RAM is fast enough to handle it.

Computers are put together out of a large number of parts mad by many different manufacturers. Just so they are all working on the same page the major companies get together and define a certain set of standards. This is done years in advance and allows all the different parties involved to design parts that will work well together during the same general time frame. For example, it wouldn't do any good to design a CPU with a 1000MHz Front Side Bus if there were no motherboards or memory sticks to support it.

Where this gets interesting is when manufacturers know that people are going to want to push their hardware beyond the specification. I have a Core i7 system with a locked multiplier on the CPU. (I couldn't afford to spring $1,000 for the unlocked CPU... )

The only way I can go beyond the 2.67GHz my Core i7 920 CPU can handle is to boost the system bus. (Yeah, I know - Core i7 does this sort of "differently".) My CPU runs at a multiplier of 20X at a system speed of 133MHz. 20 X 133MHz = 2667MHz, or 2.67GHz.

I can crank up that 133MHz number fairly easily because I have memory rated at 1800MHz, not just the 1600MHz called for in the specification. (Memory has an added multiplier involved, which is due to the DDR - Double Data Rate - way they measure its speed.)

1800 is 1/8 faster than 1600 (200/1600 = 1/8). This all boils down to being able to boost my system speed by 1/8 without having the RAM limit me.

 

[okami 11x]

so I'm getting a little confused here...

The specification for that socket calls for a max of 1600 for the RAM speed.

Does that mean that I cannot use 1800 mem in my motherboard? I would have to use 1600 then OC to 1800 correct? Even though it's not listed on Newegg, can I use 1600 in my build? or is 1333 the best I can get?

I do understand, though, that you're saying that OCing the mem from 1600 to 1800 boosts your speed of your computer. I'm just trying to figure out what my mobo can handle and I don't know how to go about that.

 

[profdlp]

...Does that mean that I cannot use 1800 mem in my motherboard? I would have to use 1600 then OC to 1800 correct?

If you run 1800 rated memory at 1800 then the memory is not being overclocked.

Even though it's not listed on Newegg, can I use 1600 in my build? or is 1333 the best I can get?.

Get anything up to 1800 and you are fine. Get less than 1800 and it will work, just probably not faster than what it's rated for. (i.e., 1600 will run at 1600, 1333 will run at 1333.)

 

[okami 11x]

ahh ok...so even though it says 1800 (OC) it really just means that I can use up to 1800

makes sense and thanks for sticking through all my thickheadedness lol